29-06-2002 06:59									#31
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Evolution is a fact, but some people try to use it to extrapolate several things which are better left to scientific discovery in due time.

On the other hand, I can tolerate atheists who have ARGUMENTS to back them up...same thing with Christians.

	29-06-2002 07:00									#32
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Vlad, 95% of the Greek population are Orthodox Christians. I've never met a Greek that takes the Bible literally and i would consider it a miracle if one could find an article in a newspaper or magazine against evolution

	29-06-2002 07:08									#33
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Why try to convert christians/other non-atheists to atheism? While I don't actually do it often (I prefer just shooting down religicists' arguments whenever I see them), I would have a few good reasons:

- intellectual exercise: since these discussions generally tend to be initiated by theists and the same arguments are almost always used, it would be great to find an argument against theism that hasn't yet been thought up by anyone
- troll: since it's not done often, it would be fun to see their answers
- understanding: for situations where I need to apply Macchiavellist principles to a theist, I need to be able to think like one. Therefore, I need to have discussions with them
- boost of the intellectual ego

	29-06-2002 07:30									#34
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The question was not trying to convert believers to atheism, but christians to evolution.

	29-06-2002 08:29									#35
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I have no urge to make any Christian "believe" that evolution is the origin of biological diversity on Earth. I simply wish to drive it through the thick skull of most Creationists that scientific evidence points toward this conclusion, and therefore arguments for Creationism must be considered as based on faith (thus are unsuitable to teach in a public classroom).

	29-06-2002 08:52									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Like when?

Atheists do things like walk into a high school in Paducah, Kentucky and open fire on a youth prayer group.

Atheists do things like walk into a high school in Columbine, Colorado and blow a girl's head off with a shotgun when she refuses to recant her faith.

Atheists do things like walk into a Baptist church in Atlanta, Georgia and open fire on a choir practice.

	29-06-2002 08:55									#37
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This is hilarious.

A couple of Creationists showed up and started flamebaiting. A couple of stoopid Creationists too, lacking any skill or talent in the area. Go home before you two are taunted mercilessly


monkspider,

Speciation due to evolution is a fact.

	29-06-2002 08:57									#38
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Shall I post an equally tiresome listing of crimes committed by Christians, Dr. Strangelove?

Honestly, weren't any of you taught by your mother not to debate religion with people? It's rude and hopelessly futile.

	29-06-2002 08:58									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Atheists do things like walk into a high school in Paducah, Kentucky and open fire on a youth prayer group. Atheists do things like walk into a high school in Columbine, Colorado and blow a girl's head off with a shotgun when she refuses to recant her faith. Atheists do things like walk into a Baptist church in Atlanta, Georgia and open fire on a choir practice.

I don't know about the other two, but the two HS teenagers involved in the Columbine shootings certainly did not shoot their victims because they were Christians. This is a crass distortion of the facts.

quote: The fullest account of the new evidence appears in the Denver Rocky Mountain News (September 24, 1999, 5A). The only eyewitness, Emily Wyant, 16, reports that she and Cassie, 17, were alone, studying together in the back of the library, and that she hid with her under the table when the shooting began. At that point, Cassie began praying out loud. According to Emily, "She was saying, 'Dear God. Dear God. Why is this happening? I just want to go home,'." Emily hushed her, saying "I know. We all want to get out of here." Emily believes that Cassie's loud praying may have drawn the gunman to them (they were, after all, all the way in the back). As the Denver Rocky Mountain News reports, "All of a sudden, [Dylan Klebold] slammed the top of their table, said 'Peekaboo,' and looked under the table at both girls." Emily says he immediately looked at Cassie and shot her, without any words exchanged. Then he turned to Emily, but was suddenly called away by Eric Harris, Klebold's accomplice. As Emily heard him, Harris said to Klebold "Hey, there's a n----- over here."' The two of them then shot to death Isaiah Shoels, a young black teen.

	29-06-2002 09:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Atheists do things like walk into a high school in Paducah, Kentucky and open fire on a youth prayer group. Atheists do things like walk into a high school in Columbine, Colorado and blow a girl's head off with a shotgun when she refuses to recant her faith. Atheists do things like walk into a Baptist church in Atlanta, Georgia and open fire on a choir practice.

You're confusing atheist with rebellous, troubled youth.

At least the first two were done not because of atheism, but because they were f*cked up kids.

I'm not sure about the last one, I've not heard anything about it.

	29-06-2002 09:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Exhibit A: How many atheists spread messages like that?

How many Christians do? I certainly don't.

	29-06-2002 09:28									#42
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous How many Christians do? I certainly don't.

Obviously not all, or even most, do it.

But life in North America is so ladden with Christian overtones in everything we do, it can get annoying pretty fast. Top that off with the public-whacko-protests like the people in the picture and many non-Christians are not happy campers.

Most atheists/agnostics don't care either way, though.

	29-06-2002 09:28									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil The question was not trying to convert believers to atheism, but christians to evolution.

Although there is a difference (and it is a big difference), it usually tends to be ignored in this kind of threads, and I don't care to make the distinction.

	29-06-2002 09:30									#44
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Im atheist and I don't care what other people think. when people start preaching around me about thier religion or about how right atheist are I just walk away or tell them to shut up because I don't care.

	29-06-2002 09:30									#45
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You should, though. Why let the flamebaiters muddy the water?

	29-06-2002 09:31									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us Im atheist and I don't care what other people think. when people start preaching around me about thier religion or about how right atheist are I just walk away or tell them to shut up because I don't care.

I think that's agnostic more than atheist.

Agnostics rule.

	29-06-2002 09:33									#47
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oh. okay Im agnostic than

	29-06-2002 09:41									#48
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No, Athiests don't go door-to-door telling you that there is no God. Rather, they will walk up to your face, say your religion is ****, and call you and idiot for believing in something you can't see.

Athiests believe that they are the smart ones because they follow science. I don't say they're wrong, and I don't say I'm right (and I am a strong believer in Evolution...as God's updating...Earth v5.0.)

Lets see, how many times in this one thread have religious people been bashed.

By Akka le Vil

quote: It's called fight against ignorance and blind beliefs.

By LightEning

quote: I prefer just shooting down religicists' arguments whenever I see them

By Krazy Horse

quote: thus are unsuitable to teach in a public classroom

By Vlad Antlerkov

quote: Most (but not enough) Christians do not hold this view

By Asher

quote: How many atheists spread messages like that?

(See Above)

quote: Some people are just really, really sick of "Christian Values" dictating how we live our lives.

By Lightblue

quote: I remember that not everyone has the benefit of good, secular education

quote: Your loss that's all I can say.

By Urban Ranger

quote: You should, though. Why let the flamebaiters muddy the water?

Seems to me that Athiests are JUST as pushy about their beliefs as Christians are.

	29-06-2002 09:44									#49
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The Emperor Fabulous: This is a thread ABOUT atheists and religion, do not be surprised if it's brought up and DO NOT pretend like it's being forced upon you.

You may not realize it, but your Christian values and beliefs are forced on the main populace far, far, far more often than Atheists may on you.

There are still far more instances on Apolyton where religious people have "attacked" (using your examples as a definition) atheists on a constant basis, including CivNation and Lincoln.

And if you consider the vast majority of those quotes as bashing Christians...damn man, get out more.

Disagreeing with Christians is one thing, bashing them is another.

	29-06-2002 09:49									#50
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I made that post because it started with "Why do athiests try to convert" which turned into "why do christians push their religion on us?" Looks to me like I stayed on topic.

Athiesm IS forced upon Christians by people who believe that they are "intellectual" because they have no faith. I don't approve of Christians doing that either. All I'm saying is that Athiests are just as guilty as Christians.

I'm not really a fan of either of those you mentioned (in fact, I'm a fan of yours), but I'm defending my religion because I'm sick of people coming up to me and saying that my beliefs are bullshit. I don't agree when Christians do it, but they don't do it to me. Athiests do. You defend yourself when Christians attack, I'll do the same on the other side.

Maybe your quotes were more to the moderate point, but most I chose were chosen for a reason.

	29-06-2002 09:52									#51
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I have absolutely no problem with religious people until those beliefs are forced on me because they seem to think they know better about what's right and wrong.

Take a look at the sodomy laws for example. Christians directing what's legal in the whole of the nation based upon Christian Family Values. How nice...

	29-06-2002 09:57									#52
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Tell me the last time sodomy laws were enforced.

I know, you could have chosen a number of others, and I'll agree...but please, tell the other athiests not to lash out at me for it.

	29-06-2002 10:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Tell me the last time sodomy laws were enforced.

Very recently, in Texas. A case in which two men were arrested for having sex in the privacy of their own home. They were convicted, and the state supreme court even upheld the state sodomy laws and their conviction. This was maybe 2-3 years ago.

	29-06-2002 10:25									#54
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quote: Although there is a difference (and it is a big difference), it usually tends to be ignored in this kind of threads, and I don't care to make the distinction.

You're looking for my last Christian/Evolutionist Argument i beleive. It's well gone.

When will we receive Rational reasons for why Aetheists give a ..... errrr fig........ about religious issues.

	29-06-2002 10:27									#55
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Skilord, if you still don't understand, perhaps you'd be better off running around in the steets.

	29-06-2002 10:45									#56
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Well if i shot back a cruel comeback that wouldn't be christian of me would it.

But if i got run over i'd be on my way to the afterlife, a much happer one than yours i'm hoping.

	29-06-2002 10:49									#57
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Ironically enough my idea of hell is heaven. I would so hate to spend the afterlife with a bunch of hardcore Christians.

	29-06-2002 11:04									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous

No, because scientific theories and religious beliefs are apples and oranges.

Cut it any way you want, but I don't think we should be teaching that God doesn't exist in school either...

Your argument is childish.

	29-06-2002 11:07									#59
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Hey that wasn't nice Skilord, as Christians we should be ministering a campaign of love to non-christians, not one of fear.

	29-06-2002 11:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by SKILORD But if i got run over i'd be on my way to the afterlife, a much happer one than yours i'm hoping.

One of the problems with these Christians