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Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 17:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
I think the whole concept of judgment by a jury of peers is strange to Europeans. I don't know about double jeopardy though.


Strange comment as you got your jury system from England.

There are also trials by jury in the austrian system. We (and the germans) also have a modified version of it in the Schöffengericht.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 17:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
I don't know about double jeopardy though.


Bah! They'll just keep appealing the acquittal of the defendent until they get the verdict they want.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 18:03 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland


Strange comment as you got your jury system from England.

There are also trials by jury in the austrian system. We (and the germans) also have a modified version of it in the Schöffengericht.


Yes, I understand that, but it is my understanding that it has been largely phased out in Europe. You are the expert. Tell us (and also the double jeopardy thing).

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 18:04
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"They'll just keep appealing the acquittal of the defendent until they get the verdict they want."

No, for that we have the possibility to restart a trial upon new evidence. It's always a mess to keep that in check.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 18:14
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"Yes, I understand that, but it is my understanding that it has been largely phased out in Europe."

France still has them I think. But there are various systems of laymen participation, and I'm into comparative constitutional (not penal) law.

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
King
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 18:43
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Roland:
quote:
To come from a hopelessly messed-up legal system like the US and complain about a Canguroo Court is a bit much.
Suits such as Ramsey Clark's have already been thrown out of both US and European courts. Why should such baseless suits be provided yet another venue for being heard?

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 18:52
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"Why should such baseless suits be provided yet another venue for being heard?"

It's for the prosecutor to screen such "suits". He/she may well need a large dustbin but this is no big deal.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 19:26 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Like the U.S. is so inundated with "allies" now.

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 19:44 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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quote:
doubt any American would expect to see a war in Western Europe in their life times.


Read some of the things Chris and Ned posted on there forums. Especcially Ned fears a new uprising of German militarism.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 19:55
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The avatar suits you, Marcus.

-Arrian

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:04
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It will happen, it's the lesson of history Marky.

In the early 1920s, they used to say "Never again!", "We have fought the war to end war", and yet, another world war came less then 20 years later.

Despite Roland's comment earlier, the EU is not politics and you all know it, you all still have your own, and look at how you are all still feircly nationalistic, you all still beat your chests.

All it will take to break you is one strong man, be it the French fool who lost the run-off in France, a Russian premere dreaming old dreams, a blakan despot, or even a seemingly even minded German leader, all it takes is one, and history shows us, it WILL come.

Besides, I don't know why any Euro disagrees with me, I'm with you, disolve Nato now, we both don't want it.
You have your court, we have ours, and that's the way it's going to stay, your complaining will change nothing, so forget the ICC.

I'm also in favor of moving the UN to say, Geneva, it has no place in the USA, it belongs in Europe.

The last peice of the puzzle is simple, we will conduct our affairs our way, you will conduct your affairs your way, everybody is happy.

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:09 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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don't get your hopes us Chris. You wish the EU to fail cause you fear it. And rightly so. It will surpass you in a few decades

But I agree with your last comment. Though I fear you mean with "our affairs our way" invading countries you think are the new evil of the month. By all means, do your affairs your way, but leave the rest of the world out of it, not just Europe.

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
don't get your hopes us Chris. You wish the EU to fail cause you fear it. And rightly so. It will surpass you in a few decades
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You should do stand up Marky, you really should.
Even as a CONTINENT you don't match us, a few decades, centuries, take all the time you need, it still won't happen.
And secretly Marky, you are following our plan, we basically set the US up as tiny countries united under a cental government.
Look at our name:
United States of America.
Surpass us?
You are BECOMING us!

quote:
But I agree with your last comment. Though I fear you mean with "our affairs our way" invading countries you think are the new evil of the month. By all means, do your affairs your way, but leave the rest of the world out of it, not just Europe.
It must really suck to be so impotent as you guys are, eh?

- Groucho - is offline - Groucho -
Prince

Jan 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:17
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What makes you think that the rest of the world shares your attitudes, St. M? Sure, calling them part of an axis of evil makes Bush look like his speech writers use crayons, but I'm fairly sure South Korea is happy with the 37,000 US troops on their border with North Korea.

Will the EU step up and replace those troops if the US takes your advice and goes home? Or will you just wring your hands and protest when a shooting war starts?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:17
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The Euros (citizens of EU that I have come to call them) won't be any threat.

If you put 4 Euros in a room, they will form 6 political parties.

America is United. We have one culture compromised of many different ones. Europe is many different cultures trying to join together because none of them can stand on two feet by themselves.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:21 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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Sava wins comedy post of the day.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:23
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I thought he had some good points equally...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:35 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Marcus is merely waiting for the doctor's to uplug life-support, as he demonstrates he's already brain-dead.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Marcus is merely waiting for the doctor's to uplug life-support, as he demonstrates he's already brain-dead.


He's probably been visiting too many coffee shops...

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:39 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Boddington's
I thought he had some good points equally...


The US is united? They've got more fundamentalist crazy lunatic factions in that country than the whole of Europe put together.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:40
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"The US is united? They've got more fundamentalist crazy lunatic factions in that country than the whole of Europe put together."

Value judgement.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:41
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Yes, but we're all in the same boat. Plus, our fundamentalist crazy lunatic factions can beat up your fundamentalist crazy lunatic factions.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:42 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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Hey, don't single me out, I didn't see any other facts in this thread.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:43 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Yes, but we're all in the same boat. Plus, our fundamentalist crazy lunatic factions can beat up your fundamentalist crazy lunatic factions.


OK, let's set it up.

IRA vs. whatever those pro life bombers are called. We might not have as many but the ones we've got are hard as nails.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:48
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We got hooligans as well.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:51
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Someone please enlighten me, but haven't certain European countries already obtained immunity from WC prosecution for their soldiers involved in peacekeeping? Why would it be wrong to give the same to American troops? Do you really expect us to put the futures of our young men in the hands of such bigots?

You should be extatic in anticipation over the threatened withdrawal of American troops from the peacekeeping force. Now is the time for enlightened European leadership to shine forth across the globe. Well heck, at least it could shine forth on your own continent. You should realize though that if you mess up in Bosnia and Kosovo and the Serbs start slaughtering Muslims again it will not look good for you. You may find the blame laid at your doorsteps and that you will have gained new enemies in the Muslim world.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:51
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There are many Pro-Lifer groups like that. I tihnk the "Aryan Nation" and the "Michigan Militia" are two of the more crazy ones.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:52 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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OK, you contact them. I'll get on the blower to the Provos.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Someone please enlighten me, but haven't certain European countries already obtained immunity from WC prosecution for their soldiers involved in peacekeeping?


Yes, they have. The reason they are mad at us is that they would rather that we do it piecemeal as they do instead of asking for a blanket excemption.

Lemmy is offline Lemmy
King
Bubblewrap
Dec 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 02-07-2002 20:54 Visit Lemmy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Someone please enlighten me, but haven't certain European countries already obtained immunity from WC prosecution for their soldiers involved in peacekeeping? Why would it be wrong to give the same to American troops? Do you really expect us to put the futures of our young men in the hands of such bigots?

You should be extatic in anticipation over the threatened withdrawal of American troops from the peacekeeping force. Now is the time for enlightened European leadership to shine forth across the globe. Well heck, at least it could shine forth on your own continent. You should realize though that if you mess up in Bosnia and Kosovo and the Serbs start slaughtering Muslims again it will not look good for you. You may find the blame laid at your doorsteps and that you will have gained new enemies in the Muslim world.


You will be enlightened if you read the rest of this thread, or any earlier thread about ICC.
To sum it up, they did not obtain immunity from the ICC, only a garantuee that Afghanistan won't turn any captured officers in to the ICC.

 
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