16-07-2002 04:28									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Mickeyj When I read about that on Saturday I went into a flat F*&K and all web sites seem to agree. (planet-rugby is good). Thank goodness todays reports deny all rumours about it.

As I said, I think it was more a case of getting in some very early bluff in the contract negotiation stakes.

quote: Flooded fields can prevent a game starting due to the risk of drowining (1995 WC semi), but I have no idea what would happen if the field flooded during the game.

The game goes on, I suspect. Remember those matches that have more resembled water polo?

quote: Both, Andydog's a mate.

You'll note that we haven't held that against you. Or vice versa.

	16-07-2002 04:34									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I knew you would appreciate Finbar.

You know me too well, Tamerlin. I must be getting predictable.

quote: You are right, although the changes are about the scrum, I have to read again the articles in order to sum up the important facts and I will then have some translation to make. I do it as soon as possible.

OK. I look forward to reading it.

	16-07-2002 04:40									#93
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Outstanding Queensland winger Lote Tuquiri has left Rugby League for Union. It's no real surprise, though there was a big noise in the media over the weekend to the effect that the TV Network that broadcasts RL had stepped in with a financial package to keep him with RL. If they did, it didn't work.

And how the RL mob are gnashing their teeth!

Now the battle is on amongst our S12 teams to sign him.

	16-07-2002 07:26									#94
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I enjoy playing rugby, but watching it is another story; most, or if not all the people I know who love rugby, seem to have some sort of fetish problem over 'my country is better than yours because we beat you at .

It just gets pathetic when people start crying over it or getting angry.

You need to open your eyes and see that the universe doesn't rotate around who can beat who. Women have known this philosophy for years.

There you go

	16-07-2002 07:32									#95
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Thanks for the stimulating contribution, SnOOpy. I saw a thread dedicated to DIY soft furnishings over on another page. Enjoy!

	16-07-2002 08:55									#96
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quote: I enjoy playing rugby, but watching it is another story; most, or if not all the people I know who love rugby, seem to have some sort of fetish problem over 'my country is better than yours because we beat you at .

Not only rugby Snoopy. You can see it all over the "sportsworld"
And that attitude is called "passion" "love for the game" "for the shirt of your team/your country". When you cheer for that team, or cry because you lose a game!!! That´s because you love that sport!!!

It´s a shame that few people can understand it

	16-07-2002 09:10									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py It just gets pathetic when people start crying over it or getting angry.

A good sentiment Icedan but probably a little misplaced. Far better applied to soccer fans than RU fans (and perhaps to Northern Ireland in general )..

	16-07-2002 09:27									#98
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Can someone also please point out to SnOOpy that it's a prerequisite to post in this thread that one is at least on first-name terms with one's feminine side?

	16-07-2002 11:55									#99
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*Wonders whether he should point out to finbar that Icedan/Snoopy is yet another Kiwi.

	16-07-2002 11:58									#100
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon *Wonders whether he should point out to finbar that Icedan/Snoopy is yet another Kiwi.

*finbar ponders how on earth ravagon could think anyone other than a Kiwi would post such drivel*

	16-07-2002 12:02									#101
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quote: Originally posted by finbar And how the RL mob are gnashing their teeth!

Are they ever. This is really significant - league, which started as a break away professional code from amateur union - now cannot match what union pays. That is a huge change and defections are accelerating.

Wasn't I clever to get my boys playing union instead of league

	16-07-2002 12:04									#102
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'Twas immensely clever of you. Apart from which, it's a game that takes some brains to play. Thus it will expand their intellects. Unlike RL, where you risk turning into Blocker Roach or Benny Elias.

	16-07-2002 12:57									#103
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quote: I'm starting to get worried about Havak.

Thats really quite touching.

To explain my absence - well obviously I wasn't ignoring you - a spot of back bother sadly (the same trouble that ended my very amateur playing days in fact)

I will try to catch up with the thread later - obviously there's a lot of work built up for me at the moment.

From very brief highlights the game seemed very competitive last Saturday - if not spectacular?

	16-07-2002 16:24									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Thats really quite touching.

Damn! I meant to edit out that bit.

quote: To explain my absence - well obviously I wasn't ignoring you - a spot of back bother sadly (the same trouble that ended my very amateur playing days in fact)

Yeah yeah. Down to business. We were about to persuade Tamerlin to insert some of that Tigers waffle into his sig just to keep us infuriated.

quote: I will try to catch up with the thread later - obviously there's a lot of work built up for me at the moment.

Presumably you were bedridden? You couldn't have kept up with your work from bed? Kept your actual workplace for more important things like adding to the drivel here?

quote: From very brief highlights the game seemed very competitive last Saturday - if not spectacular?

It was a terrific contest. Very few BC matches aren't. It's just that the conditions were crap to the extent that actually passing a ball took on enormously risky proportions. We'll stitch the buggers right up next time around.

Now. It seems to have fallen to me calculate the margin for the ABs-Bok match this Saturday night. We should probably do it between us. I'm thinking ... maybe a couple converted tries and at least one penalty start for the Boks? What you think?

PS. In case you haven't noticed, we now have a Bok and a Puma amongst us. So feel free to continue to sledge both nations as is your wont.

	16-07-2002 17:25									#105
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quote: Damn! I meant to edit out that bit.

I thought it was an unusual slip on your part.

quote: We were about to persuade Tamerlin to insert some of that Tigers waffle into his sig just to keep us infuriated.

Oh is that still there? Let me fix it for you.

quote: Presumably you were bedridden? You couldn't have kept up with your work from bed? Kept your actual workplace for more important things like adding to the drivel here?

Highly immobilised for sure, and I cleared all the work I could but sometimes you simply have to see people to slap them down properly right?

quote: We'll stitch the buggers right up next time around.

You won’t find me betting against that.

What was your take on the sin binning towards the end – the NZ centre took a player without the ball if I read it right? You may have covered this but I still haven’t been able to read back over the thread properly…

I’ll have a crack at the points spread – should have something ready tomorrow. I’d be amazed if the Boks didn’t get 10 points or so start.

quote: In case you haven't noticed, we now have a Bok and a Puma amongst us. So feel free to continue to sledge both nations as is your wont.

A hearty welcome to both. But to refute your slanderous claims...

I’m quite a fan of the Pumas except when they play England. I particularly like the one that chose to be Australian

And the Boks remain a stern physical test for any side – that physical style is much respected by this Englishman and I love watching us play them – except when the video ref is both a Bok and totally clueless like in June 2000.

I don’t think they are in the same league as they were seven years back though – and there is no way their world ranking should be higher than France at the moment? I fear they are due a drubbing on Saturday.

	16-07-2002 17:58									#106
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quote: Originally posted by finbar No, they don't do margins. I'll have a crack at calculating a margin. It's hard to know whether to take the weather into account. Another night like last Saturday night and any points start the Boks get - and they would, you'd reckon, have to have a decent start - would make the calculation meaningless. I mean to say, you could hardly call Wellington a balmy tropical paradise at the best of times.

Wellington is referred to as the arsehole of NZ because its always blowing.

quote: Another Manhattan refugee?

Actually yes, but he and his wife just recently moved back to South Africa (God knows why). Ill have to send him an email with the link.

	16-07-2002 18:06									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py I enjoy playing rugby, but watching it is another story; most, or if not all the people I know who love rugby, seem to have some sort of fetish problem over 'my country is better than yours because we beat you at . It just gets pathetic when people start crying over it or getting angry. You need to open your eyes and see that the universe doesn't rotate around who can beat who. Women have known this philosophy for years. There you go

	16-07-2002 18:09									#108
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Welcome back Havak! We really do have a full representation of the major rugby nations now.

10 points start for the Boks sounds about right to me, put me down for 20 gold on the All Blacks Finbar.

	16-07-2002 18:25									#109
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quote: Welcome back Havak! We really do have a full representation of the major rugby nations now.

And thats not just for the welcome back, which is appreciated btw, but more because you just accidentally upset eleven million Celts of various hues. Lovely stuff

On a different note the six nations will be on free to air TV from next year as the BBC has signed it up - a good move for widening the appeal of the sport I think

	16-07-2002 18:35									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Havak What was your take on the sin binning towards the end – the NZ centre took a player without the ball if I read it right? You may have covered this but I still haven’t been able to read back over the thread properly…

He took Dan Herbert without the ball approaching the try line. It was certainly a profesional foul and worthy of the bin. The question was whether or not a penalty try should have resulted. The ref told Gregan a try was "possible but not probable", therefore no penalty try. I think it was one of those close goes. If he'd awarded a penalty try, I don't think anyone would have argued very loudly. Apart from Caligastia, of course, but it was 4.30am where he was watching it, he was probably both two-thirds asleep and rat-arsed, so what would he know?

quote: I’ll have a crack at the points spread – should have something ready tomorrow. I’d be amazed if the Boks didn’t get 10 points or so start.

I'd've thought a few more than 10. 10 ain't a lot. On the basis of last week, the ABs having beaten us, and the Boks having looked pretty ordinary against their recent oppo.

quote: I don’t think they are in the same league as they were seven years back though – and there is no way their world ranking should be higher than France at the moment? I fear they are due a drubbing on Saturday.

They'd have to rank behind France after the 6 Nations, even allowing for us beating France. The French went awful close against us.

	16-07-2002 18:39									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Wellington is referred to as the arsehole of NZ because its always blowing.

Well, yes, but wind - of the climatic variety - is fair enough. If it turns into Antarctica like Christchurch did ...

quote: Actually yes, but he and his wife just recently moved back to South Africa (God knows why). Ill have to send him an email with the link.

Deported, presumably. I can't imagine any other reason why one would leave NYC for SA. With enormous respect to our Bok friends. You see, Havak? You show up - after a lengthy absence, without a note from your mother, I might add - and it brings out the worst in me! I was incredibly pleasant to everyone while you were away.

	16-07-2002 18:41									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia 10 points start for the Boks sounds about right to me, put me down for 20 gold on the All Blacks Finbar.

Sorry, the market hasn't been framed yet. And if the ABs had 6 points start last week, there's no way the Boks can have only 10!

	16-07-2002 18:44									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And thats not just for the welcome back, which is appreciated btw, but more because you just accidentally upset eleven million Celts of various hues. Lovely stuff

Jeez, Caligastia, you walked right into that one. You ought to know by now - give Havak a chance to pull a Celt's nose and he'll smack him with an axe.

quote: On a different note the six nations will be on free to air TV from next year as the BBC has signed it up - a good move for widening the appeal of the sport I think

That's interesting. Sky had it, didn't they? Didn't they want it again? Or were they outbid?

	16-07-2002 19:15									#114
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quote: The ref told Gregan a try was "possible but not probable", therefore no penalty try. I think it was one of those close goes.

Which is fair enough. I’m sure Caligastia was screaming at his TV.

quote: The French went awful close against us.

Australia is a hard place to play and win so they did themselves great credit.

quote: I was incredibly pleasant to everyone while you were away.

I’ll see what the others have to say on that one.

quote: give Havak a chance to pull a Celt's nose and he'll smack him with an axe.

I do enjoy it I confess. You really need to see a valleys boy react to the suggestion Wales are not world class to understand the pleasure it gives me when you guys, albiet accidentally, affirm the same thing.

quote: Sky had it, didn't they? Didn't they want it again? Or were they outbid?

Yet this actually allows me to continue in the same vein – Sky stated there wasn’t ‘sufficient interest’ in England games in the Six nations to warrant what they paid so they declined to bid for the new contract. They instead said they were ‘determined’ to hold onto England’s autumn fixtures against the big boys from the SH.

The BBC already had all games in the 6N but the England home fixtures, but now they have signed to show them too for the next three years.

If you read between the lines you might think that the BBC and Sky had colluded to avoid a bidding war – I couldn’t possibly comment

	16-07-2002 22:41									#115
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quote: Originally posted by finbar They'd have to rank behind France after the 6 Nations, even allowing for us beating France. The French went awful close against us.

Yes Finbar, as we say in France : "you have felt the wind of the cannon ball".

Welcome back Havak !
It's great to hear from you again, Finbar was really missing you (he even asked me to cross the channel to have some news).

I tried to tease him while you were out but I must admit I'am less skillful than you are.

About the Saturday game, I think the All Blacks will beat the Springboks by 10 points. I will wait until we agree on the margin before deciding the amount of gold I will bet. I think this margin should perhaps be defined a bit higher than 10 point.

	17-07-2002 03:54									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I’m sure Caligastia was screaming at his TV.

Snoring, more like. It was 4.30am. In the City That Never Sleeps, admittedly, but he's not a native.

quote: You really need to see a valleys boy react to the suggestion Wales are not world class to understand the pleasure it gives me when you guys, albiet accidentally, affirm the same thing.

We derive exactly the same pleasure from taunting Tasmanians. Methinks our beloved ex-PM, the wonderful Gough Whitlam, delivered the mightiest smack in the Tasmanian eye when he said Tasmanians were only good for double-headed fellatio.

quote: If you read between the lines you might think that the BBC and Sky had colluded to avoid a bidding war – I couldn’t possibly comment

It's quite possible. OTOH, I know there's a lot of belt-tightening going on with Sky and within its family.

	17-07-2002 04:04									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Yes Finbar, as we say in France : "you have felt the wind of the cannon ball".

Listen, Tamerlin, because Havak's back - so I can taunt him - I'm going to be really really nice to you and tell you I think the French national anthem is the world's truly great national anthem. Nothing comes close to it. But of course you know that.

quote: Welcome back Havak !

Okay okay! Enough with the bonhomie!

quote: (he even asked me to cross the channel to have some news).

I figured you'd go unnoticed, Tamerlin. The accents would have to be fairly indistinguishable.

quote: I tried to tease him while you were out but I must admit I'am less skillful than you are.

In fact, Tamerlin, your teasing had a certain ... je ne sais quoi ... that Havak's lacks.

quote: About the Saturday game, I think the All Blacks will beat the Springboks by 10 points. I will wait until we agree on the margin before deciding the amount of gold I will bet. I think this margin should perhaps be defined a bit higher than 10 point.

I'm thinking it has to be more like 15 or 17 points. Margin betting really is designed for a game like this. More so than the Wallaby-ABs match. The whole point of margin betting is to make it a challenge to back the favourite. Otherwise you might as well bet straight out.

	17-07-2002 12:08									#118
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It's funny you know. Yesterday I was catching up on this thread and for some strange reason I found that my nose was wrinkling. I found myself checking under the bottom of my shoe. It was then that I noticed that Havak had returned with his smelly bitter arse!

quote: I'm thinking it has to be more like 15 or 17 points.

Yike! That will be tough. There is nothing the Boks enjoy more than playing the All Blacks - they always put 200% in and seem to lift their game no matter what. The ABs will certainly NOT be going into Saturday's game thinking this match will be a gimme.

quote: Outstanding Queensland winger Lote Tuquiri has left Rugby League for Union.

So the inevitable has finally happened! League players defecting to union! This will have big repercussions I'll wager. I was wondering - that game where the Aussies put hot pants on and climb all over each other, with the umpires who constantly fire off pretend pistols, will we eventually see players defecting from that also? Or is Aussie Rules and Union too different for that to happen?

Speaking of league, I see that the NZRFU has called in Malcolm Boyle to manage the fallout from the report by Sir Thomas Eichelbaum. Malcolm Boyle used to handle the PR for the Auckland Warriors. I can already see the blood of the NZRFU flowing down the gutters!

	17-07-2002 13:05									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog It's funny you know. Yesterday I was catching up on this thread and for some strange reason I found that my nose was wrinkling. I found myself checking under the bottom of my shoe. It was then that I noticed that Havak had returned with his smelly bitter arse!

Careful, Havak wasn't around for the latter part of that bitter diatribe (so to speak) of yours, so the context could be, um, lacking. Havak might be a bit offended. Well, seriously offended, hopefully!

quote: Yike! That will be tough. There is nothing the Boks enjoy more than playing the All Blacks - they always put 200% in and seem to lift their game no matter what. The ABs will certainly NOT be going into Saturday's game thinking this match will be a gimme.

Jeez, Andy, you're even starting to sound like Havak! Substitute Poms for ABs and Celts for Boks! Bottom line: the ABs beat the Wallabies who beat the French, and are playing the Boks who - with great respect to Our Man From The Pampas - struggled against the Pumas. You're seriously trying to tell me you don't think the ABs can't score 3 more tries than the Boks? If they can't, you're T-O-A-S-T against us in Sydney next month.

quote: So the inevitable has finally happened! League players defecting to union! This will have big repercussions I'll wager.

The RL bods are talking about all sorts of schemes - financial - to retain their players. Apart from the delicious irony of RL now suffering the player pillaging that Union suffered - at RL's hands - for about 60 years, RL isn't in a position to keep their players largely as a result of the Murdoch/Packer-funded Super League debacle. Player payments went through the roof as players were lured to one side or the other. As a consequence, there are now very strict salary caps in place at the clubs. Thus the clubs can't afford to outbid the ARU. Talk about laugh - I'm almost wetting myself ...

... oops ... don't you hate it when a metaphor comes to life?

quote: I was wondering - that game where the Aussies put hot pants on and climb all over each other, with the umpires who constantly fire off pretend pistols, will we eventually see players defecting from that also? Or is Aussie Rules and Union too different for that to happen?

They're not even remotely connected. The only other game in the world that Aussie Rules remotely resembles is Gaelic Football. In fact, they have a series of matches against each other once a year using modified rules. I was brought up on Aussie Rules. It was a good game in its day. It now seems to resemble basketball.

quote: Speaking of league, I see that the NZRFU has called in Malcolm Boyle to manage the fallout from the report by Sir Thomas Eichelbaum. Malcolm Boyle used to handle the PR for the Auckland Warriors. I can already see the blood of the NZRFU flowing down the gutters!

Not before time. They really stuffed it up.

	17-07-2002 13:06									#120
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quote: Welcome back Havak !

Cheers Tamerlin.

I had to say thanks despite Finbar getting frictional with the bonhomie

quote: I tried to tease him while you were out but I must admit I'am less skillful than you are.

Not at all. He never really rises to any of my teasing anyway, he just plays along.

quote: when he said Tasmanians were only good for double-headed fellatio.

Strewth - what a line to read whilst drinking my morning coffee!!!

I had a mad taxi driver in Cairns who explained that whilst Queenslanders and NSW residents would take the p*** mercilessly out of each other both would actually stop to rip into a Tasmanian who entered the room – true?

quote: there's a lot of belt-tightening going on with Sky and within its family.

The reality seems to be only the England-France home games were generating profit from advertising revenue. For myself I am sure they discussed it to some extent and therefore reached a deal – the BBC and this part of one-time-Aussie Murdoch’s empire are getting quite cosy.

quote: the French national anthem is the world's truly great national anthem

It definitely stirs the blood more than dirges like the Aussie and UK anthems but, related solely to rugby, I think the Irish rugby anthem is the best I’ve ever heard – because the team is unified they use neither the Republic or UK anthems but instead use a rousing little number that really stirs the blood – have you heard it? “Ireland, Ireland, together standing tall…”

You know of course that of all the celts I have the softest spot for the Irish…maybe my bias is showing again?

quote: that Havak's lacks.

subtlety by any chance?

quote: It was then that I noticed that Havak had returned with his smelly bitter arse!

In my defence I have to say that Finbar was right – generations of selective breeding (in that the ugly bus arrives after just a few pints of Pom bitter) have given us cast iron digestive systems – I had far nore trouble in this regard with Aussie beer.

I’ve done a simple analysis of the last ten Bok-NZ fixtures and weighted it by current world rankings and the surprising result is that NZ should expect to win by only 7 points based on it – or in other words the Boks get a 7 point start. How do you guys feel about that?

quote: League players defecting to union!

League is in big trouble here, and that massive loss by the pseudo-Lions didn’t help. My own club has poached two league players this close season and that’s the tip of the iceberg.