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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
I had to say thanks despite Finbar getting frictional with the bonhomie  |
One round of greetings was enough. If it'd been an old rugger injury of the ilk of a total knee reconstruction or something, I'd've been impressed. 
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Not at all. He never really rises to any of my teasing anyway, he just plays along. |
*finbar notes the advanced state of Havak's false sense of security*
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Strewth - what a line to read whilst drinking my morning coffee!!! |
I don't think you've had an equivalent of Gough Whitlam over there. Mmmmm. I suppose if you took Tony Benn, gave him a massive intellect and a stunning wit. The monstrous ego's sort of already in place.
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I had a mad taxi driver in Cairns who explained that whilst Queenslanders and NSW residents would take the p*** mercilessly out of each other both would actually stop to rip into a Tasmanian who entered the room – true? |
Pretty much. Except the New South Welsh would have to provide the wit and intellect. The Queenslanders ... well, they'd probably manage to close the door behind the Tasmanian after he entered the room.
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It definitely stirs the blood more than dirges like the Aussie and UK anthems but, related solely to rugby, I think the Irish rugby anthem is the best I’ve ever heard – because the team is unified they use neither the Republic or UK anthems but instead use a rousing little number that really stirs the blood – have you heard it? “Ireland, Ireland, together standing tall…” |
The Irish anthem's terrific, too. I just don't think anything comes close to the French. The Italian is nicely ... um, Italian.
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I’ve done a simple analysis of the last ten Bok-NZ fixtures and weighted it by current world rankings and the surprising result is that NZ should expect to win by only 7 points based on it – or in other words the Boks get a 7 point start. How do you guys feel about that? |
After the ABs had 6 points start last week? I don't think you've factored in the inexperience of this Bok team. There might be some players from last year's Tri-Nations, but I'd be surprised if there were many from the season before. I woud have to argue for a differential of something like 2 converted tries. As I also said earlier, the key to margins betting is to make it a challenge to back the favourites. Otherwise we might as well bet straight out.
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League is in big trouble here, and that massive loss by the pseudo-Lions didn’t help. My own club has poached two league players this close season and that’s the tip of the iceberg. |
The headlines here after the so-called Test match were to the effect that it had - effectively - killed off RL as a so-called international sport. The sooner it shrivels and dies, the better, IMHO.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
It can hardly be an international sport when only two nations playing it, GB and NZ, are not composed entirely of travelling Aussies. |
They like to think of it as an "international sport". It's always been a minority sport for people who can't count to 15.
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I agree – it’s an anachronism of a game and more than that it’s totally tedious to watch. The sooner it returns to the true code the better because all it does at the moment is keep some real talent away from Union – Jason Robinson wasted seven years doing it. |
I don't know about over there, but a theory doing the rounds here is that RL's too entrenched actually to die out and that its future is primarily as a very localised sport with its brightest and best talents going across to Union. Which is, in fact, pretty much what's happening now. The difference at the moment, though, is that RL has delusions. And overheads to match.
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I’m well aware back spasm is something of a ‘girly’ back injury – pun thoroughly intended. |
I wasn't making light of your back spasm, Havak, far from it. I'm sure it was hideous. I just said I'd've been more impressed by a total knee reconstruction.
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Our parliament as you say is full of grey conformist nobodys. They are comedians of course – but not in a good way.
But I’ll stop there before Caligastia freaks about it. |
We're not talking politics. We're talking about politicians. Quite a different thing. Besides, Caligastia know he only occupies the throne at our pleasure.
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Yes I accept that. I can’t help but feel a US poster might drop by with a different opinion (and frankly I think their dirge is worse than ours). |
As I've said before, there's no danger of a Bald Eagle flying by. The typical Bald Eagle attention span wouldn't get them past a Haka.
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You are right – I have only done a simple historical analysis which is massively flawed in that respect. However if we re-calculate we need to factor in the RSA factor too? The Boks do significantly better at home. Certainly if you look at away results they alone would give the 14 point difference. So shall we take the seven and double it based on the lack of experience in the Boks? |
If they were playing in SA, and at altitude, I'm sure that would be a factor. The ABs, at home, adds to their favouritism, methinks. I reckon 14 is getting close to a fair margin. I'd be inclined to toss a penalty goal on top of the 14 - factoring in the Mehrtens boot, which killed us - but I might get shouted down.
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Incidentally that nonsense about them joining the six nations? They will need to improve a lot first |
It was always crap. As I said much earlier, I think it was a very early bluff for the S12 and Tri-Nation negotiations in 2005. It's now being loudly denied, anyway. I don't think anyone took it seriously.
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:20
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Too many kind words folks, I'am not sure I really deserve them. 
Yes, "La Marseillaise" is a great national anthem, how could I deny this though I agree the Irish and Welsh anthems are also pretty good.
"La Marseillaise" is perhaps more impressive because of its history and its original use as a war song. To those interested (Taken from a french site dedicated to our national anthem ) :
La Marseillaise, the French national anthem, was composed in one night during the French Revolution (April 24, 1792) by Claude-Joseph Rouget de Lisle, a captain of the engineers and amateur musician stationed in Strasbourg in 1792. It was played at a patriotic banquet at Marseilles, and printed copies were given to the revolutionary forces then marching on Paris. They entered Paris singing this song, and to it they marched to the Tuileries on August 10th.
Ironically, Rouget de Lisle was himself a royalist and refused to take the oath of allegiance to the new constitution. He was imprisoned and barely escaped the guillotine.. Originally entitled Chant de guerre de l'armeé du Rhin (War Song of the Army of the Rhine), the anthem became called La Marseillaise because of its popularity with volunteer army units from Marseilles.
The Convention accepted it as the French national anthem in a decree passed July 14, 1795. La Marseillaise was banned by Napoleon during the Empire, and by Louis XVIII on the Second Restoration (1815), because of its revolutionary associations. Authorized after the July Revolution of 1830, it was again banned by Napoleon III and not reinstated until 1879.
Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts
To arms citizens
Form your battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows
What do they want this horde of slaves
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What methods must be taken?
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!
What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our courts!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny
Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward
Against you we are all soldiers
If they fall, our young heros
France will bear new ones
Ready to join the fight against you
Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your blows
Spare these sad victims
That they regret taking up arms against us
But not these bloody despots
These accomplices of Bouillé
All these tigers who pitilessly
Ripped out their mothers' wombs
We shall enter into the pit
When our elders will no longer be there
There we shall find their ashes
And the mark of their virtues
We are much less jealous of surviving them
Than of sharing their coffins
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or joining them
Drive on sacred patriotism
Support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!
Not really a peaceful song...
But a perfect one to give some heart to our players before a rugby match.
Finbar : no, the word "tigers " in our national anthem does not refer to Leicester team.
Some stupid people, at least in my own petty opinion, are even considering the lyrics are too violent and that they ought to be modified in order to soften the anthem. Perhaps these people are the same as those that are trying to forbid "Bugs Bunny" cartoons to be scheduled when kids can look at TV. 
About the saturday game, I still consider the AB won't beat the Boks by more than 10 points. Let's bet 30 Gold the difference will be under 14 points in favor of New Zealand. 
Last edited by Tamerlin on 17-07-2002 at 23:41
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
He took Dan Herbert without the ball approaching the try line. It was certainly a profesional foul and worthy of the bin. The question was whether or not a penalty try should have resulted. The ref told Gregan a try was "possible but not probable", therefore no penalty try. I think it was one of those close goes. If he'd awarded a penalty try, I don't think anyone would have argued very loudly. Apart from Caligastia, of course, but it was 4.30am where he was watching it, he was probably both two-thirds asleep and rat-arsed, so what would he know? |
Actually I didnt drink because I wanted to stay awake. Caffeine was my beverage of chioce. Regarding the professional foul I agree with ravagon. "I did think the (lack thereof) of an Australian penalty try quite nicely counterbalanced the ref penalizing the AB's for time-wasting on the Wallaby line a few minutes previous."
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Deported, presumably. I can't imagine any other reason why one would leave NYC for SA. With enormous respect to our Bok friends. |
I doubt it, hes a lawyer..
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Which is fair enough. I’m sure Caligastia was screaming at his TV. |
Not with wee wifey sleeping right next to me... - I had express myself through violent gestures and cursing under my breath...
We had a guest visiting at the time, so I had to watch in the bedroom.
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Just out of interest, here are our Sportstab odds for the ABs-v-Boks match. They're giving the Boks 11.5 points start. But, interestingly, they're paying 2.90 on an AB win by 1-12 points, but only 2.00 on a win by 13+. I still think 14 is a more realistic margin. |
I think we should go with the sportstab odds. Is 12 points something we can all agree on? If so put me down for 20 gold on the All Blacks.
Last edited by Caligastia on 18-07-2002 at 00:54
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Caligastia
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Why dont we have a vote? I vote 12 points. We average out what everyone votes for and go with that...
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:20
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but a theory doing the rounds here is that RL's too entrenched actually to die out and that its future is primarily as a very localised sport |
I doubt it will die – but it’s future as a top TV contract backed sport is very doubtful here. I think there’s a significant difference between the UK and Australia with RL in that here it isn’t a bigger sport by any means – there is a much healthier Union Infrastructure throughout all of the country but the North West of England. We therefore don’t have the ‘hearts and minds’ challenge that faces the ARU in pulling the drones away from the tedium that is RL.
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I wasn't making light of your back spasm, Havak, far from it. |
Don’t worry – I never took it that way.
I can see plenty of humour in a ‘big strong bloke’ like myself being laid low by a few stressed ligaments however.
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Besides, Caligastia know he only occupies the throne at our pleasure. |
Without wanting to sound sycophantic sometimes I love the way you phrase things. Of course occupying the throne has some very different connotations in the UK
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If they were playing in SA, and at altitude, I'm sure that would be a factor. |
oops – dumb Havak got the venue wrong. I was working on the 6N one home, one away pattern…DOH!
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As I said much earlier, I think it was a very early bluff for the S12 and Tri-Nation negotiations in 2005 |
Sorry I missed that. You are dead right of course.
Thanks Tamerlin for the background on your anthem – fascinating stuff.
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are even considering the lyrics are too violent and that they ought to be modified in order to soften the anthem |
Most countries have moral minorities trying this – there’s a whole verse of God Save the King/Queen that glorifies killing rebellious Scots, Flower of Scotland is all about killing the English and most Welsh rugby songs contain anti-English lyrics. On the whole it doesn’t bother me too much – these songs after all reflect our history as a nation and the history of the UK is knocking seven bells out of each other.
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If any of those three could be considered major it would be Ireland. |
 They are a promising side. Where they suffer is they have less depth than the Australians even. This was exposed very badly in NZ in June – the second string can’t quite cut it.
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all the national anthems of the SH would be far more impressive if there weren't sang by a singer and if we could hear the crowd as in the six nations tournament |
I agree with this. I have to admit hearing the crowds in Edinburgh, Cardiff, Paris and Dublin sing the anthem and other rugger songs is awesome. The hairs on my neck stood on end when I heard the French singing their anthem for the 2001 Cup final in Paris and that was in the old, small, Park De Prince.
I doubt Finbar will mind me saying that Aussie crowds struggle to get involved. They don’t sing and their support is limited mainly to shouting “Go Wallabies”? When losing they go very very quiet – which is a massive contrast to the Celts for sure who sing all the louder (particularly the Irish) and even the French and English who adopt a resigned “what the hell” attitude. On the plus side Finbar you might say this is because we are more used to losing?
I am not sure how NZ crowds behave having never, to my shame, seen the ABs live – but then you do keep turning down our requests for fixtures Caligastia (admittedly we ask you to only bring 13 players).
On a different note can I go 30 on the ABs please Finbar?
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
On the whole it doesn’t bother me too much – these songs after all reflect our history as a nation and the history of the UK is knocking seven bells out of each other. |
I couldn't agree more, many people underestimate the importance of history. Many people don't realize that some decisions can wipe out several decades or centuries of history.
For example : the creation of provinces was envisoned in the French Rugby Championship, though the idea is rather seducing it would sweep up the history of the clubs merged to form the said province. As far as the Stade Toulousain is concerned, a rich history more than a century old would then be sweeped up, 15 champion titles would be condemned to disappear with the fading memories of its former supporters. 
To a lesser extent, the decision to replace the letters of the Leicester Tigers shirts with numbers is also removing an old tradition. 
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I have to admit hearing the crowds in Edinburgh, Cardiff, Paris and Dublin sing the anthem and other rugger songs is awesome. The hairs on my neck stood on end when I heard the French singing their anthem for the 2001 Cup final in Paris and that was in the old, small, Park De Prince. |
Yeaaaaah ! I couldn't have said it better.
I've seen two French Championship Final at the "Parc des Princes" and two at the "Stade de France" (all won by the Stade Toulousain ), the later one is nothing compared to our old "Parc des Princes". With something like 30,000 people less than the "Stade de France" the crowd of the "Parc des Princes" managed to produce ten times more noise. The "Stade de France" is cold and widely open to the air where the "Parc des Prince" is a hot and closed space I like to label as a caldron.
Moreover, playing the final and international rugby matches at the Stade de France has also wiped out several decades of history.
This is also true for the "Arm's park" (they should'nt have changed the name) and before long to "Lansdowne Road".
Last edited by Tamerlin on 18-07-2002 at 14:59
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17-07-2002 13:25
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