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Ramo is offline Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:35 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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That would only imply that my delusions say thousands of other people saw it at the same time.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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Question  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:36
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
God can violate physics. After all, he created physics.


He did? Where's the proof?

King of Rasslin is offline King of Rasslin
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:39
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The universe should still be packed into that black hole because of gravity. The big bang shouldn't have happened. God made it happen.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:47 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
The universe should still be packed into that black hole because of gravity. The big bang shouldn't have happened. God made it happen.


You have no idea what you're talking about. There is no satisfactory physical theory that could explain what happens at a singularity.

Lung is offline Lung
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:50 Visit Lung's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
God can violate physics. After all, he created physics.


Er, by definition, if you break a rule, it's not technically a "rule" anymore

You see, if the laws of physics changed, whether by god or any other means, we would cease to exist. We can only exist with the laws of physics we have. There's just no getting around it!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
The universe should still be packed into that black hole because of gravity. The big bang shouldn't have happened. God made it happen.


How does that follow? How does Big Bang prove your god? What evidence is there that your god made Big Bang happen?

Lung is offline Lung
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:58 Visit Lung's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
The universe should still be packed into that black hole because of gravity. The big bang shouldn't have happened. God made it happen.


What makes you think the big bang came from a black hole? Anyway, if god made it happen, how can he be part of it? To be part of the universe that you made would be to create oneself

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 08:59
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Hey Lung, feeling the urge?

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:01 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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God hid all the skeletons to test the common sense of fundamentalists.

Lung is offline Lung
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:03 Visit Lung's homepage!
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What urge are you talkin' about, UR?

King of Rasslin is offline King of Rasslin
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:05
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Something cannot come from nothing, so the fact that we are here today should be proof enough that God is out there.

As for physics, God can break the rules. They are still rules because no one else can break them.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:10 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
As for physics, God can break the rules. They are still rules because no one else can break them.


Run that by me again

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:15 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Something cannot come from nothing, so the fact that we are here today should be proof enough that God is out there.


Why do you assume there was ever "nothing?"

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:30
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Horse,

Good one


quote:
Originally posted by Lung
What urge are you talkin' about, UR?


What do you think? The urge to crush some creationists, of course.

Lung is offline Lung
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:30 Visit Lung's homepage!
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There is no way to tell what there was before the big bang. It is purely an assumption that the big bang was created from nothing. In fact, it's more likely that everything existed in non-dimensional space. There is evidence of this today, as at the quantum level, particles can be considered to be "non-local". There is a disparity between the macro universe and the micro-universe. The big bang may have been the creation of this disparity. I haven't gone into details, but i can if you want.

Importantly, time is dimensional, so perhaps time didn't exist before the big bang. If there was no time, can there possibly be a time *before* the big bang?

Physics makes my brain hurt

Lung is offline Lung
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:31 Visit Lung's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What do you think? The urge to crush some creationists, of course.


Why, just yesterday i was lamenting the absence of creationist nonsense at Apolyton

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:32
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
Something cannot come from nothing, so the fact that we are here today should be proof enough that God is out there.


You aren't explaining anything. You are just repeating yourself.

quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
As for physics, God can break the rules.


Stop repeating yourself over and over. A bald assertion repeated a thousand times is still a bald assertion.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:35
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There are also other theories about how the universe came about. There is the M-Theory (IIRC) that says something about higher dimensional membrances crashing into each other.

It does make my brain hurt

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:38 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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The big bang is actually a good proof for a creator.

*runs*

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:43
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Skah! Missed the beginning, I always love these religion debates

quote:
You have to say that the universe was created because things cannot just "appear."

Why is it that all Christians seem to be completely ignorant of Quantum Dynamics? The above has been proven to be wrong thanks to our little friends known as virtual particles that do in fact just "appear."

quote:
Pherhaps outside our universe there are other laws, and something can actually pop out of nothing there.

Aaaargh Cybershy, remember our debate? How many do I need to tell you that things can pop out of nothing in this universe?

quote:
Something cannot come from nothing, so the fact that we are here today should be proof enough that God is out there.

However, unlike virtual particles and whatnot, we've never observed a god appear out of nothing. Thus God appearing out of nothing is far less likely than a universe appearing out of nothing, so the existance of the universe hardly proves the existance of a creating entities much less a god much less the god that lives in your head.

quote:
no........ is it any good?

Fairly well written, but it hasn't aged that well, seems pretty dated now...

quote:
everybody that says something else is a stupid creationist, and being a stupid creationist ruins your career

But then this wouldn't explain why the numberous christian colleges in the states couldn't do at least something to buck this, especially since they carry out real purges of non-Creationists.

quote:
pherhaps because the dating system doesn't work?

But there's multiple dating systems, strange that they all don't work so consistendly as to provide the same results.

[quote]from animals who died by burying very quickly in most cases (big flood anyone?) [/quotes]
Doesn't explain the manner in which the fossils are sorted.

King of Rasslin is offline King of Rasslin
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:43
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I have to repeat myself because some people don't understand me. I am explaining it. Because nothing except God can create something from nothing (wine from water), God is the only way we can exist. Life (or the universe, for that matter) doesn't just "pop" into existence unless it is by God.

And if you say something that God can do isn't a rule of physics, then you can throw the laws of physics out the window because God can do anything!!! Just because God can do anything doesn't mean we can.

Lung is offline Lung
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Mar 1999
time: 15:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:45 Visit Lung's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The big bang is actually a good proof for a creator.

*runs*


Well, it is at least the best place for the intervention of a creator However, it remains to be seen whether such a creator could actually interact with the universe once it was created In any case, it just opens up the possibility of something creating lots of universes with different physics, none of which it could interact with

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
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Mar 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:48
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quote:
Because nothing except God can create something from nothing (wine from water),


Actually, it is possible for base metals to be turned into gold with our modern technology by re-arranging atom structures, etc. but the effort and cost to do so would be far greater than the price of the produced gold.


thanks

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:49 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin

Because nothing except God can create something from nothing (wine from water).


Er isn't that actually creating something from something? (wine from water)



How old are you by the way?

King of Rasslin is offline King of Rasslin
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:50
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Alchemy just doesn't work! It was tried for centuries and it didn't work, and by now we know that it is impossible. And re-arranging isn't the same as creating from nothing.

King of Rasslin is offline King of Rasslin
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:51
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"How old are you by the way?"

That is violating TOS. I'm nice so I won't report you. Watch it.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:52
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wine from water isnt creating from nothing...

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:52
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quote:
Because nothing except God can create something from nothing

Hmmm guess he didn't read my post, now I'm going to have to repeat myself again. THE ABOVE IS WRONG!
http://www.infidels.org/library/mod...tic/vacuum.html

Lung is offline Lung
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  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:52 Visit Lung's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
I have to repeat myself because some people don't understand me. I am explaining it. Because nothing except God can create something from nothing (wine from water), God is the only way we can exist. Life (or the universe, for that matter) doesn't just "pop" into existence unless it is by God.

And if you say something that God can do isn't a rule of physics, then you can throw the laws of physics out the window because God can do anything!!! Just because God can do anything doesn't mean we can.


How so? You are not explaining anything. God, i love fulfilling this urge! Oops, i meant Thor

Don't you see? Logically, only by being outside the universe can one be free from the physical constraints of the universe! To be part of a universe is to be constrained by it. Only proof to the contrary, or at least testable and repeatable evidence of it, can be used to argue against it. Of course, i forgot that logic never comes into the equation for you

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:20
  Old Post 18-07-2002 09:55 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
"How old are you by the way?"

That is violating TOS. I'm nice so I won't report you. Watch it.


You're a tosser?

I'd say 12 and half, 13 tops.

 
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