18-07-2002 09:56									#211
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You wont report him?!

You know what Rasslin... I can see why you now got a chip on your shoulder... you come here missionarying and people respond questioning the truth of your God... this is understandable. The thing is, you must defeat their arguements and prove the validity of your beliefs. You must fully understand what they say, slowly think out a logical resonse, being wary of contradictions and logic traps, post it, and repeat. Paul did not spread Christianity by simply saying God is absolute and all other beliefs are false because of some gut feeling...


thanks

	18-07-2002 09:59									#212
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin Alchemy just doesn't work! It was tried for centuries and it didn't work, and by now we know that it is impossible. And re-arranging isn't the same as creating from nothing.

Alchemy doesn't work simply because it's not scientific. Sound familiar? Alchemy was the precursor to chemistry, and chemistry allows changes to be made at the atomic level. As it stands, we can make wine, and do so in vast quantities. It remains to be seen whether Jesus actually turned water into wine instantly

	18-07-2002 10:02									#213
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quote: Life (or the universe, for that matter) doesn't just "pop" into existence unless it is by God.

You are totally ignorant about Physics. Stop arguing.
1. Most Big Bang based theories assume that the universe started as an incredibly massive singularity. The Universe probably didn't start as "nothing."
2. Matter can indeed "pop" into existence. Due to the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, time and energy are paired quantities. That is, during a very short time, the uncertainty of energy may be very large. So there are energetic, very shortlived particles "popping" into existence all the time - the virtual particles Boshko referred to.

	18-07-2002 10:05									#214
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin Alchemy just doesn't work! It was tried for centuries and it didn't work, and by now we know that it is impossible.

Wait a minute - weren't you telling us before that God can do impossible things

I'm getting REALLY confused now

	18-07-2002 10:09									#215
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"You're a tosser?

I'd say 12 and half, 13 tops."

Everyone has to obey the rules of physics, and the rules of Apolyton forums. You aren't supposed to ask for people's age here.

"1. Most Big Bang based theories assume that the universe started as an incredibly massive singularity. The Universe probably didn't start as "nothing.""

So, God made a singularity first, then made it explode (and singularities do not do that naturally. That's why God would have to do it). So what, God still made it all.

"2. Matter can indeed "pop" into existence. Due to the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, time and energy are paired quantities. That is, during a very short time, the uncertainty of energy may be very large. So there are energetic, very shortlived particles "popping" into existence all the time - the virtual particles Boshko referred to."

But God made time too! Duh!!! He isn't going allow some particles to "pop" without his permission. He made time and he made it so they can do that.

	18-07-2002 10:14									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo 1. Most Big Bang based theories assume that the universe started as an incredibly massive singularity. The Universe probably didn't start as "nothing." 2. Matter can indeed "pop" into existence. Due to the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, time and energy are paired quantities. That is, during a very short time, the uncertainty of energy may be very large. So there are energetic, very shortlived particles "popping" into existence all the time - the virtual particles Boshko referred to.

Jesus - I prefer the bible version.

See? I can blaspheme and make a statement of faith at the same time

	18-07-2002 10:17									#217
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quote: (and singularities do not do that naturally. That's why God would have to do it

I already refuted this assertion. No physical theories satisfactorily explain the events at a singularity.

You're completely ignorant about physics; stop making a fool of yourself.

quote: But God made time too! Duh!!! He isn't going allow some particles to "pop" without his permission. He made time and he made it so they can do that.

Dude, what are you on?

	18-07-2002 10:17									#218
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I'm progressing here! First of all, there is a God out there, regardless of how the universe was made. That is what I'm trying to tell you. God made the universe in 6 days, but I'm just trying to show you that nothing can exist without Him.

	18-07-2002 10:19									#219
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"I already refuted this assertion. No physical theories satisfactorily explain the events at a singularity.

You're completely ignorant about physics; stop making a fool of yourself."

Even in a singularity, gravity is there. If gravity wasn't there, then light could escape from a black hole. But we know that light cannot escape from a black hole, so therefore gravity is in there. To make a black whole explode, only God can do it.

	18-07-2002 10:22									#220
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quote: I'm just trying to show you that nothing can exist without Him.

You've completely failed in "showing" this. Because you don't know a thing about physics.

	18-07-2002 10:25									#221
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"You've completely failed in "showing" this. Because you don't know a thing about physics."

What do you know? You tell me how the universe was created.

	18-07-2002 10:28									#222
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I'd probably search for non-deity related causes

the story is a farse.

And so is Sodom and Gomorrah. Most likely it was natural causes or even a war turned into a story about god. And if it was god's doing, i wouldn't want him as my god anyway...

	18-07-2002 10:29									#223
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quote: Even in a singularity, gravity is there. If gravity wasn't there, then light could escape from a black hole. But we know that light cannot escape from a black hole, so therefore gravity is in there. To make a black whole explode, only God can do it.

At the point of the singularity it is impossible to predict physical behavior. We have no idea what happens. It's very simple. Understand?

"God dun it" is not the only explanation.

	18-07-2002 10:32									#224
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King - people use religion as a means to answer questions that they can't answer themselves, or questions where answers are not found easily. It's been done throughout history. As we as people discover real answers to our questions, we depend less and less on religion myth legend and folklore to make sense of the universe.

Believe in God if you want, but you can't prove it so don't even try.

	18-07-2002 10:34									#225
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""God dun it" is not the only explanation."

That is true. But "God dun it" is the only correct explanation. Singularities become infinitely smaller, and physics do not break down in them. And if the universe was created from one, why won't another universe emerge from the hundreds of black holes we have now?

Orange, the Bible isn't wrong. It is the word of God and everything in it is true. If you don't want God as your god, then are you like the people living in Sodom or Gomorrah? A sinner wasting his life? God didn't wipe them out without reason!

	18-07-2002 10:40									#226
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quote: What do you know?

More than you.

quote: You tell me how the universe was created.

I don't know, but a Big Bang combined with some Inflation theory seems probable.

quote: Singularities become infinitely smaller, and physics do not break down in them.

Uh, no. Our physical theories do break down in them.

quote: And if the universe was created from one, why won't another universe emerge from the hundreds of black holes we have now?

We have no idea what's going on at the singularity. How many times do I have to tell you that?

quote: Orange, the Bible isn't wrong. It is the word of God and everything in it is true. If you don't want God as your god, then are you like the people living in Sodom or Gomorrah? A sinner wasting his life? God didn't wipe them out without reason!

I see you're a Civvie-style missionary.

	18-07-2002 10:44									#227
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i'm just waiting for...

"Gays are demon offspring"
"Shut up, you're banned"



Sorry King, my only regret is that if I'm right about God and afterlife, when we are both dead, i won't be able to rub it in your face.

	18-07-2002 10:44									#228
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If physics break down in singularities, forget about them ever making a universe. If we really don't know anything about them (I'm not a scientist) then we can't think that they made everything we know today.

And I know how the universe was made, and you don't. Probably because you don't believe in God, hmm? Your "big bang" has never been observed. In fact, nothing that could make a universe has been observed. That is why God, who cannot be observed, made the universe.

	18-07-2002 10:46									#229
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Gays are sinners. Simple as that. But I'm not going to "throw the first stone" here. I know that if they are sorry for their sins Jesus will forgive them. God is very forgiving, and people like you should be grateful.

	18-07-2002 10:50									#230
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I'm grateful for a lot of things. For example, the intelligence to shrug off your drivel.

	18-07-2002 10:52									#231
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin God made the universe in 6 days.

Those must have been a busy few days for the old guy.

Which day did He put the fossils and dinosaur bones in the ground and the sea shells on mountain tops to confuse the Godless who are going to hell?

	18-07-2002 10:54									#232
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quote: If physics break down in singularities, forget about them ever making a universe. If we really don't know anything about them (I'm not a scientist) then we can't think that they made everything we know today.

Holy logical fallacy, Batman.

I suppose because some guy in the 14th century didn't know about microparasites, they can't cause diseases.

quote: Your "big bang" has never been observed. In fact, nothing that could make a universe has been observed.

There is plenty of evidence that the Big Bang occurred - the background radiation and the red shift. However there is no evidence for the existence of a God.

	18-07-2002 10:59									#233
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Ok, but there is no evidence of *how* the Big Bang supposedly occured. Because of this, than God should be the answer because nothing has been observed to prove how the universe was made. And the Big Bang would have to have a cause, and singularities would not be the answer.

And how do you know that dino's weren't hunted out or died from post Flood climate changes? You know, there IS something in the Loch Ness lake. Fish swam up to the mountains during the Flood.

	18-07-2002 11:02									#234
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Dinosaurs were hunted out!

That's priceless

Hey, because of no evidence of how the big bang occured, I say we credit life and the universe to...um...let's see...Stefu.

	18-07-2002 11:05									#235
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So? If you scientists believe mammoths were hunted out, why not dinosaurs? And since when does believing in God make you an idiot? I think you are an idiot if you don't believe in God.

	18-07-2002 11:07									#236
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you're not an idiot for believing in God, you're an idiot for thinking that "because this is what I believe, that's why" stands up in an argument.

	18-07-2002 11:14									#237
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But what I believe is the truth. That is why it stands up in an arguement.

	18-07-2002 11:21									#238
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin ""God dun it" is not the only explanation." That is true. But "God dun it" is the only correct explanation. Singularities become infinitely smaller, and physics do not break down in them. And if the universe was created from one, why won't another universe emerge from the hundreds of black holes we have now?

You are in fact wrong. Physics does break down at the point of the big bang, because the theory of general relativity breaks down when it approaches infinity. Anyway, who said universes don't emerge from black holes? You seem to be referring to a hypothesis popular a couple of decades back.

quote: Orange, the Bible isn't wrong. It is the word of God and everything in it is true. If you don't want God as your god, then are you like the people living in Sodom or Gomorrah? A sinner wasting his life? God didn't wipe them out without reason!

Here we go with the bald assertions again You can't prove a single thing from the bible. It's entire premise is "it's true because it says so here". You believe in the bible because you were told that it's true. You have never viewed the bible objectively, so you are in no position to argue for it. Science, on the other hand, demands that you view accepted truths objectively. All scientific knowledge can be disproven if proven otherwise. Religion does not allow for this, so you are unqualified to state a case for the bible factually.

Actually, i like Sodom and Gomorrah. Some natural disaster wipes them out, and neighbouring villagers say "they obviously deserved it. I hear that they were all perverts!" Shortly thereafter it was accepted as fact. Don't you just love hearsay?

	18-07-2002 11:21									#239
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Someday...maybe...if you're lucky...you'll wise up...

	18-07-2002 11:32									#240
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Fire from heaven destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. No "natural event" did that. God did.