22-07-2002 20:06									#121
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quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Why will we lose our national identity? I am proud to be English and British, but that doesn't mean I don't want to join the Euro or see the EU become more unified, nor does it mean I'll go into an apoplectic rage the moment I have to use currency without the monarch on it.

That's the right attitude . Btw, you could keep the Queen on the coins, as the backside of them is free area for each member state.

	22-07-2002 20:07									#122
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Hmm, well I DO have the European flag in my avie I guess. Personally I think Belgium isn't useful to the people anymore, so we should just ditch it.

	22-07-2002 20:11									#123
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Getting rid of the Queen off the coins is one of the bonuses of joining!

	22-07-2002 20:33									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Still Germany takes more than twice as much immigrants and asylum seekers as France and UK together.

Problem with that if Germany toughens immigartion laws everybody will satrt scremaing that the nazis are taking over. You see Germany is still paying for its past although I do not actually agree with that fact.

I don't see why a European State will neccesary conflict with your national indentity. There are myriad of examples which show us that this is simply not true. Take me for example I think of myself as kid of Europe but I am proud to be Greek. I've taken advantage of fact that labour movement easy and I left Greece for greener pastures, albeit a bit more cloudy and rainy, but I found a job and I am hapier than ever with my career. But I still feel Greek and tears of joy are shed when I visit my beloved home.

As another example take the Greeks that have lived for over 30 years in far away places like Australia and the States. Many of them haven't been back to Greece since they left but believe are very proud to be Greek, even 3rd generation Greeks that live in the States still indetify themselves as Greek.

Yet as another example take USA. At it's birth the population of the british colonies all felt different from each other, they indentified themselves as Virginians, Bostonians, etc. Well a lot of them still do after 225 years. A true Virginian is a Virginian before he's American it's nothing wrong with that.

If you scale the whole thing down you will see that you actually indentify yourself more with your local area but that doesn't keep you from being indentified as a Greek, German, etc. In other words I come from a small village in Northern Greece. I first indentify myself with my village then with my state/county/perfecture/, then maybe with a greater region, then Country nad at the end of the chain comes Europe. Now none of these cancel the other ones out. It's excactly this fact that will help us Europeans and World as a whole to avoid history from repeating itself and instead we can progress and become a better world.

Boys, this will keep Europe which has been ravaged by wars, diseases, genocide and other man made tragedies from happening again because I realize that we all are human beings like my familiar environment without the need to lose my indentity.

So I will say again to the European Flag and I'd actually like to be able to have double flags in this case, i.e. Europe/Greece, Europe/Belgium, etc.

So long...

	22-07-2002 20:45									#125
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quote: 3) Finland, 2nd OFFICIAL language is English

Hnu? Second official language of Finland is Swedish! Thoguh it shouldn't be mutter mutter lousy Swedish People's Party mutter mutter English isn't an official language, though most people know it.

	22-07-2002 20:51									#126
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer Problem with that if Germany toughens immigartion laws everybody will satrt scremaing that the nazis are taking over. You see Germany is still paying for its past although I do not actually agree with that fact.

I have no problem with the fact of the big immigration, at the countrary, if it would not be, the German population would die out on the long run. (Seems we're impotent here, doesn't it? Stop gloating, your population is decreasing too.) And I would highly appreciate, if our moronic politicians (not that I would have elected them...) would finally get this bill of immigration on the right way. So they scream, Germany is a national state and not an immigration country? The numbers show this differently.

	22-07-2002 20:54									#127
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without reading the thread: why not have 2 flags, 1 for national/regional/state flag and 1 for union/federal flag?

or why not 3? I could use Finlands, Lapplands and Eu's flags.

	22-07-2002 20:55									#128
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We might need immigration in the future, and I personally I'm all for a multicultural society (maybe with bit of Leitkultur in it (as in every other country :rolleys: ) ), but nowadays we lack the employment capacities to aford more immigration.

	22-07-2002 21:04									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Paris 2) Sweden, 2nd second OFFICIAL language is English and 3rd is German

This post is weird like that. Sweden has no official language at all, so English could hardly be the second. English is the first foreign language taught in school tho, but there is no standard second foreign language. It's usually ends up being German, French or Spanish.

(Edit: Bad math.)

	22-07-2002 21:10									#130
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Is Swedish not an official language in Sweden?

	22-07-2002 21:11									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Is Swedish not an official language in Sweden?

No.

Edit: Or rather, not by law anyway.

	22-07-2002 21:13									#132
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What do they speak in offices then? I used to think that an official language is the same that is spoken in official institutions, and the only one there.

	22-07-2002 21:17									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I used to think that an official language is the same that is spoken in official institutions, and the only one there.

You were wrong.

	22-07-2002 21:17									#134
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They speak Swedish, of course. But AFAIK there's no law that says they have to. It's as with English in the United States.

	22-07-2002 22:04									#135
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but you aren't from les Etats-Unis?

	22-07-2002 22:28									#136
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EU for making intra european war impossible if nothing else.

	22-07-2002 22:46									#137
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quote: Well, maybe because there are not many latin people here, and people north of Germany seem to be mostly nationalistic

I think most northern Europeans are against the EU is because they are more industrious, and prosperous. Joining the EU will give Europe synergistic benefits, yes, but most will be to the southern members.

Also the benefits enjoyed by the south also have the tendency to look like costs to the north. e.g Britain will gain little from the Euro, but will lose a lot if it does not join.

quote: you probably noticed it, I'm not very fond of Britain's European policy

Neither am I. Its a lot better than it was, at least we aren't claiming our ball back and running away with it. Now we're just moaning at the referee. The sooner we start playing the game the sooner we will see the tangible benefits of Europe.

	23-07-2002 00:33									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin The sooner we start playing the game the sooner we will see the tangible benefits of Europe.

And what exactly, pray tell, are the tangible benefits of Europe?

	23-07-2002 01:48									#139
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Harmonisation of economies and political policies leads to more stable and efficient environments.

e.g Members of the euro zone have removed exchange rate variation and thus risk from European trading - they are more stable. More transparent pricing helps companies to find their goods at the best prices - i.e they are more efficient.

	23-07-2002 03:26									#140
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Canada should join the EU and give the US (aka 11th province) the finger.

	23-07-2002 04:35									#141
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easier travelling inside of Europe, more concentrated power against the united states etc etc

	23-07-2002 04:37									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion ...more concentrated power against the united states etc etc

Well, here´s still a lot of work needed I´d say

	23-07-2002 04:40									#143
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well, we're already closer than eu opponents ever wanted us to be... them are us arselickers.

	23-07-2002 04:44									#144
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"eu opponents ever wanted us to be" > contradicts < "more concentrated power against the united states"

	23-07-2002 04:45									#145
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eu opponents inside of the eu

	23-07-2002 04:45									#146
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well, one "us" is "us" and one "us" is "US"

	23-07-2002 04:46									#147
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With the strong Axis of Berlin and Paris I think things will move forward.

It's all french to me but Germany has certaintly not let this thing go to waste and has contributed vastly.

Without the Axis of Berlin - Paris things would have moved very very slowly, if at all...

	23-07-2002 04:47									#148
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ahh, I thought US is us and vice versa

	23-07-2002 04:49									#149
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Yep, paiktis... now look at it, conservative nazis gain power everywhere in europe.... that means no EU for another 2 thousand years...

	23-07-2002 04:59									#150
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Oh well. It's just 2000 years.