23-07-2002 02:51									#151
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Or how about a cool quote from my dad: "You're a gentleman and a scholar, and a fine judge of women and wine!"

	23-07-2002 03:05									#152
	Put an end to popups!

On speaking of Apple's future, check out this poll. You may also like to read the news story while you are at it.

	23-07-2002 03:08									#153
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

ZDNet polls have a history of being rigged (companies that are the subject of the polls email out a memo saying to vote a certain option). I'm not just saying this, it's been proven to have happened with companies before (Microsoft is the big one off the top of my head).

Take everything you read from online polls with a grain of salt.

What you should be looking at is how Apple has just faced a steep decline in demand for their computers, how their marketshare has dropped to 3.9% worldwide from 5.xx% 5 years ago...

	23-07-2002 03:10									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have to concur that Apple's market share has dramatically fallen. They can't keep up.

	23-07-2002 03:12									#155
	Got spare money?

http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/17/07...yahoo&referrer=

quote: But given Apple's sales of late, it's probably just as well that it's saving its major hardware updates for better days. The iMac may have looked like a hit when it first launched earlier this year; apparently that's not quite the case. Apple conceded in its third-quarter earnings report on July 16 that sales of the machine were not living up to expectations, which, given the fact that iMac sales accounted for about 29% of Apple's revenue in the quarter, is not good news.

	23-07-2002 03:12									#156
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Asher ZDNet polls have a history of being rigged (companies that are the subject of the polls email out a memo saying to vote a certain option). I'm not just saying this, it's been proven to have happened with companies before (Microsoft is the big one off the top of my head). Take everything you read from online polls with a grain of salt.

Ah, that's just pure speculation. No dice cumberbund!

quote: What you should be looking at is how Apple has just faced a steep decline in demand for their computers, how their marketshare has dropped to 3.9% worldwide from 5.xx% 5 years ago...

Yeah, 5 YEARS AGO! This is here and now. Today. Or rather recently, to be precise. Just look at the date on ZDnet.

	23-07-2002 03:14									#157
	Support Apolyton

quote: Yeah, 5 YEARS AGO! This is here and now. Today. Or rather recently, to be precise. Just look at the date on ZDnet.

Erhm, he said it fell from 5-6% (five years ago) to 3.9% today. He is talking about today. And it is still falling.

	23-07-2002 03:14									#158
	Suffering from ads?

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/020716/tech_apple_earns_5.html

quote: Apple Earnings Slide, Outlook Cautious By Peter Henderson SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Apple Computer Inc. (NasdaqNM:AAPL - News) on Tuesday reported a 48 percent slide in quarterly earnings and issued a cautious outlook for the current quarter in a blow to the financial recovery it began last year.

Ouch.

	23-07-2002 03:16									#159
	Suffering from ads?

BTW, Cloud9, that poll you linked to isn't dated and there's also no link to the news story associated with it.

	23-07-2002 03:17									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

And some hard numbers for you about Apple's market share, from Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020114/cover2.html

quote: But Apple's annual revenues have dropped from $8 billion to less than $6 billion, and the company continues to lose market share to the Microsoft-Intel-dominated world. A little more than 4% of new PCs sold in the U.S. are Macs. (Don't ask about worldwide sales, where Apple has actually slipped to less than 3% of the market, from 5.2% five years ago.) With Microsoft's antitrust troubles tabled for now and a new operating system, Windows XP, that's stabler and simpler to use than ever, Apple will be hard pressed to attract converts.

	23-07-2002 03:20									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

oops, wrong link. here you go.

	23-07-2002 03:21									#162
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That new IMac is a child's toy. And that poll looks very suspicious.

	23-07-2002 03:22									#163
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ah, an editorial. How wonderful.

It's dated February 2002. My stuff is dated from late July 2002, and talks about how Apple isn't meeting sales expectations for those very same iMacs.

Editorials are nice and all, especially since there's bound to be one on the internet for every opinion, but it proves nothing...

	23-07-2002 03:24									#164
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Fez That new IMac is a child's toy. And that poll looks very suspicious.

It's quite simple, really. The vast majority of PC users wouldn't click on that link if they saw it on ZDNet. I know I wouldn't.

Why would I want to read an editorial about some guy who likes an iMac?

It's obvious that the Mac users were the majority that read it, and voted accordingly.

	23-07-2002 03:25									#165
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Asher http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/17/07...yahoo&referrer=

quote: Originally posted by Asher http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/020716/tech_apple_earns_5.html Ouch.

quote: Originally posted by Asher And some hard numbers for you about Apple's market share, from Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020114/cover2.html

Ah, it! Apple's switch campaign that's targets PC users just began very recently. We'll have to see what happens in the coming years.

	23-07-2002 03:27									#166
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

There's always something, isn't there, Cloud9?

Look, it's obvious no matter what anyone says, no matter how much evidence mounts up against you, you're not going to change your mind.

Why don't you just get the thread locked and go buy your Mac?

	23-07-2002 03:29									#167
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I still have a link to post.

	23-07-2002 03:30									#168
	Put an end to popups!

Don't bother, if everyone in the world shot it down you'd still go "Well after I buy it I'll see that you ARE ALL LYING TO ME " and buy it anyway.

Don't waste your time.

	23-07-2002 07:35									#170
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The decline in PC sales did not only affect Apple; it affected the entire PC market:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/782802.asp

http://money.cnn.com/2002/07/19/tec....reut/index.htm

http://www.reuters.com/news_article...StoryID=1221878

Despite missing expectations in Quarter 3, Apple still profited(from Nasdaq.com):

quote: Apple Reports Third Quarter Results CUPERTINO, Calif., July 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple(R) (Nasdaq: AAPL) today announced financial results for its fiscal 2002 third quarter ended June 29, 2002. For the quarter, the Company posted a net profit of $32 million, or $.09 per diluted share. These results compare to a net profit of $61 million, or $.17 per diluted share, in the year ago quarter. Revenues for the quarter were $1.43 billion, down 3 percent from the year ago quarter, and gross margins were 27.4 percent, down from 29.4 percent in the year ago quarter. International sales accounted for 42 percent of the quarter's revenues. Apple shipped 808 thousand Macintosh(R) units during the quarter, down 2 percent from the year ago quarter. "Even in this extended worldwide downturn, Apple is continuing to be profitable and continuing to innovate," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "We're working hard to attract new customers with our 'Switchers' advertising campaign and our 31 retail stores, and we're continuing to invest in a strong slate of new products, some of which we'll talk more about at Macworld New York tomorrow." "Despite the slowdown in the market, our operational efficiency was excellent," said Fred Anderson, Apple's CFO. "Our balance sheet is very strong, with $4.3 billion in cash, and we achieved a very efficient cash conversion cycle of -36 days. We expect September quarter revenues to be approximately flat with the June quarter, and expect a slight profit for the quarter before any non-recurring items." Apple will provide live streaming of its Q3 2002 financial results conference call utilizing QuickTime(R), Apple's standards-based technology for live and on-demand audio and video streaming. The live webcast will begin at 2:00 p.m. PDT on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/earningsq302/ and will also be available for replay. The QuickTime player is available free for Macintosh and Windows users at www.apple.com/quicktime. This press release contains forward-looking statements about future revenues and profit. These statements involve risks and uncertainties and actual results may differ. Potential risks and uncertainties include continued competitive pressures in the marketplace; the effect competitive and economic factors and the Company's reaction to them may have on consumer and business buying decisions with respect to the Company's products; the ability of the Company to make timely delivery of new programs, products and successful technological innovations to the marketplace; the continued availability of certain components and services essential to the Company's business currently obtained by the Company from sole or limited sources; possible disruption in commercial activities caused by terrorist activity and armed conflict, such as changes in logistics and security arrangements, and reduced end-user purchases relative to expectations; risks associated with the Company's retail initiative including significant investment cost, uncertain consumer acceptance and potential impact on existing reseller relationships; the effect that the Company's dependency on manufacturing and logistics services provided by third-parties may have on the quality or quantity of products manufactured; and the ability of the Company to successfully evolve its operating system and attract sufficient Macintosh developers. More information on potential factors that could affect the Company's financial results is included from time to time in the Company's public reports filed with the SEC, including the Company's Form 10-K for the 2001 fiscal year, and the Company's Form 10-Q for the quarter ended June 29, 2002 to be filed with the SEC.

It's interesting that Apple beat expectations for the previous 5 quarters before 3rd Quarter 2002! :

http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/17/tec...apple/index.htm
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-885301.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,11577,00.html
http://money.cnn.com/2002/01/16/tec...apple/index.htm
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-816615.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,36721,00.html
http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/17/tec...apple/index.htm
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-274582.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,29814,00.html
http://money.cnn.com/2001/07/17/tec...apple/index.htm
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-270083.html

http://money.cnn.com/2001/04/18/tec...apple/index.htm[/url]
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-256038.html

Apple suffered (lost money) in the first quarter of 2001, but made earnings the previous 3 years:

http://money.cnn.com/2001/01/17/tec...apple/index.htm
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-251105.html

	23-07-2002 07:41									#171
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Note that MS beat estimates again for Q2 2002 and Q1 2002.

Dell is also doing well.

I realize the entire market is in a bit of a slump, Cloud9, but I can't find any major computer maker that had their earnings hit by 49% in one quarter like Apple...not to mention the unexpectedly slow demand of their iMacs.

And third quarter 2002? What are you talking about?

	23-07-2002 07:43									#172
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Asher Note that MS beat estimates again for Q2 2002 and Q1 2002. Dell is also doing well. I realize the entire market is in a bit of a slump, Cloud9, but I can't find any major computer maker that had their earnings hit by 49% in one quarter like Apple...not to mention the unexpectedly slow demand of their iMacs.

I have to admit it was not unexpected to me

Jon Miller

	23-07-2002 07:43									#173
	Tired of ads?

Apple probably doesn't have enough resources to get its act together in replacing its old G4.

	23-07-2002 07:56									#174
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Asher I realize the entire market is in a bit of a slump, Cloud9, but I can't find any major computer maker that had their earnings hit by 49% in one quarter like Apple...not to mention the unexpectedly slow demand of their iMacs.

Yes, but 49% is nothing compared to what Apple made the previous 3 years!

quote: And third quarter 2002? What are you talking about?

Apple's fiscal years are different than the calendar years.

	23-07-2002 07:57									#175
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 Yes, but 49% is nothing compared to what Apple made the previous 3 years!

Yeah, same with the other companies though!
Look at MS, Dell...

	23-07-2002 08:05									#176
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher Yeah, same with the other companies though! Look at MS, Dell...

Then Apple is keeping up with it's competitors. Just because it's losing market share means nothing. Anything can happen. But if Apple has to, it will find a new and very different market to get into as IBM did; or sell itself to a larger, more powerful company as Netscape did.

	23-07-2002 08:06									#177
	Get a bigger avatar today!

How is Apple keeping up with competitors when its main competitors (like MS) beat estimates, while Apple doesn't come near to meeting them...?

How is it keeping up with competitors when its marketshare has shrunk from 5.2 to less than 3% in 5 years?

	23-07-2002 08:08									#178
	Increase Your PM Length

Mine's still available.

	23-07-2002 08:13									#179
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Asher How is Apple keeping up with competitors when its main competitors (like MS) beat estimates, while Apple doesn't come near to meeting them...?

Apple has met it's estimates for most of the quarters in the last 5 years. And can you show me a comparison between Apple and it's biggest competitors on this?

quote: How is it keeping up with competitors when its marketshare has shrunk from 5.2 to less than 3% in 5 years?

Do you have any proof to back this up?

	23-07-2002 08:14									#180
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by DaShi Mine's still available.