31-07-2002 22:53									#361
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You sound like an appeaser, Ned.

	31-07-2002 22:55									#362
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Eli: How on earth is there a hint of racism in having a opinion about what Sharon says?

Or are you refeering to the part that you elaborates in a totally inept way? I can't even understand how you made those conclutions about my post. This is starting to look Chris62 imnsho

	31-07-2002 23:05									#363
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Eli: How on earth is there a hint of racism in having a opinion about what Sharon says? Or are you refeering to the part that you elaborates in a totally inept way? I can't even understand how you made those conclutions about my post. This is starting to look Chris62 imnsho

It wasnt a direct reply to your post. Just a random thought concerning the revenge part. There are a lot of people who condemn Palestinian terrorism, support the Israeli right to exist but the emphasis they put on Pal terror and Israeli retaliations is completely disproportionate.

Suicide bomber kills 20 children in a discoteque : "I condemn terrorism".
Israel retaliates somewhere, forcing to families of suspected terrorists to leave their home for a few hours and the soldiers break something inside the house : [insert here long speech full of flames and hatred about the evils done by Israel]

And sometimes I get the impression that they do it because they dont really expect to anything better from the Pals, because of what I said in the previous post.

	31-07-2002 23:09									#364
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Maybe it has something to do with Israelis repeating the mantra "we are a democratic county".

Anyway, my post was aimed at both sides. Both says their attacks are retaliation on the other sides crimes and if some leader says he's sorry about the innocent that died in the last retaliation I take it with a pinch of salt.

	31-07-2002 23:15									#365
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin No can do, you better ask someone that knows the language in question. (I don't know why everyone seems to think I speak hebrew these days. Have I started to be to pro-Israeli?!)

No, "balabol" is a russian slang word. And your nickname so russian.

	31-07-2002 23:17									#366
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But I'm not. Your nickname sounds aztec.

	31-07-2002 23:17									#367
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Question: Do all of Likud get together and have champagne after a bombing, or does Sharon celebrate in the privacy of his office?

Yes it was the victory of Israel army.

And you didnt answer my question: aggressor somebody who attack first. Where and when Israel attacked first?

	31-07-2002 23:23									#368
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quote: Originally posted by muxec No, "balabol" is a russian slang word. And your nickname so russian.

Kropotkin was a violent anarchist. I don't know how he managed that with his royal background.

	31-07-2002 23:26									#369
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Kropotkin wasn't violent Dinodoc.

	31-07-2002 23:27									#370
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(and he wasn't exacly royal, just a nobleman)

	31-07-2002 23:33									#371
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Muxec, One of the major problems with Israel's bomb attack was that it is very clear that there was a cold, calculated decision by the government to drop a large bomb on an apartment building - an act which could not help but harm civilians - in order to kill the terrorist they were after. Sharon then goes out and calls it a "great victory" while the reports of dead Palestinian children roll in.

1. And bombing Kabul also was coldcalculated. It was necessary defence. If the army fortified in the city you can not bombard army without bombing city. You played civ3 more than enought if you can not understand that "no pain no gain".
Ok civ3 shows truth. You bombard the cityDestroy unit and city populationwasnt changed.

2. Do you remember the palestinian demonstration-celebration after terracts with guns and promises make more terracts???????????? What would be reaction of your country on yhis? There is no doubt, that your country will COMEPLETELY DESTROY them. Do you know people who was killed in terract?

	31-07-2002 23:51									#372
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And whats your opinion about Chechnya and Kashmir. Do you also consider that arabs are victims and Russia and India are aggressors?

	31-07-2002 23:56									#373
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DinoDoc tell me your mettod if you dont balabol.
(Eli, help me translate)

	31-07-2002 23:57									#374
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If I knew what you were talking about, I would.

	01-08-2002 00:13									#375
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Muxec; you could argue about who attacked who first until the cows come home (or the Llamas in your case, aztec ).

Who's winning on this war of mutual retaliation? It's not Israels goverment, it's not the Israeli people and it's not the palestinian people. Hamas is.

	01-08-2002 00:30									#376
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Muxec,

I was not defending Palestinian terrorism. Not at all. I was pointing out the problems with this particular Israeli action.

No, I do not know anyone who died in a terror attack. Luckily, I didn't lose and friends or close family on September 11 (I think I lost a cousin by marriage, but I didn't know him).

quote: Do you remember the palestinian demonstration-celebration after terracts with guns and promises make more terracts???????????? What would be reaction of your country on yhis? There is no doubt, that your country will COMEPLETELY DESTROY them.

Actually, I remember footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets on September 11th. It was widely publicised. The United States did not COMPLETELY DESTROY them.

quote: And bombing Kabul also was coldcalculated. It was necessary defence. If the army fortified in the city you can not bombard army without bombing city. You played civ3 more than enought if you can not understand that "no pain no gain".

I agree that when one is attempting to bombard an enemy in a city, avoiding civilian casualties is probably impossible. I'm sure we hit a lot of things we didn't mean to hit and killed a lot of people we didn't mean to kill. And that's not something I am particularly proud of.

Overall, I happen to believe Israel has done a pretty good job of trying to avoid killing civilians - but not this time. It seems to me that this man could have been dealt with in another way. Attacks such as these, and Sharon's attitude towards them, will make it difficult for Israel to maintain the moral highground.

-Arrian

	01-08-2002 00:44									#377
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Muxec, No, I do not know anyone who died in a terror attack. Luckily, I didn't lose and friends or close family on September 11 (I think I lost a cousin by marriage, but I didn't know him).

My co-workers were killed at 1 June 2001.

quote: Actually, I remember footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets on September 11th. It was widely publicised. The United States did not COMPLETELY DESTROY them.

If these demonstrations were serious with guns on the USA border. At the 11Sept day America also was to shocked to perform something.

quote: I'm sure we hit a lot of things we didn't mean to hit and killed a lot of people we didn't mean to kill.

We all are pure angels. I say again "No pain no gain". The Israel tried to avoid civil cassaulties, but it's hard to bomb armored terrorist's house with no cassaulties.

	01-08-2002 00:53									#378
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Do you know that you used a 1 ton bomb on an a populated area when there were lesser methods of achieving the same result?

DinoDoc! Here is YOUR post. What is your method? Could you take a gun into YOUR hands and show me and my country this genious method.
Aren't your words backed with your ass?

	01-08-2002 00:57									#379
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Israeli gifts to the Hamas will be delievered in the next few others.

	01-08-2002 01:00									#380
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian ........previous quote........... Actually, I remember footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets on September 11th. It was widely publicised. The United States did not COMPLETELY DESTROY them. -Arrian

A small addendum:

I might add that they celebrated in many places in Africa too that day. But that wasn't widely published, didn't really come further than a few newspaper articles on page 5, at least in some European newspapers.

Btw,
Those africans didn't celebrate because they saw the US as the great satan, nor malice or something. No, simply because the only thing a lot of Africans know about the USA in general is from all the lavish and extravagant goodies they see in those music gangsta videos (seems music DOES transcend all borders...) but never seemed to share with the rest of the world. For them it was just great to see that the USA could also be put down a notch.

	01-08-2002 01:06									#381
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Muxec,

First of all, I'm sorry about your co-workers.

Second, what "gain?" You mean the death of this Hamas terrorist? Ok, fine, the IDF vaporized this guy. In the process, they also killed 14 other people. The friends and relatives of those people now have a reason to hate Israel (if they didn't already).

The back and forth killing by Israel and the various Palestinian terror groups accomplishes nothing, so far as I can see, besides further inflaming hatred on both sides. A great leader would find a way out of it. Unfortunately, neither side has great leadership... and neither does the US.

-Arrian

	01-08-2002 01:08									#382
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quote: A small addendum: I might add that they celebrated in many places in Africa too that day. But that wasn't widely published, didn't really come further than a few newspaper articles on page 5, at least in some European newspapers. Btw, Those africans didn't celebrate because they saw the US as the great satan, nor malice or something. No, simply because the only thing a lot of Africans know about the USA in general is from all the lavish and extravagant goodies they see in those music gangsta videos (seems music DOES transcend all borders...) but never seemed to share with the rest of the world. For them it was just great to see that the USA could also be put down a notch.

Well isn't that lovely. As far as I'm concerned that IS malice: you have things. I don't. I want them. You won't give them to me? Then I hope you die.

**** them.

-Arrian

	01-08-2002 01:12									#383
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The 11 sept celebratons were far away of USA borders and not armed. And Palestinians on demonstration OPENLY say "we are terrorist". And they perform this demonstations in Israel and near Israel's border.

	01-08-2002 01:17									#384
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Well isn't that lovely. As far as I'm concerned that IS malice: you have things. I don't. I want them. You won't give them to me? Then I hope you die. **** them. -Arrian

Seems they already are dying by the scores. So it seems you got your wish. What now?

	01-08-2002 01:27									#385
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What wish? I don't wish death on anyone.

-Arrian

	01-08-2002 01:34									#386
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Sorry if I misunderstood, You seemed to imply it with **** them

	01-08-2002 01:39									#387
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Ah, I see. In this case, I wasn't using it that way. My basic response to those celebrations in Africa would be (directed at those who did the celebrating) anger, followed by... nothing. In other words, I don't wish anyone harm, but I'm not going to be very sympathetic to people who are happy about 9/11 because it "knocked us down a peg."

-Arrian

	01-08-2002 01:45									#388
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muxec, (btw, what exactly is a muxec?) look earlier in this thread. The whole aggression part is very well explained. I don't have time to do it all again.

Palestine belongs to the palestinians. Declaring a jewish state on any of the territory was an act of aggression. If you have issues with this, you will have to counter the arguments presented on pages 6-12. Just bleating about 'the land belonged to the jews' doesn't cut it, as I've repeatedly shown that claim to be false.

	01-08-2002 01:48									#389
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Ok, Cyber, so lets get in our time machine, go back to 1948, and prevent the creation of Israel in Mandatory Palestine. Oh, no, wait... we can't do that, can we?

Simply bleating out "the Jews started it!" doesn't solve the problem at hand.

-Arrian

	01-08-2002 01:48									#390
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Gnugubben, hur tusan orkar du hålla på i alla mellanösterntrådarna?