29-07-2002 03:44									#121
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quote: The education system was never that great in the soviet union, it was always brainwashing people.

yes, unlike the US , of course. Education is just a fancy word for brainwashing , and vice versa.

oh, and Fez , chill .

	29-07-2002 03:46									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti Dinodoc : so , to disprove it you post an alledged letter from the russian civil war?

I just like the text of the letter. How can you not get enthralled by quotes like "let's choke and strangle those blood-sucking kulaks"?

I also like to go back to the begining of an enterprise to judge its worth and not start at some preselected midpoint in order to arrive at a rigged conclusion.

	29-07-2002 03:49									#123
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in the beggining of time people were eating bananas moneypenny
much much much much later somewhere in a jungle some new neadertals were carrying black slaves and then fighting a bloody war.

	29-07-2002 03:50									#124
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and they still haven't wisen up

they are gonna have to though eventually

	29-07-2002 03:54									#125
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In other news, USSR was cool for keeping the world balance against the american menace.

A balance of terror is far better than the imblalance (-insanity) of terror we live now.

not to mention that the vultures are now trying to take apart everything Europe has built thanks to the USSR "spectre".

There is no counter force now to make them crap their pants.

	29-07-2002 03:55									#126
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oh , common , paiktis . I am trying to have an intellegent discussion and you messed it up by your trolling.

now , because of you , I have to go to bed.



good night

	29-07-2002 03:56									#127
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i am a (bored) force of good

	29-07-2002 04:00									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Fez No they werent. They were more like socialists who wanted heavy government interference with the economy.

Nazi Germany was a planned capitalist economy. So, yes it wasnīt capitalist per se. But the state didnīt own the means of production or collect the profit. That was left to the industrialists like Krupp and others like him.

quote: Like who? Can I name any that the US supported that executed twenty million of their own people?

Maybe if you add them all up? I donīt know, I havenīt found reliable figures for this. Some dictators that the US has supported is Suharto (Indonesia), The Shah of Iran, The talibans, Saddam Hussein, Pinochet, Somoza (Nicaragua), Batista (Cuba), etc. etc...

	29-07-2002 04:01									#129
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not trolling though.

elaboration.

now the US can go bomb whoever it pleases for whatever crap reason it puts forth.

could it do that when the USSR was still around? no.

imbalance of terror.

it still tries to top governments (like in venezuela) too.


was the social welfare system of Europe built because the greedy evil blood sucking worker killer capitalists were afraid that the people would riot against their exploitation and join the SU? yes

will the capitalists now try to suck the people dry again? yes

in the US they are working 12 hours a day for sh!t pay and they say thank you on top of that. completely brainwashed.

this might happen in Europe too since there is not the USSR counterforce.
so no trolling, perspective.

	29-07-2002 04:05									#130
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to put a favorite Andreas Papandreou quote here:

The numbers prosper, the people do not. (what fooking good is GDP when people have no health care, there are people homeless etc etc etc).

so let me say again: EU! (the socialist way)

that's all.

	29-07-2002 04:17									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti yes, unlike the US , of course. Education is just a fancy word for brainwashing , and vice versa. oh, and Fez , chill .

I am sorry but I am anti-communist for a very good reason.

quote: Some dictators that the US has supported is Suharto (Indonesia), The Shah of Iran, The talibans, Saddam Hussein, Pinochet, Somoza (Nicaragua), Batista (Cuba), etc. etc...

Suharto was corrupt and the US stopped supporting him after a while like Noriega. The Shah of Iran was not that bad but his plans were not on track. The talibans no... the US supported the mujahedins. The taliban were an extremist government the US never supported. Sure some of the taliban is some mujahedin commanders but Pashtun. The US mostly supported Uzbeks and Tajiks during the Soviet Occupation whom resisted. Pinochet did well to the chilean economy and made it grow and so did Somoza and Batitista to their economies. Under Somoza the economy was actually growing significantly, the same with Batitista with his country.

	29-07-2002 04:18									#132
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 it still tries to top governments (like in venezuela) too.

It didn't topple Venezuela. It just didn't.

Paiktis, your ignorance is too great to be expressed on this forum.

	29-07-2002 04:21									#133
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Russia is just as poor now as it has always been. By western standards, the government is still repressive. However, nowadays the government could never get away with killing tens of millions of its own citizens. It's a good thing the soviet empire is gone. It won't be back.

BTW: Lenin's surrender in the first world war forced germany to occupy the ukraine. This may have caused its final offensive in the west to fail.

	29-07-2002 04:39									#134
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No they can't. It infringes on the law of supply and demand therefore is illogical. Therefore it causes severe lack of supply and could cause massive shortages.

You're a doctriner. Everything can be done!

"In other news, USSR was cool for keeping the world balance against the american menace."

SU was even worse than US in that matter.
Don't dare to say to anyone from eastern Europe that
"SU was cool" in that matter.

"that's what brainwas... I mean education is for. "

Yes! But there are too many people needed here and they need to have specific qualifications... Communists aren't that numberous and nor everyone of them can be a teacher.
And even if it could be done, You'd have to separate the children from their capitalistic parents' influence.

	29-07-2002 04:47									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson You're a doctriner. Everything can be done!

You remind me of the PSOE. Everything can be done! 30% unemployment can be done too! That was in Spain pal. The Socialists literally ****ed up my country and it had to be fixed by the Conservative Popular Party. Now after the PP is done my people have jobs... and a single digit unemployment rate!

	29-07-2002 04:48									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Suharto was corrupt and the US stopped supporting him after a while like Noriega. The Shah of Iran was not that bad but his plans were not on track. The talibans no... the US supported the mujahedins. The taliban were an extremist government the US never supported. Sure some of the taliban is some mujahedin commanders but Pashtun. The US mostly supported Uzbeks and Tajiks during the Soviet Occupation whom resisted. Pinochet did well to the chilean economy and made it grow and so did Somoza and Batitista to their economies. Under Somoza the economy was actually growing significantly, the same with Batitista with his country.

Wether the dictator turned corrupt after a while or did marvels for the economy isnīt the question here. The US supported dictators, plain and simple!

And they did support the mujahedins that later were to emerge as the talibans... Fact of the matter is that the US supported the talibans because they wanted someone under their heel that provided a stable enough government to allow its business interests to go through with the proposed oil and gas route through Afghanistan. As late as 1996 the US administration had welcomed Talibans control over Kabul with Acting State Department Spokesman Glyn Davies words: "There is nothing objectionable about the version of Islamic law, the Taliban has imposed in the areas controlled by it."

	29-07-2002 04:50									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Wether the dictator turned corrupt after a while or did marvels for the economy isnīt the question here. The US supported dictators, plain and simple!

And I would of supported a dictator too.. and his name is Franco.

quote: And they did support the mujahedins that later were to emerge as the talibans...

No. They supported the Uzbek and Tajik mujahedins. The Taliban were Pashtun.

quote: Fact of the matter is that the US supported the talibans because they wanted someone under their heel that provided a stable enough government to allow its business interests to go through with the proposed oil and gas route through Afghanistan.

Well the soviets wanted a clear water port in Pakistan and didn't get it? That is why they invaded Afghanistan.

And another thing is that oil and gas route would of helped Afghanistan.

quote: As late as 1996 the US administration had welcomed Talibans control over Kabul with Acting State Department Spokesman Glyn Davies words: "There is nothing objectionable about the version of Islamic law, the Taliban has imposed in the areas controlled by it."

Then the Taliban took an extreme turn in 1998 and the US stopped supporting it.

	29-07-2002 04:53									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Fact of the matter is that the US supported the talibans because they wanted someone under their heel that provided a stable enough government to allow its business interests to go through with the proposed oil and gas route through Afghanistan.

Yes, that sounds like the reason the Taliban didn't want the pipeline.

	29-07-2002 04:54									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Fez It didn't topple Venezuela. It just didn't. Paiktis, your ignorance is too great to be expressed on this forum.

The US backed coup in Venezuela backfired for some reason or other, I havenīt figured out why yet...

And you seem a little too eager to call other people ignorant. There is more than one side of a coin you know... Itīs not ignorant to point out that there is a head to the people convinced there is only tails.

	29-07-2002 04:55									#140
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Now if this pipeline gets built... a lot of jobs can be created. Ecuador for example is going to create 50,000 jobs with a new pipeline project. Just imagine what that can be like for Afghanistan. A new fresh, good start. But pipelines don't get built overnight... it takes time.

	29-07-2002 04:56									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X The US backed coup in Venezuela backfired for some reason or other, I havenīt figured out why yet...

No it didn't. It didn't even say anything about it. That is the problem... the coup didn't have US support and backfired because there was no help. Chavez will be thrown out anyways in a couple of months and this time probably a bullet in the head as his popularity falls below 20%.

quote: And you seem a little too eager to call other people ignorant. There is more than one side of a coin you know... Itīs not ignorant to point out that there is a head to the people convinced there is only tails.

You are ignorant. Simple as that.

	29-07-2002 05:00									#142
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The united states would never have been forced to put up with dictatorial regimes if not for fear they would join the soviets...

And don't kid yourself. The soviet system was murderous and destructive. Nothing can justify the millions killed by the soviet government.

	29-07-2002 05:16									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Fez You are ignorant. Simple as that.

Itīs your response to everything that doesnīt fit into your view of the world, isnīt it? Really, Fez, have you only changed your name?

Regarding the US-Taliban relations read "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia"
by Ahmed Rashid.

Itīs too late for these discussions. Good night

	29-07-2002 05:19									#144
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Or read something by Ahmad Rashad.

Heh heh heh.

Football player.

	29-07-2002 05:21									#145
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It is getting late Kamrat, but some people remain ignorant and are ignorant of what the world is really about. They call themselves communists.

	29-07-2002 07:54									#146
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Oh good...another of Poly's infamous DL starts thread - DL banned - one person makes comment - someone gets fired up - three arguments happen at once - Giany insults communist - threads.

	29-07-2002 07:56									#147
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When the Soviets come back tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow
There'll be none.

	29-07-2002 07:57									#148
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Fab: That is apolyton my friend. I am ready to break that right now.

To the communists: How about a handshake and I will retract the rude comments I have made against you?

	29-07-2002 08:03									#149
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How many of you are serious when you say you want the Soviet Union to return? This is sickening...

	29-07-2002 08:04									#150
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Verto, what avatar?