30-07-2002 01:02									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti anyway, since people continue to present Stalin as an example of communism , I am forced to igore this thread.

It's just amazing how many people associate Communism with Stalin (and ONLY him)

	30-07-2002 01:03									#212
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Don't get me wrong, you're not getting thumb up for leaving the debate but for your rightful protest

	30-07-2002 01:09									#213
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La Russo: I am nort sure of the exact figures, and no one ever will be. (Although I believe the number was likely much greater han the numbers you gave.) The point is, any government which murders or enslaves its citizens is inexcusable and inherently meaningless. Governmet acts as a contract among all the citizens of a nation. They must respect eachother, and eachother's right to live. In return, they protect and support eachother. Unfortunately, government has too often been a case of the strong dominating the weak. It is the duty of all fre men never to allow such an abomination to occur ever again. If war is necessary to secure liberty, then so be it.

	30-07-2002 01:10									#214
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When the Soviet Union comes back, will all her satellite states come back as well?

	30-07-2002 01:20									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Unfortunately, government has too often been a case of the strong dominating the weak. It is the duty of all fre men never to allow such an abomination to occur ever again. If war is necessary to secure liberty, then so be it.

Dan, perhaps for me and you. Sometimes people value food more than liberty or perhaps security gets more important. In the end however, government ends up in bullies dominating the decent folk. Always.

	30-07-2002 01:23									#216
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso Dan, perhaps for me and you. Sometimes people value food more than liberty or perhaps security gets more important. In the end however, government ends up in bullies dominating the decent folk. Always.

Then that must change. Humans must change, or we are doomed to self-destruction. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

	30-07-2002 01:30									#217
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I'm not so interested as what happens inside the US or the former USSR but what those do to other countries

Or that's what I'm primarily interested for

And they have both to answer a lot about this.

I believe in democracy and freedom and in a mixed economy with a strong social welfare state.

that would not make me an ideal citizen for neither the US or the USSR, I think

I laughed a bit with Saras though

If in a fight between fascists and communists, I'd be with the Reds 1000%.

If between a pure democratic force and communists I'd be with the democrats.


But it was always between the communists and the fascists.

So, the asnwer is obvious.

It's more easy to be against others thought. Like another nation, then all are united (j/k).

	30-07-2002 01:32									#218
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are you calling the US fascist, man ohm an, heaven forbid

	30-07-2002 01:34									#219
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Also it is funny.

In Europe between the Iron Curtain...

in western Europe, the right wing and the US was oppressing the people, taking away civil liberties etc.

To be left wing was to actually fight for democracy.


In the other side, in eastern Europe, the left wing and the USSR were oppressing the people.

SO to fight for democracy was to be a right winger.

Simplified but stands.

	30-07-2002 01:35									#220
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Astute, to say the least

	30-07-2002 01:35									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion When the Soviet Union comes back, will all her satellite states come back as well?

You should hope not. Waiting in those bread lines might get to be tiresome for a young person such as yourself.

	30-07-2002 01:37									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion are you calling the US fascist, man ohm an, heaven forbid

not the US but political forces inside european countries. Like Greece or Italy. Those forces were clearly anti-communist and fascist. US was supporting them.

I don't know if one is fascist if he supported fascists... it's open for debate

And it was not of course always for countering the Red threat. Sometimes self interests and having pawn governments using the reds as pretext works too...

	30-07-2002 01:37									#223
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Bah, there haven't been any bread lines in Central Europe since you bombed our cities

Actually, there have been lines and lines for manufactured goods in the GDR, those were rare.

(consumer's goods, to be precise)

	30-07-2002 01:49									#224
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You're right. I was thinking about Russia itself.

	30-07-2002 01:49									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Bah, there haven't been any bread lines in Central Europe since you bombed our cities

Since you invaded the poles, the french, the czechs, The British, the greeks, the serbs, the russians, the egyptians, the norwegians...

Great argument.

	30-07-2002 01:50									#226
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Go away, n00b.

DD - that's OK. Let's invade Dan Severn now.

	30-07-2002 01:51									#227
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When did they invade the British?

Operation Sea Lion never came to fruition...

	30-07-2002 01:54									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov When did they invade the British? Operation Sea Lion never came to fruition...

They took british islands in the channel.

And I was being facetious, etchelion. I didn't mean to offend any more than ye did.

	30-07-2002 01:54									#229
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I didn't offend anyone, just you're one of those people so stupid there's no word for

	30-07-2002 01:57									#230
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Were those British islands like the Spanish one Morocco invaded?

	30-07-2002 01:59									#231
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No, we also invaded islands where actually people lived, but still, small islands...

	30-07-2002 01:59									#232
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says the troll

	30-07-2002 02:00									#233
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As for Dan S - I just love that scheme

DD makes a silly joke, I counter it by poiting out how silly it is. Then Dan comes up and tries to show everyone at which point I was being insulting in a connection that doesn't exist. Capiche?

	30-07-2002 02:00									#234
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dont pay attention to ecthelinaki Dan, he's gone

	30-07-2002 02:02									#235
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Paiktis trying to hurt my feelings again

	30-07-2002 02:03									#236
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Go and drink so much olive oil that you explode, there can't be a lot missing for that to happen...

	30-07-2002 02:09									#237
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Wow. You are a goddamned comic genius.

Paiktis will drink so much olive oil, he'll explode.

I make a joke, and you insult me.

Not that I think I'm special, you seem to follow that doctrine with everyone.

	30-07-2002 02:10									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Since you invaded the poles, the french, the czechs, The British, the greeks, the serbs, the russians, the egyptians, the norwegians... Great argument.

perhaps other countries thought the carpet bombing of dresden was cool, yugoslavs surely did not, not even as avenging of our civilian deaths. actually, the worst massacre of our civilian population during ww2 was us air force carpet bombing belgrade for no reason. they hit only worker's slums at the outskirts. killed 4 times more people than germans in 1941.

	30-07-2002 02:10									#239
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I'd kick back and wait for the rebirth of Nazi Germany.

	30-07-2002 02:11									#240
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You didn't make a joke, you tried to ridicule me based on my nation without any point to start.

Instead you took what I said and twisted it 3 or 4 times.