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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:21
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quit whining, yid
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:21
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Chris is quite similar to that, BTW.
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Dan Severn
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Wellborn, Texas The Warrior Dennis Miller
May 2001
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
interesting point. russia will always be worse than its western counterparts. we can disagree about tens of millions, but the perspective is there...they are just as bad by today's standards today as they were by past standards in 1930's |
ens of millions of political dissidentswere killed by Stalin's purges, whether you are prepared to believe it or not.
But I think you get the gist of what I'm saying. Russia has always been a relatively poor land, and poverty invites oppression.
Fez, capitalism is not god. Free market does not necessarily entail huge corporations. My beef with socialism is that it indebts people to the government. A powerful government inhibits freedom. The question one should ask is, what justification does any government have? It is only the pleasure of the people. Furtheremore, one person may not control another. Why should millions of people do the same to the general population?
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:21
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It's the first time I've heard it. There's no way that 200 million Soviets could have been sent to the gulags. There weren't 200 million Soviets to send. Anyway, the rolleyes seems to indicate he was being dismissive of Fex (which is so hard, I know  ).
Oh, so facts now. There were never more than about five million people in the gulags at any given time, mostly during and immediately after WWII. Most people were there for ordinary crimes, such as theft, assault, murder, etc. Most people served their sentence and then were released. Bascially, the gulags were the Soviet prisons. Kinda like if all Federal prisons were in Alaska. . . . Hmmmmmm. 
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moomin
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Moo Like In Moomin
Jul 2000
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There weren't tens of millions of political dissidents (speaking as a representitive of the political tendency that was most persecuted in the USSR, Trotskyism). The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000). Most of the people who died in the USSR were killed during the famine caused by the collectivisation of agriculture. I've seen figures between three and thirteen million dead for that.
In addition, a few million gulag prisoners likely starved during the war, since supplies were needed elsewhere. You have a choice, send food to your soldiers and factory workers or to convicts (the vast majority of whom were sent away for non-political crimes). It's not a really hard choice when you are on the brink of annihilation. |
Have you no shame?
Or is this disgusting argument - revisionism - intended to illustrate yet another similarity between right and left socialists (nazi and commies)?
For your information, here are the conservative estimates of Soviet victims of communist murders:
*** Soviet democide from 1917-1991
Total: 61,911,000
Terror: 8,298,000
Deportations: 4,349,000+
Concentration Camps: 39,464,000
Forced Famine 7,833,000
*** Period Years Total killed
Civil War From 1917 3,284,000
Terror: 750,000
Concentration Camps: 34,000
Forced Famine : 2,500,000
NEP 1923 2,200,000
Collectivization 1929 11,440,000
Terror: 1,733,000
Deportations: 1,400,000
Concentration Camps: 3,306,000
Forced Famine : 5,000,000
Great Terror 1936 4,345,000
Terror: 1,000,000
Deportations: 65,000
Concentration Camps: 3,280,000
Pre-WWII 1939 5,104,000
Terror: 1,932,000
Deportations: 283,000
Concentration Camps: 2,889,000
World War II 1941 13,053,000
Terror: 1,257,000
Deportations: 1,036,000
Concentration Camps: 10,761,000
Post-War 1946 15,613,000
Terror: 1,376,000
Deportations: 1,557,000
Concentration Camps: 12,348,000
Post-Stalin 1954 6,872,000
Terror: 250,000
Deportations: 8,000
Concentration Camps: 6,613,000
Figures from Rummel's _Death by Government_. Remember thes are conservative estimates.
Downplaying all these murders that your commie idols commited just to make communism look good is so far beyond decency I lack words to properly express my disgust and loathing.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Severn
ens of millions of political dissidentswere killed by Stalin's purges, whether you are prepared to believe it or not. |
There weren't tens of millions of political dissidents (speaking as a representitive of the political tendency that was most persecuted in the USSR, Trotskyism). The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000). Most of the people who died in the USSR were killed during the famine caused by the collectivisation of agriculture. I've seen figures between three and thirteen million dead for that.
In addition, a few million gulag prisoners likely starved during the war, since supplies were needed elsewhere. You have a choice, send food to your soldiers and factory workers or to convicts (the vast majority of whom were sent away for non-political crimes). It's not a really hard choice when you are on the brink of annihilation. |
i believe that finally kgb records released under yeltsin showed that about 4 million people were represed, not murdered, in the 30s
200 million thing was, of course, a sarcastic remark. according to the maths laid out very often, there should not be a single living russian, let alone chechen or ukrainian. solzhenitsin was the first one to start that silly licitation - he met a deserved fate, a second rate writer despised by many...
what most of those grossly inflated figures are overlooking is that you cannot really say gulags were death camps. they were brutal forced labor camps, often torture camps and brainwashing. but it was not a soap factory. to kill that many people as moomin's quote estimates, you got to have german efficiency (i hope this does not insult germans)
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29-07-2002 21:08
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