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Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22

so what? the rest of the country does compared to the EU. will you leave only in the suburbs?


people kill those who have killed them (or theirs)


believe it.


No, only the inner cities have such a high murder rate, everywhere else is low.

So those girls who were raped and murdered recently here killed one of the murders family members?

So Hitler had family members killed by the Jews?

So Germany killed Jews because Jews killed Germans?

I don't beleive it and you don't beleive it, stop talking out of your ass.

Jon Miller

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
you've provided a quote from someone who said this MAY BE THE CASE.
it should be enough. for a civilized country.

I could provide quotes from someone saying that the lack of the death penalty causes sheep inbreeding.

Would that be enough for you? Or only the Scots?

MarkG is offline MarkG
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quote:
The major authority in this area is a study of wrongful convictions in "potentially capital cases" by Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet.18 [*pg 130] The first published version of this work, which appeared in 1987, listed 350 such wrongful convictions from 1900 through 1985, including 139 death sentences and twenty-three executions


http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite....mp.+Probs.+125+(Autumn+1998)

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
you've provided a quote from someone who said this MAY BE THE CASE.
it should be enough. for a civilized country.


the fact that help was needed for you is enough for me....


Oh, not giving Turkey the islands and other land they want might be what is causing them to persecute the Kurds. You are causing genocide, give Turkey the parts of Greece it wants.



Jon Miller

Asher is offline Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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Now you're getting somewhere, Mark.

So how many thousands of people were rightfully executed, and how did they determine the 23 were wrong?

MarkG is offline MarkG
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quote:
In May 1990, Jesse Tafero was executed in Florida. His case gained notoriety because the electric chair malfunctioned and his head caught on fire before he died.47 Two years later, Jesse's co-defendant, Sonia Jacobs, who had been convicted and sentenced to death on exactly the same evidence that sent Tafero to his death, was released after a U.S. Court of Appeals concluded that her conviction was based on prosecutorial suppression of exculpatory evidence and perjury by a prosecution witness (who was the real killer).48 Jacobs now lives in Los Angeles, and in early 1996, a television movie of her case was aired.49 But Tafero is dead. Had he been alive, the evidence that led to Jacobs's release would have led to his release, too.


http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite....mp.+Probs.+105+(Autumn+1998)

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
The major authority in this area is a study of wrongful convictions in "potentially capital cases" by Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet.18 [*pg 130] The first published version of this work, which appeared in 1987, listed 350 such wrongful convictions from 1900 through 1985, including 139 death sentences and twenty-three executions


http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite....mp.+Probs.+125+(Autumn+1998)


Finally you find 1 site that supports your statement. Why should we beleive this site over the many that disagree with it?

(I can't even get to it so you need to fix the link)

Jon Miller

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

That's the idea.



isolated rich person living protected from fences from a country full of homeless. great idea.


quote:
You live in GREECE, what the hell are you talking about?


you think your life in canada is better than what Greece provides me? think again


quote:
Who gets to dictate that? You? When it helps your case only?


prior conversation.


quote:
People hate those who are on top -- it's that simple.


people hate those who have made done them injustice. noone cares if the US is "on top" (it doesnt mean anything if it doesnt affect them or kills them)



quote:
You're quite the character...


oh well

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:06
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
The major authority in this area is a study of wrongful convictions in "potentially capital cases" by Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet.18 [*pg 130] The first published version of this work, which appeared in 1987, listed 350 such wrongful convictions from 1900 through 1985, including 139 death sentences and twenty-three executions


http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite....mp.+Probs.+125+(Autumn+1998)
I clicked on this link and this is what I saw:
quote:
Sorry . . .
e:/web/server/htdocs/journals/lcp/articles/lcp61dp125.htm does not exist.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:07
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And when were they executed and so on and so forth (and try getting a percentage).

Jon Miller

MarkG is offline MarkG
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Jan 1970
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
Oh, not giving Turkey the islands and other land they want might be what is causing them to persecute the Kurds. You are causing genocide, give Turkey the parts of Greece it wants.

just quoting...

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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and they are calling the canadians stupid

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
isolated rich person living protected from fences from a country full of homeless. great idea.

So what you're saying is it's a better idea to live in the inner city of Philadelphia than a Northern California Suburb?

quote:
you think your life in canada is better than what Greece provides me? think again

I'm sure Greece is a wonderful place, but second hand smoke alone there takes years off your life.
And Canada doesn't have stuff like 17N.

quote:
prior conversation.

If we only used prior conversation in any debate we wouldn't ever have anything new presented, would we?

quote:
people hate those who have made done them injustice. noone cares if the US is "on top" (it doesnt mean anything if it doesnt affect them or kills them)

It depends on the people.
There is a natural hate in many people for those who are on top.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:09
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Don't you want to stop genocide MarkG?

Any civilized country would want to do so...

Jon Miller

MarkG is offline MarkG
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Jan 1970
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linked from
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...s/case/failure/

quote:
Between 1972 and the end of 1996, sixty-eight death row inmates in the nation were released because of doubts about their guilt.52 These releases do not prove that the system works, as some defenders of the death penalty would argue.
....
In virtually all of these cases, the defendants were released only after an expensive and exhausting uphill struggle, unsupported by public funds or public officials, and almost always fiercely resisted by the prosecution and ignored by those with the power to commute a death sentence.

Some of these prisoners, now free, came within a few days of being executed. Randall Adams, sentenced to death in Texas in 1977 and exonerated in 1989, came to within one week of his execution.54 Andrew Mitchell, sentenced to death in Texas in 1981, came within five days of death by lethal injection before being vindicated in 1993.55 Two half-brothers in Florida, William Jent and Ernest Miller, came within sixteen hours of being executed before they were released from prison in 1988


source

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
and they are calling the canadians stupid


Obviously Greeks are dense...

Jon Miller

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:11 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Mark, want to explain the point of how someone gets their appeal?

"Unsupported by public funds or public officials" simply means he hired his own lawyer. This is not uncommon.
"fiercely resisted by the prosecution". Well, duh? He's the prosecution!

They appealed, they were released, what's the problem?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

So what you're saying is it's a better idea to live in the inner city of Philadelphia than a Northern California Suburb?


im saying that you should care about philly or that im sorry for you.


quote:
I'm sure Greece is a wonderful place, but second hand smoke alone there takes years off your life.
And Canada doesn't have stuff like 17N.


we live longer than all other EU europeans despite smoking (has to do with lots of things)

17N? never targets civilians, and compared to the crime rate of greece ( the lowest in the EU) you get more deaths from drug abuse alone.


quote:
If we only used prior conversation in any debate we wouldn't ever have anything new presented, would we?


the difference being keeping it into context


quote:
It depends on the people.
There is a natural hate in many people for those who are on top.


as i said fabrications. the reason the US is attacked is because it has ****ed people and now they hate her. some kill its civilians.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
linked from
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...s/case/failure/

quote:
Between 1972 and the end of 1996, sixty-eight death row inmates in the nation were released because of doubts about their guilt.52 These releases do not prove that the system works, as some defenders of the death penalty would argue.
....
In virtually all of these cases, the defendants were released only after an expensive and exhausting uphill struggle, unsupported by public funds or public officials, and almost always fiercely resisted by the prosecution and ignored by those with the power to commute a death sentence.

Some of these prisoners, now free, came within a few days of being executed. Randall Adams, sentenced to death in Texas in 1977 and exonerated in 1989, came to within one week of his execution.54 Andrew Mitchell, sentenced to death in Texas in 1981, came within five days of death by lethal injection before being vindicated in 1993.55 Two half-brothers in Florida, William Jent and Ernest Miller, came within sixteen hours of being executed before they were released from prison in 1988


source


So?? The system includes more than just the government. The system includes the people of this nation, many of whom spend a lot of time poring over DP cases looking for reasons to doubt their guilt. I am glad that we have people like this (many are anti-DP, but that is good). If we did not have them, I would be Anti-DP.

I know that it is a little subtle for those in other counties, but it seems to work pretty well.

Jon Miller

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
im saying that you should care about philly or that im sorry for you.

Who said I didn't care about Philly?
There's simply nothing I can do about it.
Why don't you care about Philly?!

quote:
as i said fabrications. the reason the US is attacked is because it has ****ed people and now they hate her. some kill its civilians.

Yes, and once you become big and actually do much of anything (isn't this the purpose of the EU?) you end up ****ing with people as well.

MarkG is offline MarkG
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and of course you ignore the word "expensive".....

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:16
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
and of course you ignore the word "expensive".....


Actually there are many groups in the US that offer their services for free....

Jon Miller

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
and of course you ignore the word "expensive".....

Of course it costs money when you hire a private lawyer.

Since it didn't actually provide any concrete numbers, and considering the tone and how he presented information in such a slanted way, I ignored it because it wasn't informative nor relevant.

I could call a Big Mac expensive...

MarkG is offline MarkG
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jon, someone is not supposed to get justice only if he has hundreds or thousands of people supporting his case....

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

Who said I didn't care about Philly?


you said you'll live in a rich suburb and **** them all (or that was your )

quote:
There's simply nothing I can do about it.


are u always so delusional

quote:
Why don't you care about Philly?!


at least im trying to make someone more near it care.


quote:
Yes, and once you become big and actually do much of anything (isn't this the purpose of the EU?) you end up ****ing with people as well.


the 1st purprose of the EU is to not be another euopean war basically. as to if we'd **** people or not, who knows? the US has though and its paying the price.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
you said you'll live in a rich suburb and **** them all (or that was your )

Where do you pull that from?
I'll live in a suburb because I don't want to live in an area with high crime, and because that's where computer jobs tend to be!

I didn't say anything about "**** them all" nor implied anything like it.

quote:
at least im trying to make someone more near it care.

I do care, I just can't do anything about it.
What can I do, paiktis?

MarkG is offline MarkG
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and of course you didnt care to click on the link to it's sources....

jon, some people donated money so that these groups can offer free services. it shouldnt be this way....

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
and of course you didnt care to click on the link to it's sources....

and of course you didnt care to quote the relevant parts to the debates.

You linked to about 200 pages of information tonight, you honestly expect people to read it all?

What a cop out.

quote:
jon, some people donated money so that these groups can offer free services. it shouldnt be this way....

So suddenly people can't just volunteer their time anymore?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

Where do you pull that from?
I'll live in a suburb because I don't want to live in an area with high crime, and because that's where computer jobs tend to be!


and im sure other people "chose" to be in high crime areas..

*shivers when thinking of the new world...*

quote:
I didn't say anything about "**** them all" nor implied anything like it.


did too


quote:
I do care, I just can't do anything about it.
What can I do, paiktis?


educate organize agitate.


push for more social welfare through your votes and your political convictions should be a good start

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 10:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
jon, someone is not supposed to get justice only if he has hundreds or thousands of people supporting his case....
You seem to forget that they'd still be rotting in prison if not for the contingent of rabid anti-death penalty activists.

 
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