03-08-2002 08:43									#151
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quote: Watch me halt production of Canadian currency for 10 years and watch its value skyrocket!

something tells me this wouldnt very good for the canadian economy

unlike the european economy which has not self-destructed in order to have a currency with a good dollar rate

	03-08-2002 08:43									#152
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Damn it -- I provided a post, and then a swarm of other posts come afterwards.

Who the hell wants facts and figures and logic?

	03-08-2002 08:43									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Asher paiktis, this thread is about the death penalty.

not according to you in your first posts

good to see you say this now (muffles laughter )

quote: I tell Markos that the US doesn't care what the world thinks about it. Suddenly you're throwing out arguments about Iraq and about how the US cares about what the world thinks about that...

you said the US doesnt care what the world thinks asher.

quote: Is that the only way you can get "slam dunks"? Taking things out of context and arguing symantics until you "win"?

that's one way yes. with you though i didnt need to.

quote: You really think that the fact that the US has the death penalty is going to realistically affect their foreign relations?

Only in a very minor way. in respect that the public image of a country affects its ability to receive help or not. like ive already said about a bazilion times before.

	03-08-2002 08:44									#154
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: Watch me halt production of Canadian currency for 10 years and watch its value skyrocket! something tells me this wouldnt very good for the canadian economy unlike the european economy which has not self-destructed in order to have a currency with a good dollar rate

Don't all the countries in the EU also have their own currency?

What is the point of having two?

	03-08-2002 08:44									#155
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG something tells me this wouldnt very good for the canadian economy unlike the european economy which has not self-destructed in order to have a currency with a good dollar rate

It's not as simple as that, Marky.
Comparing currency rates is something many people love to do, but it rarely has any true bearing on how powerful a country is.

It has to do with how they manage their currency and inflation more than anything else.

But I really do appreciate how you tried to use it in a fairly serious argument. It was great for a chuckle.

	03-08-2002 08:44									#156
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quote: I bet the people wrongly sentenced and executed is lower than you think.

i remember seeing a report of being as high as 1 out of 7

	03-08-2002 08:45									#157
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quote: Don't all the countries in the EU also have their own currency?

not since january 1st, 2002
check the news

	03-08-2002 08:46									#158
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Go Asher

Go Asher

Woohoo

Jon Miller
(he is doing such a good job, I don't need to do anything)

	03-08-2002 08:46									#159
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 not according to you in your first posts good to see you say this now (muffles laughter )

My first posts were shots at Mark for his anti-American inferiority complex. Nothing close to foreign relations.

quote: you said the US doesnt care what the world does asher.

In response to comments about...
guess
comon guess
ah, yes...
the death penalty.

paiktis, you should stick to making jokes.

	03-08-2002 08:46									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Your post was too logical and well thought out to be on Poly. You should know better.

Oh -- damn. I forgot what website I was on.

That might also explain why Mark has not replied to it -- it's too rational for him.

	03-08-2002 08:47									#161
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about Eu.

well it certaintly kicks Canada's ass but we already know that.


in economic termsits begger thanthe US and has won against the US in WTO in more cases of global trade than i can count.

so its not "nothing"

the only difference is that it doesnt have its scryscrapers blown out of the sky and it doesn have an army. yet.

	03-08-2002 08:47									#162
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: I bet the people wrongly sentenced and executed is lower than you think. i remember seeing a report of being as high as 1 out of 7

Well I remember seeing a report that all Greeks are really hairy.

Of course I don't know if it's true or not but it is a little far fetched.

So is 1 in 7. Which I'm sure came from an anti-DP group.

I could find a report from a pro-DP group that says none of the people executed was innocent.

I wouldn't believe that either.

	03-08-2002 08:48									#163
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: I bet the people wrongly sentenced and executed is lower than you think. i remember seeing a report of being as high as 1 out of 7

I know of only a couple of wrongly executed. There is no way it could be 1 ou of 7 (maybe for sentenced, but for a long while the government had not killed a innocent person for many decades).

Jon Miller
(I know Asher does not need my help on this, but I decided to reply to ignorance)

	03-08-2002 08:49									#164
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 about Eu. well it certaintly kicks Canada's ass but we already know that.

Canada never wanted to be a powerhouse.
See KH's quote on "Stealth Nation Technology".

quote: in economic termsits begger thanthe US and has won against the US in WTO in more cases of global trade than i can count. so its not "nothing"

Canada has won many WTO cases against the US too. Naturally we are bigger and better.

And last time I checked, the GDP of the US/EU were comparable.

quote: the only difference is that it doesnt have its scryscrapers blown out of the sky and it doesn have an army. yet.

So in other words, the only difference is the EU is too new to have real enemies and also to new to have a real army.

Remind me as to the point of your argument again...

	03-08-2002 08:50									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Asher My first posts were shots at Mark for his anti-American inferiority complex. Nothing close to foreign relations.

then you shouldnt have defended them.

quote: In response to comments about... guess comon guess ah, yes... the death penalty.

you said the US doesn care what the world thinks. point.

quote: paiktis, you should stick to making jokes.

i actually should have, because you dont help me sharpen my intelect much, despite having your masters cheering you on like a glatiator in the roman arena

	03-08-2002 08:50									#166
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 in economic termsits begger thanthe US and has won against the US in WTO in more cases of global trade than i can count.

Of course, anything over 20 gets hard for some people......

	03-08-2002 08:51									#167
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first of all, thank you for the great post

quote: Originally posted by MrFun I don't think George Washington was looking at China's Confucisiasm heritage as an inspiration in founding a new government for the United States.

perhaps not, but i believe the hard-working chinese immigrants have offered a lot in the "building" of the US

that was the point i was trying to say

quote: Thirdly, you are right to an extent Mark. The United States has historically, and presently, been behind other nations in social progress

of course asher would say that if the US decides that the sun is square then it should continue to say it cause that's how the US likes it

quote: But, Mark, this does not mean that the United States is without its strengths and positive aspects.

of course, i did not say anything opposite to that

	03-08-2002 08:51									#168
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Mark -- I would never deny my nation's debt to the black slaves, the Chinese immigrants, the Irish immigrants, the German immigrants and ALL the other immigrant groups.


But when our nation was founded, its source was from the European Enlightenment.

	03-08-2002 08:53									#169
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG of course asher would say that if the US decides that the sun is square then it should continue to say it cause that's how the US likes it

You actually tried to compare something that's an obvious fact to an ethical question?

A little low on ammo in the argument, Mark?

	03-08-2002 08:54									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Canada never wanted to be a powerhouse. See KH's quote on "Stealth Nation Technology".

your inferiority complex to the americans certaintly suggests so.

but thats maybe cause the question your intelligence all the time

quote: Canada has won many WTO cases against the US too. Naturally we are bigger and better.

and the damage you have done to the US is comparable im sure

quote: And last time I checked, the GDP of the US/EU were comparable.

in 2000 our GDP (and d!ck) was bigger.

quote: So in other words, the only difference is the EU is too new to have real enemies and also to new to have a real army.

only US is that damn to have enemies that passionate. it gets what it has done to them. we wont do the same, we dont need to. they are stuck back at imperialistic policies, that will be their downfall.

quote: Remind me as to the point of your argument again...

you saying that the EU is nothing, I think.

	03-08-2002 09:25									#171
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Just so you know:
http://www.eurunion.org/profile/facts.htm

EU GDP 2000: $7,836.7 Billion US
US GDP 2000: $9,896.4 Billion US
EU GDP Growth 2000: 3.3%
US GDP Growth 2000: 5.0%
EU Unemployment: 8.2%
US Unemployment: 4.0%

	03-08-2002 09:28									#172
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EU GDP 2000: $7,836.7 Billion US
US GDP 2000: $9,896.4 Billion US
EU GDP Growth 2000: 3.3%
US GDP Growth 2000: 5.0%
EU Unemployment: 8.2%
US Unemployment: 4.0%


bah, numbers is the easiest way to lie.

that still dont change the fact that the EU does not suffer the crime rate of the US or its terrorist danger. or that the health care in the EU is far better than the american one and that unemployed europeans dont stay in the streets.

which makes it a much better place to live.

check for 2001 stats too BTW.

	03-08-2002 09:31									#173
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the thing is that it's not even a question on the entire world except the US
i've never seen a discussion on greek tv about the death penalty. there is noone to argue in favor of it!


some reports

quote: Since 1976, over 700 people have been executed collectively by the 38 states that practice the death penalty. During that same period of time, 95 people have been freed from death row. That's approximately one person exonerated for every seven executed

http://www.aclu.org/death-penalty/toolkit_pt5.html
(yes, of course the aclu is biased )

quote: A major study of capital punishment in the United States says more than two-thirds of convictions are so flawed that they are overturned on appeal. ... The study of 4,578 appeals between 1973 and 1995 showed that most cases "are so seriously flawed that they have to be done over again".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/787416.stm

	03-08-2002 09:31									#174
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paiktis, you said 2000, not 2001. And it's unlikely the US didn't gain any GDP while EU gained $2B in a year anyway.

The EU does not suffer the crime rate of the US or its terrorist danger because of the different society.

Canada doesn't suffer the US' crime rate or terrorist danger either.

Terrorist dangers are related to how big and powerful your country is (everyone hates those on top), and crime rate is mostly based around the US' gun culture and economic disparity.

	03-08-2002 09:31									#175
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btw that texan sever cant take the greek heat

	03-08-2002 09:34									#176
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the thing is that it's not even a question on the entire world except the US i've never seen a discussion on greek tv about the death penalty. there is noone to argue in favor of it!

Would you stop trying to use other country's ethics as the absolute "fact" in a situation that doesn't involve fact? It's ethics, Mark, stop pretending otherwise.

And your reports are extremely laughable.
That's why there's appeals, Mark. Those people freed are not executed, they win on appeals. When you lose a dozen straight appeals, the chances are very high that you are in fact guilty.

Can't you tell the difference between being freed on an appeal and being executed after many appeals proving your guilt?

	03-08-2002 09:34									#177
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the thing is that it's not even a question on the entire world except the US i've never seen a discussion on greek tv about the death penalty. there is noone to argue in favor of it! some reports quote: Since 1976, over 700 people have been executed collectively by the 38 states that practice the death penalty. During that same period of time, 95 people have been freed from death row. That's approximately one person exonerated for every seven executed http://www.aclu.org/death-penalty/toolkit_pt5.html (yes, of course the aclu is biased )

Did you note that they were not executed? That they were freed?

So your 1 out of 7 is how many are sentenced to death and were innocent. Our system continues to work after sentencing and those that were innocent were exonerated. So your 1 out of 7 who are innocent and then sentenced and executed is obviously false.

Jon Miller

	03-08-2002 09:35									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Asher paiktis, you said 2000, not 2001. And it's unlikely the US didn't gain any GDP while EU gained $2B in a year anyway.

it would be interesting to se the trend though dont forget that lower GDP goes for social welfare which is far better.

quote: The EU does not suffer the crime rate of the US or its terrorist danger because of the different society.

do u think its a better society?

quote: Canada doesn't suffer the US' crime rate or terrorist danger either.

decide your nationality finally asher

are you a stupid canadian or just another yankee?

quote: Terrorist dangers are related to how big and powerful your country is (everyone hates those on top), and crime rate is mostly based around the US' gun culture and economic disparity.

terrorist dangers are related to how ****ed up youve been in your policies not by your power

gun culture and death penalties, we have a lot of changin' to do

	03-08-2002 09:35									#179
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more bbc

quote: What may in the end prove even more telling, however, is the result of a study by the Columbia School of Law in New York. After examining every capital punishment case passing through the appeal courts between 1973 and 1995 its lawyers found that seven out of 10 death sentences were reversed because of serious error in the original trials. To its authors the study suggests that America's capital punishment system is breaking down under the weight of its own mistakes. They point out that an appeals process burdened with the task of catching so much error is hugely expensive. Also it takes an inordinate amount of time. Clearly nearly 70% of America's 3,700 death row inmates should never have been sent there. And although not more than about one in 10 will ever be executed, the wrongly sentenced are having to wait for anything from 10 to 18 years to be told of their fate. That's not unusual, and it is certainly cruel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/audiovid...ent/1168496.stm

	03-08-2002 09:36									#180
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BTW MarkG

This was your original statement

Originally posted by MarkG
quote:

I bet the people wrongly sentenced and executed is lower than you think.

i remember seeing a report of being as high as 1 out of 7

Note that you were claiming that 1 out of 7 were wrongly sentenced and executed. Nothing you have presented even suggests this, and no research that I have ever seen presented suggests this.

Jon Miller