27-09-2002 19:42									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Even Austin can be self-depreciating if caught in the correct mood.

I forgot to tell you! Austin is currently appearing here in some TV ads for a hair replacement place! Watch the arse fall out of their business!

quote: I’ve got no feel for our chaps IQ, but it is true Union is the thinking mans code. Put that in your pipe (as usually hidden under your flat cap) and smoke it pseudo-rugby fans.

That's one of the fundamental differences between rugby and L*****. Rugby requires thought. It's not cross-country wrestling.

quote: Mind you we led right up to the end last time so no chicken counting from me.

The singles will be the problem for Europe, methinks. As always. The Yanks are mighty good head-to-head. One of the nicest things I heard the commentator say tonight was that Sam Torrance had drawn up his pairings today based on personality. He paired Monty with Bernard Langer. Talk about a pair of personality black holes!

quote: Now then are you trying to get me to say it will be a good Saturday because of this? Wicked Finbar. And not very likely of me as she has access to my home PCs, the most perfect woman in the world that she is.

Mrs finbar has had a week off from work this week. It has fair driven me mad! I have my routine here at home, I have the dogs, they know the routine, they're quiet most of the time ...

... enough said.

	27-09-2002 19:43									#182
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I think Canterbury-N.harbour is on Sky tomorrow morning, I will try to catch the second showing in the afternoon (which happens directly before the Zurich live televised game here).

Trust me Caligastia and cheer for Bath tomorrow.

I just discovered Tigers game is Sunday - needing to spend Sunday afternoon with rugger as well as Saturday may cause domestic friction this weekend.

When Finbar returns tomorrow tell him Grewcocks ban was overturned on appeal so he can take part against Gloucester now.

	27-09-2002 20:23									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I think Canterbury-N.harbour is on Sky tomorrow morning, I will try to catch the second showing in the afternoon (which happens directly before the Zurich live televised game here).

I wont get to see that one, but I would go for N. Harbour. They are the underdogs though.

quote: Trust me Caligastia and cheer for Bath tomorrow.

No worries

quote: I just discovered Tigers game is Sunday - needing to spend Sunday afternoon with rugger as well as Saturday may cause domestic friction this weekend.

Whenever my wife complains about rugby I tell her not to deny me my NZ culture.

quote: When Finbar returns tomorrow tell him Grewcocks ban was overturned on appeal so he can take part against Gloucester now.

Im sure he will love that.

	28-09-2002 08:06									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Havak When Finbar returns tomorrow tell him Grewcocks ban was overturned on appeal so he can take part against Gloucester now.

Rort rort rort!

	28-09-2002 08:08									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Whenever my wife complains about rugby I tell her not to deny me my NZ culture.

Thanks, Cal, you know I love a good oxymoron!

	29-09-2002 06:24									#186
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Gloucester and Bath drew 21-all. Obviously black magic at work. Havak, his Gloucester doll and his pins.

I knew Havak had been hard at it with his pins as soon as I accessed the radio broadcast of the game and the audio wouldn't come through!

Last edited by finbar on 29-09-2002 at 06:32

	29-09-2002 09:11									#187
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Thanks, Cal, you know I love a good oxymoron!

Heres another one: classy australian

	30-09-2002 04:36									#188
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Anyway, I asked Mrs finbar to run me up a Leicester doll, borrowed some of her pins -

Bristol 25 -d- Leicester 20! And Bristol did it with 14 players for just about the whole match!

I think this black magic thing has a future.

	30-09-2002 13:10									#189
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quote: They are the underdogs though.

They got so thoroughly blown away I stopped watching it in the end.

quote: No worries

Your cheering worked – thanks!

quote: Whenever my wife complains about rugby I tell her not to deny me my NZ culture.

I’m less diplomatic I think.

Someone has been talking indiscreetly. How did you find out about the dolls?

Okay. So Sky for some reason showed Saracens-Saints not the west country derby. What I can tell you from that is that Connors had a good solid game, but that neither of those sides is a championship winning side. In fact they will struggle as much as Tigers this year I think.

Nice to see Bath stick one up the tractor boys – just a shame they couldn’t take all the points.

And us? Is it too early to talk crisis point? Not really. Our worst ever start in the Professional era – three games lost by end of September. Last season we lost four games period. As Finbar pointed out we had a man advantage for 77 minutes and failed to make it tell (despite scoring more tries). The turnover rate was simply scary. Personally I would have kept the ball tight in the forwards once they went a man down and just hammered at them through the direct channel until they were totally knackered. Tigers spun it wide to a back line that just didn’t know what to do with it.

It was just a totally different team to the one I saw last weekend despite there being only one change!

I am worried I have to admit. A good team should not become a bad one over night? Third is a realistic goal for us now – and I have no doubt if we make the play off final we will beat Gloucester. We are a hard team to beat in finals. The problem will be in getting there first.

Misery piled on misery – Vesty came off with what looked a bad injury so our current Fly half solution is… Rod Kafer. That’s how serious it is.

And the Bristol crowd worried me – a very soccer like quality to them, endless booing and even cheering as Vesty was carried off clearly badly hurt. I really hate that and hope they get a grip on it quickly.

btw have you noticed the total absence of "USA, USA, USA" posts in Ryder cup threads?

	30-09-2002 14:02									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Someone has been talking indiscreetly. How did you find out about the dolls?

I just typed "Havak" and "dolls" into Google and up it came.

quote: I am worried I have to admit. A good team should not become a bad one over night?

You're right, they shouldn't, so they probably haven't. Is there an ageing problem? Have other teams worked out the patterns? Is there complacency? They seem to be the usual reasons for eras to come to an end. OTOH, form's such an intangible thing, and the even more intangible thing called confidence is such a major contributor to form.

quote: Tigers spun it wide to a back line that just didn’t know what to do with it.

Mmm. I always thought the way to play against an extra man was to avoid letting the oppo exploit the extra man. Minimise all risk and hang onto the pill.

quote: btw have you noticed the total absence of "USA, USA, USA" posts in Ryder cup threads?

I sat up till 2.30am watching it. Blissful! Even if the fat, surly, whingeing Scot did lead the way. It really looked to me like several of the Americans who played every day simply ran out of puff. How often does Phil Michelson miss two putts inside 4 feet within a couple of holes? It's also totally beyond me why Curtis Strange let Tiger Woods and Jesper Parnevik play the last hole when it was meaningless. Davis Love III did the sensible and courteous thing and conceded the last hole without playing it to finish all square with his opponent. I can only think that Tiger wanted to do it his way and wouldn't be told.

I imagine Sam Torrance will now be knighted. I've always had a soft spot for Sam.

	30-09-2002 15:36									#191
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quote: I just typed "Havak" and "dolls" into Google and up it came.

Try “Havak” and “Lions”. I’m sure it will lead to something strange – the odd rant maybe.

quote: Is there an ageing problem? Have other teams worked out the patterns? Is there complacency?

I would say all three are valid points. The pack is ageing, and the forwards average age is much older now than the backs. The other teams have improved massively in the last four years, and there is no doubt it is very easy for them to ‘psyche up’ for the clashes with Tigers. Complacency is trickier. I guess there must be, but that’s rather alien to the ‘Tigers way’, albeit a normal part of human nature.

I think we also need to recognise the back line is unsettled due to injury – Smith, Lloyd and Murphy missing puts a big dent in our firepower there.

But I think you hit the nail on the head – I think the Leeds game shook their confidence and they are finding it hard to re-discover it away from the safety blanket of Welford Road. I still wouldn’t like to be Bath this weekend as I suspect the boys will come out alls guns blazing.

Still I am a ‘die-hard’ fan who has been there since the previous bad times, and I’ll be there through these if they are prolonged too. I don’t mind losing in the final analysis as long as we have played well – and it was the lack of that yesterday that worried me so much.

quote: Mmm. I always thought the way to play against an extra man was to avoid letting the oppo exploit the extra man. Minimise all risk and hang onto the pill

And you are right. But it can work for the team with the man advantage in the pack to grind the opposing forwards for half the game then unleash the backs at them when tired. Boring rugby that it is.

Still our right wing yesterday was Harry Ellis – a scrummy by trade and picked by me to make England in that position some day. That’s the level of problem we have behind the pack right now. Having said that he scored a cracking try.

Yes the golf truly was great to watch at times. But I guess we have to accept home advantage is a big help.

Arise Sir Sam – yes I can see that happening.

	30-09-2002 15:45									#192
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Pau 20 - Stade Toulousain 20...

Once again the Stade Toulousain has produced a rather poor performance, many handling errors, bad tactic choices, etc.

Even if this game was played away from home at the "Stade du Hameau", Pau is a rather weak team the Stade Toulousain should beat. At least the Stade I knew...

	30-09-2002 15:53									#193
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It would seem Tamerlin that both our teams are struggling to live up to their reputations.

It cannot last - can it?

	30-09-2002 15:54									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Still I am a ‘die-hard’ fan who has been there since the previous bad times, and I’ll be there through these if they are prolonged too. I don’t mind losing in the final analysis as long as we have played well – and it was the lack of that yesterday that worried me so much.

for the two sentences.

As we say in France when we share the same spirit and/or opinion : "nous sommes sur la même longueur d'onde (we are tuned to the same wavelength)".

	30-09-2002 16:00									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It would seem Tamerlin that both our teams are struggling to live up to their reputations. It cannot last - can it?

I just can say It should not.

I'am more confident in the Tigers than in the Stade Toulousain. In spite of a French Championship semi-final, last year's season was a disaster and I think we are up for a catastrophic one again. I fear the problem is much deeper than it seems.

	30-09-2002 18:17									#196
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Like everything else the expression sounds far more poetical in French.

I simply cannot conceive of Stade Toulousain remaining out of sorts for too long - I hope they cheer you up very soon.

	30-09-2002 18:21									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Havak They got so thoroughly blown away I stopped watching it in the end.

Harbour are one of those on/off teams. They beat Otago last year.

The Wellington/Otago game was very close. Otago really dominated, but were unable to score any tries. Wellington managed to score two, which was all that kept them in the game. Final score Otago 21 - Wellington 20.

quote: Still I am a ‘die-hard’ fan who has been there since the previous bad times, and I’ll be there through these if they are prolonged too.

I have always been an Auckland fan, but Ive become more of one since their period of dominance ended. I remember when almost every All Black was from Auckland. Back then I wasnt as big a rugby fan as now, and I got bored of Auckland winning all the time. Now that they seem to be on more or less the same level as the other top teams it makes things more interesting. I still hope for another period of dominance though...

	01-10-2002 00:12									#198
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What do you guys think of this new Tri-series idea?
http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/rugby...FX7QN3AP6D.html

Its seems strange that NZ would be left out of this. What are they afraid of?

	01-10-2002 04:55									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia What do you guys think of this new Tri-series idea? http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/rugby...FX7QN3AP6D.html Its seems strange that NZ would be left out of this. What are they afraid of?

It seems to be predicated on the fact that the Wallabies and Boks will be there anyway as part of their NH tour. Presumably the ABs aren't touring. It would be nice to see more than the usual one-off Tests against England, though how the English clubs will take to the idea could be another matter with all the rugby the lads are already playing.

	01-10-2002 05:06									#200
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Bristol and England prop Julian White copped a five month suspension for headbutting a Leicester opponent (and England teammate) on the weekend.

I hope someone's going to take some DNA from a prop forward before the species dies out.

	01-10-2002 05:15									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Try “Havak” and “Lions”. I’m sure it will lead to something strange – the odd rant maybe.

Mmmmm. Try this:

quote: Your search - Havak Lions - did not match any documents.

Obviously your blasphemies have been deleted by narrow-minded webmasters.

	01-10-2002 05:18									#202
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I hope someone's going to take some DNA from a prop forward before the species dies out.

Havak and I will do our best to save the species, this is of an utmost importance.

No props, no rugby.

	01-10-2002 05:26									#203
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Props are key to rugby... so are locks... so are hookers... soare Centers. No.8 arn't as important though, IMHO

	01-10-2002 05:31									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Havak and I will do our best to save the species, this is of an utmost importance.

Go forth and multiply, Tamerlin. I'd suggest the same to Havak except he seems to spend his every waking minute in front of the TV watching rugby.

quote: No props, no rugby.

So true, so true. Whenever I (purely accidentally) see a L***** game and happen to see what they call "props" in action, I wet my pants laughing.

	01-10-2002 05:35									#205
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quote: Originally posted by redbull Props are key to rugby... so are locks... so are hookers... soare Centers. No.8 arn't as important though, IMHO

Mmmm. Would you care to say that to someone like Zinzan Brooke? To his face?

	01-10-2002 12:47									#206
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I must apologise Finbar as I missed your post about Austin’s lucrative Ad deal. I’ve always been a big believer that if people feel they need these things then that is their business but I must admit I found the weave rather amusing. Not quite in Elton territory but…

Are you having a quieter week btw?

That tri-series sounds a nice idea. It’s the kind of thing we need. But the calendar needs sorting first because as Finbar rightly points out the clubs will not be happy. Take this example – the night before England play the ABs this November Tigers face Gloucester at home. Half our squad and three of their players will be missing.

If nothing else it devalues the league as if they beat us it means very little without the 1st teams out there. Similarly the league carries on through the other two fixtures as well. Only in England I say…

White head butted Lewis Moody, who was then yellow carded himself for punching the ***** in retaliation. White has a poor discipline record but thankfully is a fringe England player – he’ll never get past a fit Vickery.

No trace of my Lions rants eh? Must be time for another…?

quote: Havak and I will do our best to save the species, this is of an utmost importance. No props, no rugby.

I think our antipodean friends would agree as well.

As Finbar says seeing the League ‘equivalent’ is very funny indeed.

quote: I'd suggest the same to Havak except he seems to spend his every waking minute in front of the TV watching rugby.

Almost. I have to schedule some quality drinking time too.

quote: Mmmm. Would you care to say that to someone like Zinzan Brooke? To his face?

It’s a strange position but still an important one. A good number 8 can be instrumental in keeping a team on the front foot.

	01-10-2002 13:23									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I must apologise Finbar as I missed your post about Austin’s lucrative Ad deal. I’ve always been a big believer that if people feel they need these things then that is their business but I must admit I found the weave rather amusing. Not quite in Elton territory but…

Graham Gooch had his done by the same people and appears in the same advertisement. As if an ex-English Test captain and a - well, I'll bypass Austin for the lack of a suitable description - are going to flog hair weaves to anyone out here. Very odd marketing indeed.

quote: Are you having a quieter week btw?

At least I'm getting some sleep now the Ryder Cup is over.

quote: If nothing else it devalues the league as if they beat us it means very little without the 1st teams out there. Similarly the league carries on through the other two fixtures as well. Only in England I say…

Well, the same thing happens during the season here, although the S12 comp is shorter, I think, than your season. It was only pointed out very recently that the Brumbies will go into next season very seriously undermanned.

quote: White head butted Lewis Moody

What's the man's problem? I read that he was outed last season for something too.

quote: It’s a strange position but still an important one. A good number 8 can be instrumental in keeping a team on the front foot.

I've always thought a good #8 to be one of the keys to a team's success. He can provide so many alternative options.

	01-10-2002 14:02									#208
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quote: Very odd marketing indeed.

Truly Bizarre. I guess one should do some market research first eh?

quote: the S12 comp is shorter, I think, than your season

The premiership runs from August to May. Because they have to make way for European competition (which is okay), the six nations (also okay) and the domestic cup competition (rather a waste of time these days).

What we need is fewer teams in the Premiership – two less I think. And scrap the Powergen cup – or stop the top teams coming in until round five (at the moment they enter round four and can be playing teams from four-five divisions below them, utterly pointless).

Oh and maybe kick Wales out the six nations too.

Where will the Wallabies be when your domestic season kicks off? Is it those pre-RWC fixtures?

quote: What's the man's problem? I read that he was outed last season for something too.

Suspect temperament unfortunately, as he is a very solid prop. I have to accept I am biased but Bristol are a team that to me reflect their former coach. Until June they were coached for several seasons by Dean Ryan. Part of the Newcastle title winning side in 98 he got a couple of caps for England way back when, but got dropped because he was in essence ‘over-competitive’. In fact IMO a thoroughly excessively violent player at times.

And then you have Bristol for whom Garath Archer plays. An England lock two years ago now nowhere on the scene their because he couldn’t stay on the pitch a full game. Andrew Sheridan, terrific young lock, looked set to be the next big thing also two years ago but then started swinging occasionally, lost form and faded away. White moves from Sarries where his discipline was fairly okay and then has a season full of incident at Bristol. Even the half back pair – Pichot and Contempomi are getting themselves in volatile situations too often for my liking. It’s a poor aspect of their game down at the Memorial ground but I am sure it will improve. Why? Well because Mr Ryan has now moved to Gloucester as forwards coach.

Don’t be surprised if the disciplinary record there starts to slip a bit this season.

quote: I've always thought a good #8 to be one of the keys to a team's success. He can provide so many alternative options.

Unless he is Scott Quinell of course in which case he will pick and drive until the cows come home.

	01-10-2002 16:58									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Oh and maybe kick Wales out the six nations too.

BTW, you never replied to my question - in the light of the History of GB, did you trace your heritage? Did your grampa hop off a longboat wielding a huge axe? Did they pop across the channel? Are you a distant rellie of Caesar?

quote: Where will the Wallabies be when your domestic season kicks off? Is it those pre-RWC fixtures?

It's going to be a monstrous year for the SH players. The S12 starts very early in March, running in concentrated fashion till May. The Tri-Nations runs from July to August and the WRC runs from mid-October till the last week in November. Not to mention the various WRC warm-up games. I can't see many of the Wallabies playing very much S12.

quote: Why? Well because Mr Ryan has now moved to Gloucester as forwards coach. Don’t be surprised if the disciplinary record there starts to slip a bit this season.

Oh beaut.

	01-10-2002 17:24									#210
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quote: BTW, you never replied to my question

I probably never saw it. The thread moves so quickly in my absence sometimes I can miss things on my visit.

I can only reliably trace my family through the paternal line about 150 years but my surname establishes our family as being established before the Norman conquest i.e it’s a saxon name in origin. As to whether the original Havak was a Saxon or Angle or Dane (or possibly even a Briton) it’s hard to say. If you trace enough connections you will find all of them no doubt.

A lot of one’s countrymen do not realise what fascinating mix this little Island has in it’s history.

quote: I can't see many of the Wallabies playing very much S12

Common sense. We need you fresh when we beat you.

quote: Oh beaut.

Don’t worry too much – he isn’t in over all control and Melville used to play with him so should know how to get the best from him. I expect the forwards to become more fiery though.

You can’t argue with Gloucesters start even if it is painful for a midlander.