26-11-2003 22:40									#931
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette 1) "Technical' report (from La Fayette) Apparently, the only remaining problem is that my foreign advisor tells me that I am in contact with 3 civs (which is the truth), but the 'chat with kings' tells me that I haven't met anyone yet.

It will help if you start up the game as a Multiplayer, but then choose the 'Network' game instead of the 'Internet game' option. (then choose TCP/IP, although I don't think the other option you get there has any effect)
By doing so, there will not be a 'King Chat' option in the menu.
Anyway, it does not really matter if you play the way you did.

quote: 2) "Historical" report (from Minos) A peaceful Minoan skirmisher wandering along the Southern coast of Anatolia met a supposedly peaceful Assyrian skirmisher. The polite Minoan said 'hello', the supposedly polite Assyrian replied 'give me 300 gold'. The Minoan said 'no thank you'. The Assyrian said 'war'. Here is the point of view of Minos: The Hittites asked for help from the Minoans a few years ago, because they had 'problems' with the Assyrians. The Minoans have therefore been allied with the Hittites since then. But meanwhile a cease fire has been signed between Assyrians and Hittites. Therefore Minos sees no reason to be at war with Assyria any longer. He asks the Assyrian leader to tell his wandering skirmishers to behave more politely and feels ready to forget the incident.

We ask forgiveness for the rude behaviour of our skirmishers. Rest assured the culprits will be punished when they return to Assyria.

Assyria has no quarrel with the Minoans, and we suggest negotiations will start on some sort of treaty between Assyria and Minos.

We deduce from the Minoan report that they have been at war with us during our struggle with the Hittite. Since Minos has tied his faith with the Hatte, we propose a cease-fire to the Minoans as well.

	27-11-2003 00:33									#932
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker In such situations I think you should refuse any diplomatic contact with the AI.

I guess you are right
(but I found it fun, since there have been some "problems" with Assyrian aggressivity previously)

	27-11-2003 00:46									#933
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quote: Originally posted by germanos We deduce from the Minoan report that they have been at war with us during our struggle with the Hittite. Since Minos has tied his faith with the Hatte, we propose a cease-fire to the Minoans as well.

The Hittites asked for help and we said 'yes' and became their allies. Now you seem to have come to some sort of agreement with our allies and we agree to a cease fire.

We also agree to peace negociations (which will require some kind of discussion with our allies, as you can easily understand).

	27-11-2003 03:29									#934
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette I guess you are right (but I found it fun, since there have been some "problems" with Assyrian aggressivity previously)

germanos makes note not to forget not to ctrl-N

	30-11-2003 13:45									#935
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Straybow!

	05-12-2003 03:54									#936
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I'm back Have file, will play

I had barely started playing my round in a succession game and ran into some video card problems. Had more problems getting a new one to work. A whole week without Apolyton!
…or CIV2!!

	09-12-2003 23:43									#937
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I will resign my postion ASAP.

I cannot keep up with the speed in this game


Once the new year has arrived, I will cease my participation in this game.

I'm sorry for those who have put a lot of effort in this game, but I have grown very bored.

I find this a wonderfull scenario, and I am truly saddened by the lack of progress, for who nobody in particular is to blame.
to Kull.

germanos

	10-12-2003 07:22									#938
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OOOO NOOOO PLEAAASE!
I can understand that you are truly saddened by the lack of progress. So is probably anyone of us.
But the Italians say:
"Chi va piano, va sano
Chi va sano, va lontano"
Please, give us 3 more months to see if that may come true.

	10-12-2003 10:38									#939
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Guys, it really has been taking far too long between some of these turns - and this has already cost us one player (Steve Clark) and now Germanos is ready to head out the door. We have rules in place to govern when a player loses their turn, but none of us wants to be the bad guy and skip past the late player, so as a result the "rule" has no teeth, everyone knows this, and nothing happens. If everyone will concur (and assuming this gets Germanos to change his mind), I'd like to propose the following:

1) I'll be the Bad Guy
2) At some point during the 4th day following the last turn, if there's been no activity, I will post here that the "missing" player's turn is over and PM the next in line.
3) There is no "right of appeal" from this decision - the turn is lost and the AI gets to play your civ.
4) It would help if everyone PMs the next person after they post their save. It's a very simple thing to do, and should speed things up considerably.

	10-12-2003 23:57									#940
	Increase Your PM Length

Sorry to hear about germanos will leave...
But maybe he might be convinced to play on? I would enjoy to play on this game...

Let me mention that the turn delay is fairly normal in PBEM.
Presently, I still host another seven player PBEM -for four years now
There were times when turns went on very slowly- But it still goes on and on. And it is still big fun. You just need some patience.

I suggest an email notifying system alternatively to the PM system, since I check Apolyton not every day, though I get notified if someone posted in this thread.
KULL: Though I agree to your thoughts, PLEASE let not play the AI the turn. It screws the whole game by several effects. Perhaps some human player could simply load the turn and do the Ctrl-N thing?

	11-12-2003 22:19									#941
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Kull Guys, it really has been taking far too long between some of these turns - and this has already cost us one player (Steve Clark) and now Germanos is ready to head out the door. We have rules in place to govern when a player loses their turn, but none of us wants to be the bad guy and skip past the late player, so as a result the "rule" has no teeth, everyone knows this, and nothing happens. If everyone will concur (and assuming this gets Germanos to change his mind), I'd like to propose the following: 1) I'll be the Bad Guy 2) At some point during the 4th day following the last turn, if there's been no activity, I will post here that the "missing" player's turn is over and PM the next in line. 3) There is no "right of appeal" from this decision - the turn is lost and the AI gets to play your civ. 4) It would help if everyone PMs the next person after they post their save. It's a very simple thing to do, and should speed things up considerably.

I must say my greatest disappointment lays in the fact that we indeed have rules to saveguard continuity in this game (and we have had so from the start of this game), but they indeed proove to be teethless. So, in this game it annoyes me even more then in others...

the fact that we have few cities and units also adds to my anger. I keep bumping and pressing players, but to no avail, nor do I feel I get much support for my efforts. Hell, I often get tempted to bypass even other players and play my turn once the x-times three days have passed

I support the Ctrl-N thing that Kengel proposes. It's easy to do as well: If the next player in line makes the window very small, very little information will be revealed. The only backdrop is if the Civ is passworded. in that case we should let the AI take over.

On a sidenote: passwording your civ is quite useless: if people want to have a look at your civ, a password won't stop them.

If we can keep a reasonable pacew in this game, I'll be more then happy to stay, but if it stayes like this, I'l e gone efore you can say

BUMP

	12-12-2003 01:00									#942
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quote: Originally posted by germanos I support the Ctrl-N thing that Kengel proposes. It's easy to do as well: If the next player in line makes the window very small, very little information will be revealed.

I think you cannot make it small before you open the game. But after you open it you obtain more info when manipulating with windows than doing all work with closed eyes. So I suggest this procedure:

After 'please enter your name' window you close eyes, then you press
enter, ('this is your turn' message) Enter, Ctrl-X (zoom out for a safety), Ctrl-N, Ctrl-S, ('select file name' window) Enter, ('game saved' window) Enter, Alt-F4
then you open eyes

quote: On a sidenote: passwording your civ is quite useless: if people want to have a look at your civ, a password won't stop them.

You forgot you may be banned for these words?
We all know wipping password out is quite impossible and doable by geniuses only.

Seriously now:
I suggest all passwords in operation should be added to the list of players in the first post.

BTW my game is not passworded, neither hittites'. Therefore I will take the role of the bad guy towards Straybow. But since we start to be bad right now, i give Straybow a deadline to show up to Saturday.

Concerning game progress:
I won't mind if somebody will not be able to play for 5 days, but he should announce what problems happen and when he will play.
And I think announcement towards next player about possible time of playing is always a good idea. If I know when I will play then I post an e-mail to germanos like 'I will play this evening' or even better 'I will play before 6pm'. Next player may prepare for his turn and the game may go faster.
And I always post an e-mail that warns I just played to germanos, but I am prepared to post it also to Kull. But Kull must send me his e-mail if he asks warnings.

	12-12-2003 02:44									#943
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Straybow wasn't online since 5.12., probably he has some problems, but I think he should get to Internet and let us know...

	12-12-2003 08:52									#944
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quote: Originally posted by kengel Perhaps some human player could simply load the turn and do the Ctrl-N thing?

Assuming this is not going to happen to often, I could fill in as this human player, to avoid the problem Slowthinker identifies above.

I have little interest in scenarios (I tried this one out twice, and was lost, too many changes from the regular civ for me), but I am more then willing to help keep this game alive. (I am in the seven player game Kengel refers to above, and while I have only been in the game for 3 of the 4 years, there have been times I too have been impatiently waiting for my next turn).

I would be happy to help out on those hopefully rare occassions this would be needed. (and I check Apolyton on an almost daily basis, and have subscribed to this thread as well).

* Sparrowhawk , offering to help

	12-12-2003 11:36									#945
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Sparrowhawk.

this looks like a really good solution.

As we have allready a 72 hour deadline, I propose that all players send their password, or lack thereof, to Sparrowhawk if they want to avoid AI mess if they fail to meet the deadline.


Assyria is not passworded, so if Sparrowhawk would be so kind to do the honours for me if I fail, I would be most gratefull.

	12-12-2003 12:50									#946
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Sparrowhawk,

Friendly offer
Thank you very much

(No password for Minos)

	13-12-2003 00:18									#947
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk I would be happy to help out on those hopefully rare occassions this would be needed. (and I check Apolyton on an almost daily basis, and have subscribed to this thread as well).

That's great!
Maybe we may provide the same service for your PBEM?

	13-12-2003 12:03									#948
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As requested by the leader of the Babylonians, I have loaded and did the "control n" for the Hittites (and saved and emailed the save). It seems the clock is ticking for the Hittite leader, but there is still time before Slowthinker makes use of this save.

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker That's great! Maybe we may provide the same service for your PBEM?

Hmmm, perhaps Kengel (the organizer of the game some 4+ years ago) or La Fayette (our newest replacement leader) would be better to answer this question,but I will attempt to give my opinion. Our game continues on...slowly at times, but I don't think any player could afford to lose a turn by having this happen, perhaps if things change for the worse in the future (the game is moving at a reasonable pace right now) this could be considered, but for now, I think we are okay without subs (though we have had allies play both civs for extended periods of time). Thanks for the offer though, and perhaps it will become necessary at some point in the future (we lost a player for reason similar to what Germanos mentioned above, and at one point had a rotation of turns (7 players turns) take 3 months to play, at that point I too was thinking of moving on ). Currently a round of turns takes approx. 2 weeks, which is fine with me

* Sparrowhawk interim leader of.......ALL

Note to all: Though this is a solution to missing players, I would like to make it clear that I am not making any decisions. For instance in regard to city production or resource usage, moving any units, or attacking or defending. The only decision I may end out making in filling in is choosing the next technology. In other words, though this will keep the game moving, I doubt anyone wants this to happen, as they effectively lose the turn (hopefully without causing any long term damage to themselves or others however )

	13-12-2003 22:39									#949
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Thanks Sparrowhawk - using you as the "Control-N" guy is an effective resolution to the problem. As for the password issue, rather than prohibit them, password users will simply have to face the possibility that the AI could play their turn (or they could send it along to Sparrowhawk). And given that we've agreed on 72 hours - if three days pass with no word from the missing player, on the 4th day the next in line can just request Sparrowhaks services via PM or private email.

	14-12-2003 02:52									#950
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am not sure if Straybow knows about our 72-hours rule. It is hidden somewhere in the thread...

I think we can continue, but we should replay if Straybow will come next week and his civ will be hurted by the turn skipping too much...

quote: Originally posted by Kull As for the password issue, rather than prohibit them, password users will simply have to face the possibility that the AI could play their turn

As far I have understood not only the password user will suffer from the AI control. I think also other civs may be damaged (AI 'checks' F11 and activates the F11 bug?).

Is there anybody here which civ is passworded?

	14-12-2003 21:43									#951
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Straybow was skipped...

Attachment: bab_b3050.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	16-12-2003 00:56									#952
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Tracking my PM to Straybow I see he was last online at Apolyton on 5.12. So that needn't be a problem of this turn only...

We will skip him now, but what to do next turn?

	16-12-2003 15:50									#953
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Cease fire signed with the Minoans.

Barbarian tribe captured, slaves brought to Nineveh.

Attachment: assyria_b3050.net
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	16-12-2003 23:27									#954
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Thanks Sparrowhawk for your help You did well, and indeed you should try to do as little as possible. If in doubt what to do, you can allways come here and ask .

STORY

King Mandaru is saddened by the news from Hatta. Rumour has it that the noble leader of the House of Straybow is sick and unable to attend the affairs of State. Pulic life is stagnating, and the economy is apparently slowly deteriorating, as the people of Hatta miss the guidance of their shining example: the King of Hatta.
Assyrian scouts have met with their Hittite comrades, who sit idle by their fires on the plains west of the Great Desert, and citizens from Karkemish can see the Hittite swordsmen on the banks of the Eastern Euphrates gathering food, some of the veturing in the woods, others trying to catch fish with their weapons...
The faith of another Hittite band is more happy: they celebrate with the Moabites in the evening, and work their fields during the day. But all Hatte we meet suffer from the same: lack of orders.

Mandaru fears that the faith of the Hatte King may befall in him as well sometime, and allthough his advisors tell him such a thing is not possible, the Assyrian ruler orders his subordinates to pray to the Gods and to sacrifice some bread, a few berries or a sheep to appease the forces of nature, and that the Gods may continue to cast their lessing on the mortals who try to run the empires of this world, and that good health may return soon to his Hatta neighbour, and prosperity may once again settle in the Hatte empire.



Word has reached the capitol that some hotheads in Anatolia declared war on eachother. Great was Mandaru's anger when he found out his own officers were involved in this, allthough he was happy this hothead was roaming some barbarian lands instead of garrisonning one of the Assyrian cities. The Minoan involvement in the matter surely played a major part as well, and all this didn't bode well for the future. Envoys were dispatched, and it was quickly learned that the Minoans had tied their faith to the Hittite's, and so a cease-fire similar to the one we signed with them was agreed to. The Minoans then eagerly started to talk about tech-trading, but that seemed only proper for the Kings of our nations to decide, and so the paths of the Assyrians and Minoans parted once again.
When the Assyrian scouts were well on their way, they received a last greeting from the Minoans:

Attachment: minoan.jpg
This has been downloaded 51 time(s).

	17-12-2003 07:42									#955
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Behold, the Great Day has come at last - all Egypt is united under Pharoah's Benevolent hand! The walls of the cursed Bandit City of Thebes lie in ruins and the rebellious Nubians have tasted the bitter dregs of defeat.

Pharoah is like unto a River to his People, and now the Blessings of Peace shall flow unimpeded across the length and breadth of the Sacred Nile Kingdom!

Attachment: egypt_b3050.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	19-12-2003 01:05									#956
	Put an end to popups!

Hey folks,
In order not to be the delaying factor in this game (as I have been often enough), I urge you to skip my turn if I can't make it in time. As I have posted before, there's much school now, and the time I get to play civ or check my internet activities is painfully scarce. I also go out much more often, because that seems to be the only way to get some sort of balance. But I am still interested in this game.

In other words, the Great King is in Great Stress and has a Great Demand for Tequila!

Attachment: cy_b3050.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	19-12-2003 06:33									#957
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Sleepy and boring the last 50 years have been for the greek...
Enjoy!

Attachment: pbem_bc_3050_to_minoan.net
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	19-12-2003 21:44									#958
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quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel Hey folks, In order not to be the delaying factor in this game (as I have been often enough), I urge you to skip my turn if I can't make it in time. As I have posted before, there's much school now, and the time I get to play civ or check my internet activities is painfully scarce. I also go out much more often, because that seems to be the only way to get some sort of balance. But I am still interested in this game. In other words, the Great King is in Great Stress and has a Great Demand for Tequila!

Make sure you keep Sparrowhawk aware of your password, and maybe tell him your long term strategy as well?

Happy Holidays, I wish you a great de-stressing period ahead

	20-12-2003 01:32									#959
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Actually a long term strategy won't mean much to me, as all I am doing is selected new techs if one is completed. (so a tech goal might help, but that's about it).

I will PM Stefan and ask him about passwords though.

* Sparrowhawk

(Edit: Name spelled wrong )

	20-12-2003 03:29									#960
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I have the game and shall play tomorrow.
Unfortunately, I also received a message from Straybow who is facing huge hardware problems.

Sparrowhawk, I suppose you must be ready to be the Hittite leader for this turn.