18-10-2002 16:39									#1
	BBC Sport rapes history Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/2283759.stm

quote: Macedonia's football team could do worse than turn to the nation's two most famous heroes for a little help. Neither Alexander the Great nor Mother Teresa of Calcutta would have gone near a football pitch but both could provide inspiration to the players of Macedonia. Macedonians bristle at any suggestion that the conqueror of the ancient world was a Greek, while Mother Teresa was born in Macedonia of Albanian stock. Alexander knew a thing or two about attacking formations, and his defensive ploys held off the best in their day. And what's the use of having what amounts to your own personal national saint if you cannot ask her for a favour or two? Although an ancient and proud kingdom, Macedonia only became an independent state again following the break-up of Yugoslavia.

well, well, well, BBC Sport says that Alexander was a FYROMian then i guess all discussions should stop now
and someone please send a note to Firaxis. they need to find a new Greek leader
and above all what the phrase "your own personal national saint" mean???

seriously, i cant start to comprehend what kind of idiot wrote this article....

	18-10-2002 16:49									#2
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He wasn't Greek he wasn't FYR either, not in the sense we know today.

He was from that region geographicaly, The country he headed bears no relation to either incarnation today.

	18-10-2002 16:50									#3
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If you read the part you quoted again Markos, I think you'll find it says in the third paragraph that it's the Macedonians who think Alexander was a countryman of theirs - not the BBC...

	18-10-2002 16:50									#4
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From what I understand he was Macedonian but the bit of Macedonia he was from, Pella, is currently part of modern Greece not modern Macedonia.

http://faq.macedonia.org/history/al....the.great.html

	18-10-2002 16:52									#5
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Ah victors write history, so it seems FYROM won , Tito was a smart a$$

	18-10-2002 16:54									#6
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Paiktis is gonna go ape when he sees this

	18-10-2002 16:55									#7
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Macedonia isn't in Greece..it's a separate country.

	18-10-2002 16:59									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG i cant start to comprehend what kind of idiot wrote this article

Probably a sports journalist - not a historian or a regional correspondent.

	18-10-2002 16:59									#9
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The FYROM seems to be located in the area the Romans called 'Dardania', not Macedonia (which is around Pella).

	18-10-2002 16:59									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Winston If you read the part you quoted again Markos, I think you'll find it says in the third paragraph that it's the Macedonians who think Alexander was a countryman of theirs - not the BBC...

when you write that he is their national hero without any comment on actual history then i take it that he is accepting their position

	18-10-2002 17:01									#11
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If the people who live there want him to be ther national hero i don't see what the problem is

	18-10-2002 17:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger He was from that region geographicaly, The country he headed bears no relation to either incarnation today.

less than 20% of FYROM is inside the geographical region of ancient macedonia


the capital Scopje (anient Scoupi) was never inside Macedonia except from the period that Philip II conquered the Dardanians....

	18-10-2002 17:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger If the people who live there want him to be ther national hero i don't see what the problem is

Exactly, I would never want Margaret Tatcher to be my heroine

	18-10-2002 17:07									#14
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger If the people who live there want him to be ther national hero i don't see what the problem is

the issue is not FYROMians having Alexander as a hero. the issue is BBC reports not knowing how to write about serious issues....

	18-10-2002 17:09									#15
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and again, how can a "national saint" be also "personal"??

	18-10-2002 17:11									#16
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That's a nice map.

Still you haven't copyrighted the name Macedonia on time in the US patent office ,

	18-10-2002 17:12									#17
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the issue is not FYROMians having Alexander as a hero. the issue is BBC reports not knowing how to write about serious issues....

I think it seems quite fair, the reorter is on the whole depicting the attitudes of the FYROMians.

I don't even think itsthat seriuos an issue, if they want to call their country macedonia and claim that they are the successors to a long lost nation then let them.

	18-10-2002 17:21									#18
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quote: the reorter is on the whole depicting the attitudes of the FYROMians

but not history....

quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I don't even think itsthat seriuos an issue, if they want to call their country macedonia and claim that they are the successors to a long lost nation then let them.

well a few years ago their constitution was saying that there were "brothers" in neighbour countries and it was their country's duty to "liberate" them. i guess that's harmless too....

i hereby claim that i descent from bill gates and i demand 25% of M$

	18-10-2002 17:21									#19
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I didn't know that mother Teresa was Macedonian... eh sorry, FYROMian

	18-10-2002 17:26									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf I didn't know that mother Teresa was Macedonian... eh sorry, FYROMian

She was a Catholic Albanian from Macedonia... go figure...

	18-10-2002 17:27									#21
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Mark, that definitely wasn't a serious article. Nowhere near it.

	18-10-2002 17:31									#22
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in 1910 there was no FYROM
her parents were Albanians...

	18-10-2002 17:34									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Mark, that definitely wasn't a serious article. Nowhere near it.

something tells me some english blokes will now "know" that Alexander the Great was a FYROMian.....


not to mention the use of the term Macedonia instead of the officially recognised name of FYROM....

	18-10-2002 17:34									#24
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So two of FYROM's greatest heroes weren't really FYROMian?

	18-10-2002 17:38									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG something tells me some english blokes will now "know" that Alexander the Great was a FYROMian.....

Ah not just English blokes... most of the world already 'knows' that you should have revised the history while you still could calling him Alexander the Greek ... it is too late to complain now.

Ok who could have guessed that a country will arise that will call themselves Macedonia again... but that's life... or history now too. I guess it would be easier if they were in South America and claiming that they are the descendants of Alexander :

	18-10-2002 17:38									#26
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Nah, 'cause none of us know what FYROM is, we just call it Macedonia.

	18-10-2002 17:38									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf So two of FYROM's greatest heroes weren't really FYROMian?

well, what can i say?
that's what happens when BBC Sport tries to mess with history....

	18-10-2002 17:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG something tells me some english blokes will now "know" that Alexander the Great was a FYROMian.....

we know that Alexander the Great was from a kingdom that was then called Macedonia.

We know that modern day FYROmac and Greece now occupy the territory of that kingdom.

That does not make Alexander either greek or FYRmac

	18-10-2002 17:46									#29
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave Ok who could have guessed that a country will arise that will call themselves Macedonia again... but that's life... or history now too.

it's wasnt some sort of accident but politics

1921 Yugoslavia census

code:
Ethnic   composition   (in  thousands,     percentages)
Serbs+Croats             8,946               74.4 
Slovenes		 1,024                8.5  
Other  Slavs               174                1.5 
Germans                    513                4.3 
Hungarians                 472                3.9 
Albanians                  441                3.7
Romanian                   229                1.9
Italians                    12                0.1                
Others 	                   201                1.7

1948 Yugoslavia censues

code:
 	(in   thousands)
Serbs        6,547    
Croats       3,784 
Slovenes     1,415
"Macedonians"  809
Mavrovounians  425
(Montenegrians)
Muslims        808

it's a miracle! a new nationality just happened to pop-up

	18-10-2002 17:48									#30
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But most "nationalities" are a 19th century invention, so in effect they created theres a 100 years too late