18-10-2002 17:49									#31
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger That does not make Alexander either greek or FYRmac

with the small exception that Alexander's title(one of them anyway) was "King of the Hellenes"(=Greeks)
so unless you questions the greekness of Greeks...

	18-10-2002 17:50									#32
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As I sad Tito was a smart a$$ noone could have predited that, but hey that is history... it works in miracolous ways...

	18-10-2002 17:51									#33
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG with the small exception that Alexander's title(one of them anyway) was "Kinf of the Hellenes"(=Greeks) so unless you questions the greekness of Greeks...

he was greek by 4th cebtury BC standards certainly, what that has to do with 21st century AD Greekness i don't know

	18-10-2002 17:52									#34
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Nevertheless Greece will get to expand its regional influence because of that one day... if it will still matter, and get lots of watermelons cheap

	18-10-2002 17:54									#35
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Tito didnt think of "Macedonia"
the whole thing was started by Bulgarians around 1890....
http://history.macedonia.gr/faq.htm#41
he just progressed the idea...

	18-10-2002 17:55									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG Tito didnt think of "Macedonia" the whole thing was started by Bulgarians around 1890.... http://history.macedonia.gr/faq.htm#41

Its just one big Balkan conspiracy isn't it

	18-10-2002 17:56									#37
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger he was greek by 4th cebtury BC standards certainly, what that has to do with 21st century AD Greekness i don't know

so you are questioning my connections with my ancient ancestors??

* MarkG open the forums admin area

	18-10-2002 18:01									#38
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If you go back that far I'm sure a lot of FYROMians are descended from Greek stock.

Same as a lot of Europeans are descended from Roman Citizens to some extent.

	18-10-2002 18:02									#39
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He was king of Macedonia first.

No-one in England will remember that article by the time we're reading about the two famous people to come from Lichenstein anyway.

	18-10-2002 18:05									#40
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG it's wasnt some sort of accident but politics 1921 Yugoslavia census code: Ethnic composition (in thousands, percentages) Serbs+Croats 8,946 74.4 Slovenes 1,024 8.5 Other Slavs 174 1.5 Germans 513 4.3 Hungarians 472 3.9 Albanians 441 3.7 Romanian 229 1.9 Italians 12 0.1 Others 201 1.7 1948 Yugoslavia censues code: (in thousands) Serbs 6,547 Croats 3,784 Slovenes 1,415 "Macedonians" 809 Mavrovounians 425 (Montenegrians) Muslims 808 it's a miracle! a new nationality just happened to pop-up

where did the macedonians come from then?

the montenegrians and muslims just happened to pop up too (I guess they were counted as serbs and serbs/croats in 1921)

and where did the hungarians go, there are still lots of them in Serbia (Vojvodina?).

	18-10-2002 18:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG so you are questioning my connections with my ancient ancestors?? * MarkG open the forums admin area

With some trepidation I would reply that you are definitley Greek, so it doesn't actually matter who your ancestors were.

Some of them were almost certainly from Ancient Greece, some were not my point is that it doesn't matter.

	18-10-2002 18:13									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf where did the macedonians come from then? the montenegrians and muslims just happened to pop up too (I guess they were counted as serbs and serbs/croats in 1921) and where did the hungarians go, there are still lots of them in Serbia (Vojvodina?).

i cant where everyone went but here's some info
http://history.macedonia.gr/faq.htm#21

	18-10-2002 18:38									#43
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That article was a bit confusing and maybe slightly biased, but I think it says that the FYROMians (Macedonian Slavs) are Bulgarians and Bulgarian-speaking Greeks.

	18-10-2002 18:40									#44
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Oh poor Macedonias, tell them that they are Bulgarians and they'd burn you if they could

	18-10-2002 18:55									#45
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What is it with the Greek obsession that Macedonia must be named FYROM? It's rather odd.

	18-10-2002 18:56									#46
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I thought that it always was Macedonia.

	18-10-2002 19:01									#47
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Woould it help this debate to say that if you've seen one dark-haired unibrow you've seen em all?

	18-10-2002 19:02									#48
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yes

	18-10-2002 19:03									#49
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Woould it help this debate to say that if you've seen one dark-haired unibrow you've seen em all?

Its the most constructive thing i've seen

	18-10-2002 19:08									#50
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By all fairness, the definition of ancient Macedonia is somewhat a matter of when you decide ancient is. MarkG's map is a pre-Philip II map of Macedonia. The Macedonia Alexander lived in was larger than that.

The whole thing is really about nationalism, a modern invention. Most of these and other interperations of ancient times are anachronical. Just look at Patikis22's idiotic ramblings about democracy as a greek invention and something that differs the Greeks from their neighbours. Anyone that nows something about modern history in Greece nows that it's bullshit.

Grow up, as far as I know there's at least one Athens in the US but no one is *****ing about that.

	18-10-2002 19:11									#51
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What is it with the Greek obsession that Macedonia must be named FYROM? It's rather odd.

it IS named fyrom....

	18-10-2002 19:17									#52
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG it IS named fyrom....

Only because of the Greek tendency to ***** and moan about the most pointless of things. I don't the the UK whining about the fact that we use the names Oxford, etc.

	18-10-2002 19:19									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin The Macedonia Alexander lived in was larger than that.

you cant count in Philip's conquered areas

if you go that way, you could say that Greeks should own most of the middle east cause once we conquered those parts

quote: Grow up, as far as I know there's at least one Athens in the US but no one is *****ing about that.

well it happens that those... Athenians dont proclaim that they are desdendants of Alexander the Great nor do they want to "liberate" their "brothers" in neighbouring states

	18-10-2002 19:23									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I don't the the UK whining about the fact that we use the names Oxford, etc.

do you have any brothers to liberate in the UK(except Tony Blair)?
do you think Queen Elizabeth is a national hero?

	18-10-2002 19:28									#55
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I think that US should become 5th UK state, and therefore the Queen would finally resume the rule over the ocean after two and a half centuries. The capital would be London of course, and the currency British dollar

	18-10-2002 19:37									#56
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We don't want it, it's full of bloody Americans.

	18-10-2002 20:04									#57
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG you cant count in Philip's conquered areas if you go that way, you could say that Greeks should own most of the middle east cause once we conquered those parts well it happens that those... Athenians dont proclaim that they are desdendants of Alexander the Great nor do they want to "liberate" their "brothers" in neighbouring states

They celebrate Bastille Day in Paris, Tennessee!

	18-10-2002 20:04									#58
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double post

Last edited by DaShi on 18-10-2002 at 20:17

	18-10-2002 20:09									#59
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triple post

Last edited by DaShi on 18-10-2002 at 20:17

	18-10-2002 20:19									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG you cant count in Philip's conquered areas if you go that way, you could say that Greeks should own most of the middle east cause once we conquered those parts

That was a very 'Greek' way to interpret that. The 'normal' way should be to acknowledge the absurdity of the entire debate.