03-11-2002 06:58									#241
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Wallabies -v- Pumas.

Final score:

Wallabies 17 -d- 6

Pretty much more of the same in the second half. Incredibly, the Pumas #10 missed 7 penalty kicks for the match, the vast majority of them kickable. I can't believe they didn't have a back-up kicker.

Good points for the Wallabies out of the match would be the speed and cohesion in defence and Steve Larkham's form - particularly his kicking. With the Pumas line always up - and frequently offside, though unpenalised - he probably kicked about 90% of the time, and his precision was superb. It was obviously a strategy, with not much emphasis on running rugby.

The bad points would have to be Ben Tune's injury and the handling errors - which, hopefully, the outing will have helped.

All in all, I suppose it would be deemed a professional effort. They will obviously have to lift against the oppo over the next couple of weeks but I can't imagine those teams will play the same scrappy, spoiling game the Pumas do.

	03-11-2002 07:05									#242
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Scores of interest to the thread:

Gloucester 18 -d- Northampton Saints 9
Leicester Tigers 9 -d- London Wasps 6

And not a single try between them.

Toulouse 43 -d- Perpignan 20

Last edited by finbar on 03-11-2002 at 07:19

	03-11-2002 08:13									#243
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Ooooh... My 10.5 on Oz holds out by 1/2

Steve Devine won't play for the ABs

	03-11-2002 08:29									#244
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quote: Originally posted by redbull Ooooh... My 10.5 on Oz holds out by 1/2

Not quite. Actually, there was no official betting on the match. For starters, the closest we got to setting a margin was a figure of 12 1/2 points but, for some reason, it was never comfirmed. If it had been confirmed, the Wallabies would have had to have won by 13 or more for a Wallaby backer to win. Added to which, no one had lined up to back the Pumas, so there wouldn't have been any money to win. It would have been money back.

quote: Steve Devine won't play for the ABs

That isn't yet the case. The IRB has asked some questions. The answers will determine his eligibility. I think it's a matter of whether his appearance for Australia in a 7s competition disqualifies him from being an AB.

Edit. Oops. Just checked the latest news. He has been ruled ineligible. What a bizarre situation. The NZRFU is now saying they checked Devine's rep history for Australia "but didn't dig deep enough". They didn't know he played rep 7s for Australia? He didn't tell them?

I suspect they knew, and, as it says on the NZRFU website, they were always going to ask for dispensation on the basis that his Australian 7s appearance occurred two years prior to the writing of the law that said 7s counted as senior rep rugby. Good luck with that sort of logic, chaps.

	03-11-2002 10:03									#245
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Ok, Im really getting worried. The Fox Sports rugby schedule is available online, and there are none of the NH tour games showing up!! If I have to miss them all I think I'm going to cry...

	03-11-2002 15:49									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Ok, Im really getting worried. The Fox Sports rugby schedule is available online, and there are none of the NH tour games showing up!! If I have to miss them all I think I'm going to cry...

It's okay, Cal, we'll post the scores for you as they happen. In fact, I'm prepared to post running commentaries.

But I can't believe they're not going to show any of them. The odd thing this morning was that the FoxSports feed live from Argentina was an ESPN feed. Yet ESPN weren't covering the match.

	04-11-2002 00:02									#247
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Toulouse 43 -d- Perpignan 20

The match was really pleasing though the "Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan" has been unable to raise its play level to reach the Toulousains' one. The players of the Stade Toulousain have played a nearly perfect first half and have scored some beautiful tries, two of which were scored by the little marvel called Vincent Clerc who has been recently selected to play the test-matches to come.

Bad news for Clément Poitrenaud, the Stade Toulousain and French national team full back, who has been injured to the ribs while scoring a try in the game against Perpignan and won't play the test-matches.

	04-11-2002 03:05									#248
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Even more Wallaby injuries out of the Pumas match. Ben Tune, indeed, is coming home and faces six months out of the game. His replacement for the tour is Mark Bartholomeusz, a Brumbie winger. Handy player, but this is a big step up for him. Jeremy Paul (who had a suspect hammy and probably shouldn't have played anyway) has another injury and will miss next week against the Irish, as will Matt Rogers.

The truly scary thing is that, with Ben Tune's injury, Wendell Sailor now becomes a senior winger. The acid's on you now, Wendell.

There is also likely to be at least one eye-gouging citing (of a Puma player) out of the Pumas match. There were a couple of very dodgy looking incidents caught on camera. One that I saw has resulted in Matt Cockbain making an official complaint - one of his contact lenses was popped out in the incident. Replacement hooker Adam Freier also seemed to have his eyes targeted but I haven't heard any more about that one yet.

Players' hands have absolutely no reason to be anywhere near other players' eyes during a match.

	04-11-2002 14:47									#249
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Absolutely. Gouging is disgusting and very dangerous. It has no place in the game.

Haven’t had time to catch up with the thread. I will do so later. I am still very angry after Saturday. I suppose I brought it on myself after praising Mr White earlier in the year but I have not seen such an inept performance from a referee in years. Two things really got my goat – not making the flankers bind at the scrum (so Dallaglio was offside more than he was onside at the scrum (he played blindside not 8) and no concept of offside at all. Our young fly half was exposed very badly because Mr White was letting them encroach time and time again.

Conditions were truly awful – it rained solidly throughout – but the ref kept a poor side in the game until the last few minutes. We could have lost and yet we utterly dominated territory and possession. Yes, still angry here.

You know what I am going to say don’t you? Chris White was sent for tri-nations duty. He has returned polluted. He ignores all the things SH refs do to ensure ‘continuity’. Another good ref sacrificed on the altar of SH practices?

Bottom line – if it’s in the laws it should be applied – and if opposing backs are reaching your stand off as soon as he receives ball from the scrum then that offside is affecting the game? Finbar?

Then again – I may not be being entirely serious. He was poor, but the conditions excuse a lot of it I suppose.

What about Saracens? Threw away a commanding lead at Leeds – Sheflord will not last long under Nigel Wray unless things pick up soon.

	04-11-2002 16:52									#250
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Absolutely. Gouging is disgusting and very dangerous. It has no place in the game.

I caught a couple of the gouging "highlights" on TV tonight. It was the Puma hooker who was clearly gouging. The Puma tactics left a lot to be desired for most of the game, actually. Pity. They'd brought back all their European-based players for the occasion and some of them showed some skill.

quote: You know what I am going to say don’t you? Chris White was sent for tri-nations duty. He has returned polluted. He ignores all the things SH refs do to ensure ‘continuity’. Another good ref sacrificed on the altar of SH practices?

Queen got it right: "Another one bites the dust ... "

quote: Bottom line – if it’s in the laws it should be applied – and if opposing backs are reaching your stand off as soon as he receives ball from the scrum then that offside is affecting the game? Finbar?

Hard to reach the 5/8 at the same time as the ball without being offside, I'd've thought. The NZ ref on the weekend let the Pumas come up offside most of the match. That's why they spent most of the match turning around and chasing the ball behind them.

quote: Then again – I may not be being entirely serious.

Pity. You're kind of cute when you're angry.

quote: What about Saracens? Threw away a commanding lead at Leeds – Sheflord will not last long under Nigel Wray unless things pick up soon.

It has surprised me that Leeds are still up there.

	04-11-2002 18:24									#251
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quote: They'd brought back all their European-based players for the occasion and some of them showed some skill.

I think their game is improving considerably thanks to their players getting European experience.

quote: That's why they spent most of the match turning around and chasing the ball behind them.

Kicking conditions were terrible, even Stimmo missed a couple of penalties and he is in the Wilkinson class. They were blatantly offside at times and I kid you know, Vesty was caught taking possession several times. The linesmen had clearly been told Mr White would run the game thank you very much.

quote: Pity. You're kind of cute when you're angry.

There is simply no answer to that!

quote: It has surprised me that Leeds are still up there.

I have to hand it to them, they are playing some great rugby right now. I still think there squad lacks the resilience to still be there in May. Time will tell.
But then Gloucester may struggle when Gomersalls (scrummy) brief flirtation with form ends.

Right I had best catch up with my reading…

	04-11-2002 19:13									#252
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quote: Originally posted by finbar It's okay, Cal, we'll post the scores for you as they happen. In fact, I'm prepared to post running commentaries.

I hope it wont come to that. I'm hoping they will at least have the games on a pay-per-view channel.

quote: But I can't believe they're not going to show any of them. The odd thing this morning was that the FoxSports feed live from Argentina was an ESPN feed. Yet ESPN weren't covering the match.

I'm waiting for them to post their next schedule on the website. So far it goes as far as the 10th, but there's no sign of the euro tour games.

http://www.foxsportsworld.com/world/pdf/fsw45.pdf

	04-11-2002 20:04									#253
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Neil Back dropped from England team after recieving full frontal lobotomy

Doctors realised they may have gone too far after Tigers star Neil Back lost the ability to speak as a result of his operation last thursday. An unforseen but positive side effect, however, enabled Neil to stop his uncontrolable drooling. England coach Clive Woodward was not so positive - "without that long string of saliva hanging from his bottom lip he just isnt the same. The intimidation factor is gone.".

Attachment: neil_back1.jpg
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Last edited by Caligastia on 04-11-2002 at 20:14

	04-11-2002 20:34									#254
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Do you realise you have just committed the equivalent of calling Kronfeld a "simpering idiot"???

Cardinal sin. Backy is legend - you've seen the 'Back hander' for yourself after all.

Having said that his face bears testiment to his commitment - 15 years back he was a fresh faced young lad with almost model looks and long blond hair. Rugger has cost him all that.

Oh yeah and that Stimmo kick was even more nerve racking live. He is in the England squad this autumn as back up for Wilko as kicker.

	04-11-2002 20:44									#255
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Do you realise you have just committed the equivalent of calling Kronfeld a "simpering idiot"???

Well he did leave NZ...

quote: Originally posted by Havak Cardinal sin. Backy is legend - you've seen the 'Back hander' for yourself after all.

I was mocking the photo more than the player . I do actually respect him, especially after seeing that review show.

quote: Oh yeah and that Stimmo kick was even more nerve racking live. He is in the England squad this autumn as back up for Wilko as kicker.

Were you at the game? Either way you must have been a wreck!

	05-11-2002 05:44									#256
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Neil Back dropped from England team after recieving full frontal lobotomy...

Images of our favorite players in action can also look terrific, even a player with a doctorate can look as dumb as a rock when he is running looking eyes wide at the try line with the tongue out of his mooth distorted by the exertion and the need for more oxygen.

	05-11-2002 13:30									#257
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quote: Well he did leave NZ...

Actually since the rumour he wanted to leave and Tigers giving him a few starts he has played at a different level again - he is still quality, I'm sure he would still be wearing the black jersey if he wanted to?

quote: I was mocking the photo more than the player . I do actually respect him, especially after seeing that review show.

No worries - my reply was tongue in cheek. Backy has been a superb player, he is still very good but time waits for no man. The fact he is sat on the bench Saturday, and healey too, says a lot about the strength of our squad this year. Backy is still quality and you will see him at some point in the game.

I see Grewcock starts with Kay on the bench. That I'm not convinced of. But Stimmo has made the bench - he deserves it.

quote: Were you at the game? Either way you must have been a wreck!

I was in the stand at the opposite end. We only knew he had scored because of the welsh crowds reaction down that end.

quote: even a player with a doctorate can look as dumb as a rock when he is running looking eyes wide at the try line with the tongue out his mooth distorted by the exertion and the need for more oxygen.

Maybe that explains why Finbar gets such a wrong impression of Mr Johnson?

	05-11-2002 19:53									#258
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Actually since the rumour he wanted to leave and Tigers giving him a few starts he has played at a different level again - he is still quality, I'm sure he would still be wearing the black jersey if he wanted to?

I havent seen him play for a while, but he probably would, yes.

quote: Maybe that explains why Finbar gets such a wrong impression of Mr Johnson?

I like Jonno's look actually. He is the quintessential rough english forward.

	05-11-2002 20:22									#259
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Well as ever the best accolade I can give Josh is that I am glad we are not facing him Saturday.

One intriguing thing here is the inclusion of Simpson-Daniel on our wing rather than Healey. This lad is a pure pace merchant, being the boy who skinned Lomu not once but twice when England played the Barbarians last.

He exposed Jonah badly for his (lack of?) defensive qualities then, and he is a bold choice for Woodward over the more all round skills of Healey. It is all getting very intriguing isn't it?

Jonno has that kind of 'lived in face' look does he not?

	05-11-2002 21:08									#260
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quote: Originally posted by Havak One intriguing thing here is the inclusion of Simpson-Daniel on our wing rather than Healey. This lad is a pure pace merchant, being the boy who skinned Lomu not once but twice when England played the Barbarians last. He exposed Jonah badly for his (lack of?) defensive qualities then, and he is a bold choice for Woodward over the more all round skills of Healey. It is all getting very intriguing isn't it?

I really dont understand why Mitchell is including Lomu. There are better, younger players who could use the experience and have shown better form recently. Perhaps its the intimidation factor. Maybe Mitchell is hoping England will still have the 95 semi-final on their mind.

I just hope Lomu will live up to whatever expectations Mitchell has for him.

quote: Jonno has that kind of 'lived in face' look does he not?

The face of a true forward.

	05-11-2002 21:24									#261
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You have it spot on - he is there purely because he has an excellent record against England. But it's three years since his last decent show against them and seven years since the Tony Underwood debacle. Cohen and Simpson Daniel will be different prospects to poor old Tony.

Again it's all interesting stuff.

	05-11-2002 21:29									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Havak You have it spot on - he is there purely because he has an excellent record against England. But it's three years since his last decent show against them and seven years since the Tony Underwood debacle. Cohen and Simpson Daniel will be different prospects to poor old Tony. Again it's all interesting stuff.

I just hope I get to see the game. Right now my only option is to go to a pub that is showing it on satellite. The problem is that the game is on at the same time that I have to go in to work for a couple of hours. Of course, the first time this year I have to work on saturday falls on the exact time of a huge rugby game. The pub might replay the game later in the day, but even so I will have to pay a $20 cover charge to see it.

	05-11-2002 22:27									#263
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Nobody's wants to bet on the following games ?

Some margins ? I think a simple win/loose is adequate for both matches.

In order of appearance : 10 Golds on England, 10 Golds on France.

	05-11-2002 22:30									#264
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I'm too upset to place a bet. I hope England beat the All Blacks, that way I wont be so disappointed about missing the game.

	06-11-2002 03:13									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Maybe that explains why Finbar gets such a wrong impression of Mr Johnson?

In a word ... no way in the %#!@*^% world.

	06-11-2002 03:16									#266
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin In order of appearance : 10 Golds on England, 10 Golds on France.

Which games are you talking about?

	06-11-2002 03:26									#267
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Incredibly, nothing has come of the eye-gouging incidents in the Wallabies-Puma match. Whomever was responsible for citing players decided there was no case to answer. Yet replays clearly show the Puma hooker gouging Matt Cockbain's eyes. Thus, yet again, Eddie Jones calls for a review of the citing system. It's getting beyond a joke.

In other news, only God knows who will line up in which position for the Wallabies against the Irish on the weekend. With Matt Rogers injured and Matt Burke a borderline fitness proposition, the candidates for fullback are Steve Larkham (who started his career at fullback) and Stirling Mortlock (who has played there a couple of times in his life). If Larkham goes to fullback - which I think is most likely - Elton Flatley will start at 5/8. Jeremy Paul is definitely out, so Adam Freir will start his first Test as hooker. Any more injuries this week and we will struggle to field a team against the Poms.

	06-11-2002 03:37									#268
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Which games are you talking about?

As I don't know if you are joking or if you have had a bad awakening here are the games I'am talking about, both played Saturday :

England - New Zealand (Twickenham)
France - South Africa (Stade Vélodrome de Marseille)

In order to help you, how kind I'am, I have highlighted the team that will win this test-matches. I don't want you to loose some golds betting on the wrong horse.

	06-11-2002 03:41									#269
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I'm too upset to place a bet. I hope England beat the All Blacks, that way I wont be so disappointed about missing the game.

Surely one of the greatest kicks out of the field of Rugby's history.

	06-11-2002 05:14									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin As I don't know if you are joking or if you have had a bad awakening here are the games I'am talking about, both played Saturday : England - New Zealand (Twickenham) France - South Africa (Stade Vélodrome de Marseille)

How could you know if I was joking if I didn't know myself?

quote: In order to help you, how kind I'am, I have highlighted the team that will win this test-matches. I don't want you to loose some golds betting on the wrong horse.

I'm going to have a close look at the AB team before I consider betting on their match with England.