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Capt Dizle
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
As I noted in previous post, they still weren't killing people on regular basis. That means probably everything would have been peacefully settled with much less victims. In all other cases before Chechen terrorists also said they are going to die, but later, when food lack came into case, etc. They all agreed to surrend on much less demands. Probably these terrorists would have also surrendered only for letting them free and some amount iof money later, when they would have seen that it is not possible to get troops removed from Chechnya. |
Let them go free and give them money? You have to be shitting me?
Run do not walk to your nearest medical facility and have MRI administered ASAP. I fear you are leaking brain matter from one or more HOLES IN YOUR HEAD.
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Capt Dizle
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
As I noted in previous post, they still weren't killing people on regular basis. That means probably everything would have been peacefully settled with much less victims. In all other cases before Chechen terrorists also said they are going to die, but later, when food lack came into case, etc. They all agreed to surrend on much less demands. Probably these terrorists would have also surrendered only for letting them free and some amount iof money later, when they would have seen that it is not possible to get troops removed from Chechnya. |
Can you define exactly how regularly it is necessary to kill hostages to warrant action being taken?
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Promethus
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Battle Creek, Michigan
Jan 2002
time: 00:23
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What unfolded in the theater appears to have amounted to a risky test of a previously undisclosed chemical agent that ended with disastrously unintended consequences.
Andrei P. Seltovsky, the chairman of the health committee, said tonight that he did not even know the name of the gas, parrying questions toward what he called the "competent authorities," strongly suggesting that the gas was developed by the military or security forces as part of some secret program.
More than a day and a half after the raid, officials refused either to confirm that or to identify the gas, rebuffing even a direct request from the United States Embassy. Experts in Russia and the United States said that its use — and the official silence enveloping it — were raising troubling questions about Russia's compliance with the international treaty banning chemical weapons.
Lev A. Fyodorov, who once worked in the Soviet chemical weapons agency and is now the president of the Social and Ecological Union for Chemical Safety, said the gas appeared to be a Valium-based agent developed for the military during the Soviet era, and still a state secret.
Vil S. Mirzayanov, a former colleague of Mr. Fyodorov's at the chemical weapons agency who was twice imprisoned for reporting in 1991 that the Soviet Union had continued to develop and test chemical weapons after publicly denouncing them, said that in 1988 the agency had altered the molecular structure of an incapacitating agent, BZ, which the United States studied extensively in the 1960's.
From NYT
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Promethus
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Battle Creek, Michigan
Jan 2002
time: 00:23
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The health officials said the stress of 57 hours of captivity, along with hunger and poor sanitary conditions, compounded the effects. Echoing the statements of doctors who treated the victims, Mr. Fyodorov said the deaths appeared to result directly from poisoning from overexposure, with symptoms including breathing disorders, loss of blood pressure and shock to the heart, liver and kidneys.
"This weapon was developed to be used on healthy men who serve in the army," he said, explaining why so many died. "It was used here on some of the so-called risk groups — women, children, people with liver and kidney problems."
Amy E. Smithson, an expert in chemical weapons at the Henry L. Stimson Center, an arms research organization in Washington, said the official explanations of the gas left many unanswered questions about Russia's compliance with the treaty, including whether the military had developed the gas and the method in which it was used.
"This is kind of like pornography: you know it when you see it," she said of the gray areas in the treaty. "There are going to be people on both sides who will argue that the treaty does not prohibit it. But how it was used, I think, is going to make it a huge debate."
From NYT
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Sir Og
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Lurking in Stara Zagora, Bulgaria
Jun 2001
time: 07:23
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I think that Russians have handled the situation pretty well given the circumstances. We should all bare in mind that the whole thing could have ended with 700+ people dead under the ruined theater building.
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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
This is not the issue, IMHO, but rather that the special forces panicked and assaulted without proper preparations. They thought the terrorists were killing the hostages (which turned out to be false), which prompted the special forces to attack. Had the special forces waited several hours more, they would have had time to get in enough doctors with anti-dotes, ambulances and first aid equipment.
The leader of the chechens (and all other terrorists in the theatre, too) did not look like they were very unstable or unpredictable. They had some very serious real threaths, but at no point was there any evidence that they would have used them without being provoked to. |
From one of my posts, earlier in this thread:
quote:
The presence of 18 female suicide fighters with explosives strapped to their waists among the hundreds of frightened theatregoers added to the atmosphere of fear and violence, Chernyak said.
"These Chechen girls, they were so happy that finally they were about to be free, that finally they were about to blow themselves up," Chernyak said.
She said the women -- each carrying up to two kilos (4.4 pounds) of explosives stuffed with ball-bearings and nails -- repeatedly told terrified hostages they were looking forward to dying and taking others with them.
"When they heard a noise from outside -- some eight hours before the storming -- they immediately dispersed among the audience," Chernyak said.
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"did not look like they were very unstable or unpredictable"?
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28-10-2002 08:48
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