07-12-2002 23:15									#31
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Concerning workers :

Maybe someone should "model" the tiles of every city using the editor with the needed improvements and the order of their constructions.

This someone(not me! ) will use the editor to simulate the surroundings of our empire and add irrigation, mines, roads etc to every needed square in the city.
So when the controller plays the game, he will look on those maps and know what to put next and where.

	07-12-2002 23:16									#32
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quote: My recommendation for the next worker action is to build a road west to speed up the movement of the settlers and warriors out of The Voice. With a road, we will get that next city built faster than the others.

Yes, that was already decided upon.

	08-12-2002 03:04									#33
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OK I played the game. since we decided to build the road to the west I moved the worker to the west. We now have a road!!

Also I moved the warrior to the west as well. We can decide to send him to the SW or NW onto the hills. I like to utilize hills to see far. Or we can move him to the south.

I also didn't change city production yet. I'm not sure what we have decided to build yet. We can change without penalty so no bid deal. We will have to see if we can crank out a settler.

	08-12-2002 03:06									#34
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Can you get a screenshot of the city screen?

	08-12-2002 13:15									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

the city screen? I usually do a screen shot of the world map. If I play again, I'll take screenshots of both and mail them.

	08-12-2002 18:16									#36
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Dissident :

If i'm there when Togas sends the next turn, let me play it. ok? I want to update the thread of everything and I need the save for that.

	08-12-2002 23:25									#37
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OK I'll send you the save.

We really haven't discussed any changes. I'll just make a few suggestions. If we can build a settler without losing turns then I say we change production to a settler.

We can beging building the road with the worker.

The warrior can either move NW or SW onto the hills. Or go south- it looks like the land continues in that direction as well- luckily.

	09-12-2002 01:13									#38
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3750BCE

The worker started roading the West tile.
The warrior moved to a hill to get a better view.

City growth calculations :
Now the worked tiles are the center and the roaded forest with game. The next best tile for a size 2 city is the non-roaded forest with game or the cow tile.

Now the city produces : (Food, Shield, Commerce)
Center tile - 2,1,3
Roaded forest - 2,2,1

Tile #3 :
The unroaded forest - 2,2,0
Or
The cows(it will expand by then) - 3,1,0

At this point we have:
Net food - 2.
Net shield - 3.
Turns to grow - 5.
Building - Warrior.
Shields ready - 3/10.

When the city reaches size two it will have 3+5*3=18 shields and will use all three tiles.

Which means that our THIRD warrior will be ready one turn after size 2.

Now the Ifs -

If we use the second forest as the third tile :
The net food will be 2, so 10 turns till size 3.
The net production will be 5.

In the 9 turns before the city grows to size 3 it will produce 45 shields(it's 9 because of the turn to build the third warrior).
Enough to build either 1 warrior and 1 settler who will be ready a turn before schedule.
Or TWO warriors and one Settler that will be ready a turn after schedule.

Result -
Settler ready after 20 turns, with 4 warriors.
OR
Settler ready after 21 turns, with 5 warriors.
(20 or 21 turns from the beginning of the game of course)

If we go for the cows :
The net food will be 3, so 7 turns till size 3.
The net production will be 4.
In the six turns before the city grows to size 3 it will produce 4*6=24 shields. Which means that we'll have to start building a settler immediately after the third warrior.
It will grow to size 3 and use the game non roaded forest as a fourth tile so the settler will be ready one turn after schedule.

Result -
Settler ready after 18 turns, with 3 warriors.

----------------------------

IMO the choice is obvious.
Go for the 21 turns/5 warriors option.

Note that each pair of warriors can be replaced by a single spearman.

--------------------------



that was long.

-------------------------

Note - I checked it all in the simulated map, but you should still run your own calculations just in case.

Last edited by Eli on 09-12-2002 at 01:19

	09-12-2002 01:17									#39
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More :

1) Map and city screenshots were emailed to everyone.

2) The worker will be building roads, I didnt include them in the calculatios because they will affect only commerce.

	09-12-2002 01:50									#40
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we have ocea over those hills, right?

what do we have to the south?

and if we are on an island, a settler 3 turns earlier is worth the 2 warriors (I Think)

Jon Miller

	09-12-2002 02:03									#41
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The only visible sea tiles are coasts and seas.

In the screenshot I sent you can see a hill on the other side of the coast channel in the west.

I'm not certain, but IMO it indicates that we are on a peninsula, because I dont remember seeing two continents with only one tile wide coast between them.

But then those can be two islands... I dont know.

In any case, it is still more likely that we're on a relatively large landmass so the 21/5 option is better.

	09-12-2002 02:12									#42
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also rethinking things, the limiting bit on tiremes will be how long it takes us to learn the technology

not how fast we build a city

Jon Miller

	09-12-2002 02:12									#43
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(also, I must admit that I call everything ocean)

Jon Miller

	09-12-2002 02:16									#44
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I suspect the peninsula opens to the south. Looks like a big stretch of grassland. I say - 21/5.

	09-12-2002 02:19									#45
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I wonder if North West connects to anything? Doubt it, but you never know.

	09-12-2002 03:29									#46
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I think we should increase our science rate to 100

Jon Miller

	09-12-2002 12:06									#47
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it looks like the NE is the edge of the island (or peninsula)

so we should move the warrior to the south. (we can use the second warrior to get on top of that mountain and scan the sea for fish/whales)

I agree on raising science rate if it definately speeds up our techs/turn rate.

	09-12-2002 17:45									#48
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What about the warrior/settler build options?

Do everyone agree on 21/5? Wittlich, Flash, Beta, please post your opinions.

	09-12-2002 17:57									#49
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Eli - see above ... ... 21/5 for me. I think we are going to have open plains to the south that will need a walkabout.

	09-12-2002 23:01									#50
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I wasn't sure what you meant by 21/5. But I should be OK with it.

	09-12-2002 23:11									#51
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21/5 means the settler after 21 turns with 5 warriors.

The other options are 20/4 and 18/3.

Important note:

When the city grows to size two, the third square will be automaticall chosen by the AI to the cows tile. Whoever plays the turn should remove the cows tile and choose the second forest with game tile.

	09-12-2002 23:17									#52
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you don't want the city to grow? we should also think about getting irrigation to that eventually.

	10-12-2002 06:01									#53
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Ah yes - the fine debate between improving the capitol or building the roads out to the hinterland. I vote for the roads. To get to a city site 6 tiles away, we will have saved 4 turns which could be used for the new city to be building.

	10-12-2002 06:07									#54
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Then again - I've never modelled it - ie the worker stays and improves the city - including irrigation - versus the lost build time at the new site. I still say roads - during the early turns - when settlers are being turned out - the capitol's pop is up and down - and during the down turns, some of the improved tiles don't get used - which for that period anyway - is wasted effort.

I am sure Velocyrix or someone must has quantified or at least discussed this somewhere, but I can't recall this comparison.

Again - my vote is for roads - expand the empire. Oh yes - and connect the luxury while we are at it ..

	10-12-2002 11:01									#55
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I concur - Concentrate on those roads (and getting the luxury linked up to our empire).

Concerning irrigation, we can irrigate at a later time (when the Capitol is reaching it's maximum population and needs irrigation inorder to grow - which shouldn't be happening any time soon, since we should be concentrating on cranking out those settlers.

	10-12-2002 12:52									#56
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I agree.

	10-12-2002 13:32									#57
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OK the roads sounds good. We may have to turn our road making to the sough (it is west right now). I'll send updated screenshots if I can gather everyone's e-mail. The juicy sites will probably be to the south. I am sending the warrior south to investigate.

With our warrior coming out in 2 turns I propose that we send him north to uncover the remaining areas left in black. Then we can send him south.

	10-12-2002 13:50									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The city should grow in 4 turns IIRC, so we should also consider connecting the incense.

	10-12-2002 13:54									#59
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I don't know why that file is so big. And Yahoo won't send a file so big . I was trying to send the screen shot. Well anyways more of the south is opened up. No rivers unfortunately. Lots of plains.

	10-12-2002 13:57									#60
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Maybe it's because the file format is BMP? Try to convert it to jpg.