18-12-2002 21:42									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Same here...No.

	18-12-2002 22:47									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

OK - that's a majority. I'll respond this evening. However, I am going to use the excuse that we don't think it is in the spirit of the game. This will cover our tracks a bit.

	19-12-2002 07:44									#33
	Tired of ads?

Interesting stuff this one - language is a bit difficult - silly Spaniards. But he does mention that the other civs have nmet each other. Hmmm.. Also - please note that he has not provided any information really, as to where the are. Here it is:

Explorers
Ah! My good friend BetaHound, there is importatn thing to discuss!
Our warriors have legt to try a contact with your civilization, but they ask If your city is in sea sight, forth then we could follow the shores of our land way north.
Also we must make this contact as early as possible, as many other civs seem to have already made contact with each other!
Please answer quickly,
your friend,
Nuclearis Winterius the II
__________________
Señor Nuclearis Winterius the II,
Squid Lord, Wine Marquis, and Diplomat with the Voxians...

This is from Roleplay of course. Any thoughts on response?

	19-12-2002 08:40									#34
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here was my no to GoW and Panzer32, sent this evening:

Respectfully Decline
Dear Panzer32

I regret to inform you that Vox Controli declines your offer of a trade of mini-maps. It is not that we don't look forward to meeting your fine nation, despite your somewhat warlike demeanour. No, the reason for our declining is that we feel a trade of mini-maps outside of the game is not in keeping with the intended spirit of the game. When we do meet in the game, we will be more than willing to entertain at that time a possible trade of world or territory maps.

Again - my regrets that we could not do business along the lines you requested. I trust this will not jeopardize future communications between our civilizations, and look forward to speaking with you in the near future.

Regards.

BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli

	19-12-2002 17:59									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

See the post above regarding Roleplay. They are getting restless. This was sent to jon who forwarded it onto me. What is interesting is that it was about a day after the other one. Which means they must really want to meet us. I think it is probably a good idea - they are probably wandering up the coast towards us. So I will write something back and say 'sure'. Will do that around noon today - so if anybody has any objections, let me know soon. Here's RP's (Spain's) note to jon.

Togas wrote on 18-12-2002 22:51:
Jon,

I've asked my ambassador, Nuclear Winter, to send your ambassador some urgent messages, however he informs me that he has yet to hear back from betahound.

This is an important matter to me. I've heard responsed from most of the other civs my ambassadors have sent messages to, but not from your civ.

Good relations with your civ is very important to me. I feel that we have more in common than most. I have heard from your book of Controllians and I rather enjoyed your creativity and style. You guys have a very interesting theme and feel to you that meshes well with our quasi-historical style.

Anyhow. Look into it. A part of me figures your people are probably just talking over our offers before you write back. But just to ease my worries and my poor ambassador who's trying his best to prove to me that he's not slacking, let us know. And see if you can't get beta to write back a bit.

Thanks. I look forward to hearing from you.

--Togas
[/quote]

	19-12-2002 18:12									#36
	Got spare money?

Went and checked the PM log. Less than a day. Nuclear Winter's note came in at 20:00 last night (18th). So they are indeed restless - I suspect they may be one of the civs boxed in further down the continent.

Or being Roleplayers, maybe they like my letters and they want to be friends.

At any rate, and for your info, this is what went in the original note a number of days ago to Nuclear Winter regarding our location.

"You have asked for our understanding of where we are in the world, in order to facilitate contact as soon as possible. We expect similar information in return.

The Civilization of Vox Controli sits in the Northern Hemisphere, and from our initial understanding of the world, to the East. (As you appreciate my dear sir, perspective is everything.) There is much ocean to be seen, however we reside on a landmass of, as yet, undetermined proportions. It is a fine land, with much promise."


Again - note that we have not received any indication of their location in return.

	19-12-2002 23:49									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ok - you folks sick of hearing from me yet??

Another decision to make. Picahulu of Neu Demogyptica has indicated where they are (well - sort of), and asks if we want to share where we are. I think it may be a good idea - similar to what we did with Spain. Here is his note. What do you think?

Our location in the world
Dear Betahound,

i am pleased to tell you that the people of Neu Demogyptica like your idea of sharing the information of where we are in the world. The only condition we demand is that you keep this information absolutely secret to any other civs. We'd promise to keep your position secret too, presupposed you demand it.

Nevertheless if you know any other civs whom you didn't promise to keep their location confidential, we may trade such information too.

We are in the center of the world! After telling us your position, we even could organize a meeting somewhere. Does your civilization posesses scouts? We do, that's why we could probably meet at a reasonable time.

Sincerly yours,
Picahulu, Chief Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica

	20-12-2002 04:02									#38
	Support Apolyton

Here is the response to Nuclear Winter of Spain - for your reading pleasure. Will be interesting to see if we get any locational info from them.

Dear Nuclearis Winterius

Thank-you for your letter of the 18th. We appreciate the need to meet as soon as possible. Business awaits us. Alas, we must meet first. And to this end, we, the people of the One Voice responded positively to your request to identify - as best we could - where we reside in this wonderful, albeit shrouded world. I'm sure you will recall my 'directions' from my first correspondence.

So yes, we are eager to meet. We would also appreciate some information in return, which I understood to be our original deal. In other words - We tell you where we are. You tell us where you are. .....as best as can be identified from our current understanding of our environment. We promise to keep the information confidential.

The people of Vox Controli feel that we have much in common with the people of Spain. A love of life, a love of the land, a love of the sea, the squid thing - well, we still have much in common.

In conclusion - it would be good for our explorers to meet. The brave warriors of the One Voice have the honor in Voxian society of opening up the land. The first warrior you will meet - his name is Wandering Willy - a hero to the people of the One Voice. In answer to your questions - Willy can see the sea. (His sister Sally sells sea-shells by the sea-shore.) He is heading south. He has been on a long journey - so if you meet him - a mug of beer would be greatly welcome. Do not be put off by his tough appearance - Willy is a fine and sensitive human being - as is typical of our people.

Given that the topic of Willy and Warriors has come up, I could not resist the temptation to leaf through the one book, and share with you one of my favorite sectons. It is from the Book of Warriors.

Warriors I, Verses 1 to 6.

1. And so it came to be that the people of Vox Controli founded the capitol, "The Voice".

2. And the Voice begat warriors.

3. The Voice begat Willy. The Voice begat Tim. The voice begat Thadeus.

4. And Willy went out of The Voice, and into the wilderness.

5. And the shadows receded, and light shone upon the land.

6. And the people of Vox Controli cried out in unison and joy.

Thus ends the reading.

Very uplifting, isn't it. I get a tingle everytime I read it. Makes me almost wish that I had taken up a different line of work. Sigh - the life of a bureaucrat - well you understand.

My dear sir, I must make my leave. I wish you well. I look forward to hearing from you regarding location. And may the One Voice grant good fortune to explorers of both our great nations as they strive to meet in an uncertain world.

Yours truly,
BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli

	21-12-2002 04:29									#39
	Put an end to popups!

This an excerpt from my response to Picahulu of Neu Demogyptica. The rest was similar to my response to Spain. Will be interesting to see what we get.

Note that I shared a bit of additional info - that we had said 'no' to GoW.

"We are on a landmass in the northern hemisphere, and to the east. I suspect the world is of archipelago type geography. There is much ocean around us. I suspect we are at the far, eastern end of the archipelago.

We expect you to keep this information confidential. Glory of War asked the same of us - and we declined. We are 'picky' about our friends, and would like to include the fine people of Neu Demogyptica among them.

So yes, we are eager to meet. We would also appreciate if you can be any more precise as to your location. By the center of the world - do you mean roughly on the equator, and with equal amount of 'map' to your east and west? What does your landmass look like? Do you too see much ocean around you? I am wondering if you have both a northern coast and a southern coast?

In return, we promise to keep the information confidential.

The people of Vox Controli feel that we have much in common with the people of Neu Demogyptica. A love of the land, a love of the sea, and a love of an orderly and prosperous life."

	21-12-2002 04:36									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

There are a few civs we have not heard from:

-Legoland
-Gathering Storm
-Lux Invicta

I will concoct some reason to write them again and thus stay in touch.

	21-12-2002 14:52									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: 3. The Voice begat Willy. The Voice begat Tim. The voice begat Thadeus.

Now they know we have three warriors.

	21-12-2002 19:25									#42
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yup. But they don't know that we have four.

I expect that most civs by now will have at least that many.

	21-12-2002 23:02									#43
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

maybe less info in the future

Jon Miller

	21-12-2002 23:26									#44
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Roger that, boss.

	23-12-2002 07:19									#45
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Picahulu's response (Neu Demogyptica):

Re: Our location in the world
Dear Betahound of Vox Controli,

thank you very much for quoting these exciting lines from the Book of Warriors. It is always a delight to learn more about your great civilizations history!

Let me also express my gratitude in the name of the people of Neu Demogyptica for giving us your trust and describing your exact location in the world. We think that your information will be a great help to both of our civilizations finding each other.

Of course we want to be more precise regarding our location. We are nearly on the equator, only a little bit north of it. There seems to be a vast jungle in the south and south-east of our capital, which is sourrounded by huge mountains. To the west we see some water but we don't know if its a great ocean or only some sort of lake. In the north and east we've found plains and grassland.
Regarding our degree of longitude, we are close to the center, a little east of it but the distance is very short.

We have a scout called Thor who is exploring the north. I will talk to him and ask him to travel to the east in order to reach the borders of Persia. And of course i will warn him of the outward appearance of Willy so we can be sure he won't be frightened :-)

Sincerly yours,
Picahulu, Chief Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica

	23-12-2002 07:28									#46
	Get a bigger avatar today!

So - who do you think we will meet first?

We have two civs heading north to meet us. Do you think we should ask ND if they have met Spain, or vice-versa? It may help with locating them.

And where are the others? - I have yet to hear anything back from Legoland or Lux Invicta. ManicStarSeed of Gathering Storm was chatty, but no locational stuff.

Do you think we should

1. try and exchange locational info with these three or

2. try and use our Spain and ND contact to see who they have met or

3. just sit tight on the FA fron and see who Willy meets.

Your views please?

	23-12-2002 11:48									#47
	Got spare money?

I don't think we'll meet ND by land. I have screen shots I will get them out.

I have a hunch we will meet Spain. There does seem to be jungle in the latest screen shot. They might be hostile with us, so let's hope we can find iron.

And I select option #3 for right now. When we make actual contact we may request any contact info they may have.

Last edited by Dis on 23-12-2002 at 13:06

	23-12-2002 19:12									#48
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dissident - and speaking of Spain - look what came in the mail (no - not a Christmas card ), but another letter from Nuclear Winter.

Here it is. Note the issue of trading mini-maps again. This may require a poll.

Minimaps
My friend Betahound,
Our tribe has sent our hordes of mighty warriors and explorers toward the north in hope to meet your nation, but the directives are a little vague. We have also given you the directives on how to meet our team on a previous PM, but whe believe it must not be easy to. It is a vast world we live in, but our wisemen have tought on a way to overcome this trouble.
The minimaps (the small maps on the left side of the screen) can be traded. The agreement we sugest is basically we show you ours if you show us yours.
It is obvious some may think such a purpose is one with mean intentions, so to prevent this it would be a good time to forge strong bonds of friendship amongst our nations. We sugest these directives:

Minimap Trade This one is pretty self explanatory

Most favored trading nation status By this we agree to offer you better deals than we´d offer to other nations and this also implies your nation offering us better deals than you´d give to others in trading maps in the future, in tech deals and in luxurie trades.
Pact of nonagression This deal states that both of our nations agree not to attack one another for a time of 50 turns. Of course, our nation would like to extend this deal later on.

Also, we would like to ask for a copy of the book of the Voxians, wich interested us quite a lot.

Looking forward to stablish great relations with the 2nd most roleplaying team
Nuclearis Winterius the II,
representant of the Great Dictatorship of Spain

	23-12-2002 19:58									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Reading his note again - and their non-aggression proposal - me thinks they may understand the Immortal threat.

	23-12-2002 23:00									#50
	Remove this text

and we still have turns to go before Iron Working. I really want to wait until Iron working to see where we stand. And finish exploring our continent. I know they are anxious to meet other nations. I don't blame them.

Also note in our response that trading will not be possible until we meet anyways. So note that we do hope to encounter them soon in our journey south.

	26-12-2002 22:20									#51
	Tired of ads?

Beta : Nuclear Winter says he sent you a Top Priority PM a while ago and that you didnt reply. He asked me to remind you about it.

	26-12-2002 23:47									#52
	Support Apolyton

Eli - I would like nothing better than to respond - but I need some directions from the team. I post the incoming letters in this thread to get response to the issues raised. See Nuclear Winter's letter above. Nuclear Winter raised three points for discussion:

1. Trade mini-maps. For this I ran a poll. It still reads 2 to 1. If I could get a third 'no' I would respond. I'm pretty sure that's where the concensus is - oops - and I forgot - poll is closed anyway so 'no' it is.

2. Favoured nation status for trading????

I say sure! We agree. I don't know what it means in game terms, other than what NW mentioned, but I can't see it hurting to go for it.

3. And the cruncher - non-agression pact - this could be tricky. They know we are the Persians, they know we will get Immortals in the near future. I think they want to buy time to get them past the Persian 'threat' period.

I also suspect they are south of us. So they may be our first and closest neighbours.

Now - again it means nothing in real game turns to agree. But if we do agree, and break it because we need/want territory, then Spain will probably spread it around that we can't be trusted. In this game - I'm not sure who you could trust, but do we want our reputation trashed early?

However, we have gotten off to a good start in our relations with Spain - we may want to cultivate that. Remember, they will be closer in techs to map making (and therefore galleys) than us, and we could use galleys to jump the straight east of The Voice. As discussed earlier, there is a luxury there.

So - again - I would love to respond - but I need some feedback. And especially some discussion on the non-agression thing. Pllllleeeaaassse! And thanks!

	26-12-2002 23:51									#53
	Full PM-box? Change here!

By the way - I still have had not heard anything back from Legoland, so on the 23rd I sent this note to another member of the team. As of yet, no response. Anybody know what's up with the Lego folks?

"Greetings esteemed Tiberius of Legoland.

I contacted your great civilization a couple of weeks back, and as of yet, have gotten no response. It may be that Jack_www to whom I sent the first correspondence, in fact did not receive it. Therefore I am contacting another member of Legoland regarding establishing a relationship on foreign affairs.

If you would be so kind as to let me know if your civilization received my first correspondence, and if there is a member of Legoland assigned to dealings with Vox Controli, it would be greatly appreciated.

With sincerity and thanks,

BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli"

	26-12-2002 23:54									#54
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Dissident and we still have turns to go before Iron Working. I really want to wait until Iron working to see where we stand. And finish exploring our continent. I know they are anxious to meet other nations. I don't blame them. Also note in our response that trading will not be possible until we meet anyways. So note that we do hope to encounter them soon in our journey south.

Follwing on my note above, I like the theme of Dissident's proposed response. We say all the nice things, but don't really trade anything. On the favoured nation status, I could probably stall and ask them to explain further - or better yet - when we meet, we can discuss this matter in detail.

But what about the non-aggression thing???

	27-12-2002 00:05									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

did we get the general whereabouts of where they are? I'm not convinced they are on our continent.

	27-12-2002 00:33									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Diss - you may be right. After all their talk all we have from them on location is this -

"our explorers can meet yours at the middle(a little to the east) of the world localization, just near the squidda minor constelation."

And his later comment that that they are trekking their way north thru jungle.

Time will tell who our neighbours are. In some respects, the longer we go without meeting anyone, the better.

	27-12-2002 08:10									#57
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't think they are far enough east. Spain may be a better shot. We are about to enter the jungle region which of course is near the equater. So if there is anyone on our continent I expect to see them soon.

	27-12-2002 11:11									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I too suggest stalling on the Non-Aggression Pact....what does this entail? Is it the same as a Rights of Passage Agreement? If it is not, what's the difference in them?...etc.

Concerning Most Favored Nation Trading Pact - I say why not? It will keep them on our "nice" side, and what harm can it do this early in the game?

Trading Mini Maps - Not at this juncture since we do not concider it to be "fair game play".....however, after our civilizations have met....trading maps would be a viable option and we can address that diplomatic arrangement after "first contact" has been made.

Well, for what it's worth, that's my two-cents worth.

	27-12-2002 21:23									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok - well it seems the concensus is building towards:

1. no - to minimap trading

2. sure, why not - to favoured nation trading status.

3. hmm - not sure - tell us more - to the non-agression pact stuff.

If anyone disagrees with this sort of respones - speak up soon.

And of course, they will NEVER get a copy of the One Book. As you know, there is only One Book. It resides in the palace. And no one may copy it.

But I will continue to share excerpts from it.

	27-12-2002 21:28									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Diss - by the way - Nuclear Winter is from Spain (ie Roleplay). I think they may be south from where we are.

The other locational info we got was from Neu Demogyptica. Looks like they are in the dead centre of the map. And dead may be the key word.

Pressured from a couple of sides - a civ willing to do an early rush. Eeeeks. Again - these are the reasons I like our start in this first human vs multi-human game - at least for most of us. The AI was quasi-predictable. Humans ain't.