27-12-2002 23:09									#61
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my bad. Too many names. Roleplay = Spain. Got it.

	28-12-2002 00:57									#62
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Have finally made contact with Legoland. They have logistical and availabilty issues they were dealing with. (hey, c'mon, there is only like 400 people on their team).

Anyways, our communications have been friendly. Odin is their FA contact for Vox. Will let you know when I hear anything of consequence from them.

	29-12-2002 06:41									#63
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My response to Nuclear Winter of Spain (RolePlay), follows, in two post.

Response from Vox C.
Dear Nuclear Winter.

Hello sir. And Happy Holidays to you and yours. I trust your Christmas Squid was most excellent.

I am writing to respond to your recent correspondence. My apoligies for the delay in getting back to you - but with the holidays and everything - well, I'm sure you understand. I have been authorized by the One Voice to respond to you as follows:

Regarding the trading of mini-maps - I regret to inform you that Vox Controli does not feel it is within the spirit and intent of the game to trade maps. I understand that your esteemed leader, Togas, has made an empassoned plea to the world at large for such an exchange. We feel that it is acceptable to exchange our understanding of where we are in the world verbally - as we have already done - but that the actual trading of maps will require both our civilizations to master that technology, and for us, or at least our representatives, to meet in person in the world.

To this end we are confident that we may meet soon. As previously discussed, Willy the Warrior is headed your way - as far as we can deduce. And you have indicated that you have an explorer headed our way. It can only be a matter of time before our two great nations meet - don't you think?

Regarding the question of favored nation status for trading, we of the One Voice think this to be an excellent proposal. We would like to reciprocate this honor, and when we are in a position to discuss trades, we will extend the same benefit to you. Together, we are stronger.

Now, regarding the matter of the non-agression pact - well, I will be honest with you - this has generated much debate within our civilization. Please keep this quiet, we of the One Voice are often, how shall I put it, not embarassed, but rather self-conscious about our own internal discussions. As you know, we like to speak with One Voice, as is our law and our custom, and yet occasionally the way of the One Voice and our underpinnings of a free and democratic nation grate on one another. This is one of those times. So, I will need to get back to you on this point - the debate continus at home.

Some questions have arisen as to the validity of such a pact in the first place. It may help our debarting process if we knew how you would see this pact working. Is it public to other civs? Does it supercede pacts made within the game? Is it more than just a pledge of friendship, or do you see it stronger than that? No doubt you must have discussed this amongst your people, so if you can share more information, it would be greatly appreciated.

And now to the last point. You have asked for a copy of the One Book. You may not fully appreciate the significance of your request; in fact, many of our leading clerics and scholars took your request as a grave insult. It was necessary to bring to their attention that you are infidels ... er.. poor choice of words .. shall we say un-informed regarding the teachings of the One Book. When this was explained to the clergy, they were somewaht appeased. In their life's work, it is difficult to conceive of different faiths and different understandings from that of the One Word. We, as men of the world, must bring that understanding to them, don't you think.

(end of part 1 of letter. Part 2 follows.)

	29-12-2002 06:42									#64
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Part 2
(part 2 of letter)

Perhaps I could best close this correspondence with another reading from the One Book, a reading which might help to explain our reluctance, nay, the impossibility of providing you with a copy. It comes near the end of Jon's letter to the Controllians..

Controllians 19, Verses 6 thru 10.

6. And to ensure that there will be One understanding of the One word, there will be One Book, and One Book, only.

7. And jon saw to it that the One Book was compiled, and bound, and would last for evermore.

8. And the One Book was placed on the One Altar in the Palace of The Voice.

9. And there the leader of Vox Controli, and the clerics, and the scholars, and the citizens, and the asses, could all consult the word of the One Voice.

10. And thou shalt make no graven images of the One Book. There will only ever be one. And it will reside here.

Thus ends the reading.

You can appreciate the discussion which ensued about even sharing excerpts with you, the fine people of Spain. The concensus - and I believe that some of the hard-liners amongst us would say too liberal an intepretation - was that sharing excerpts from the One Book was not violating the 10th verse. Many argued that in fact, sharing excerpts was very much in keeping with the intent of the One Voice and spreading its message. But alas, that is another reading. And I fear I may have already revealed too much of our internal discussions. After all we pride ourselves on our way of life - of speaking with One Voice.

Till next time my dear friend, Nuclear. Take care, and my most sincere regards to your leaders and citizens.

BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli

	29-12-2002 23:34									#65
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Very good Beta. I think you handled the diplomatic correspondance rather well!

	30-12-2002 01:50									#66
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Thanks Witt - I enjoyed writing it up. Had to keep jon's caution in mind about not giving away any information of significance. Almost slipped up (some comment about not having writing as a tech) but I do a double check on them now. If in doubt - I will ask the team's review first. Thanks again.

	30-12-2002 12:07									#67
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yes good work indeed.

Later on we don't want them to know if we have map making or not. This early it is safe for them to assume we don't have map making, so no big deal.

	31-12-2002 09:24									#68
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I like what is going on so far (oh, for when I am back to my computer and cable)

Jon Miller

	31-12-2002 22:58									#69
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Hi jon. Happy Holidays.

Guys, foreign affairs question - sort of. Does anybody have, or know where we can get, a list of the techs and how much their base research cost is?

There use to be a strategy thread called Science and the Four Turn Cap. But I can't find it anymore. And I can't recall whether it included the base costs or not.

I know that later techs cost more than earlier ones, and that the cost decreases as other civs acquire that tech - but there has to be some base cost to be able to compare say - iron working to construction to map making.

I was just thinking about this as we may face our first trading choices in the not too distant future.

	31-12-2002 23:36									#70
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Open the editor, go to the tech editing screen and you can find the costs there.

	01-01-2003 03:00									#71
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Eli - thanks!

I have compiled the ancient era tech costs and loaded them as an added table under the Science section in the Thread of Everything. For our future reference when discussing trades.

I have to admit - it was the first time I have seen the relative 'value' of the techs. I had some idea, but this was interesting.

(just ANOTHER reason I'm glad I joined the ptw-demo game ... )

	01-01-2003 03:13									#72
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Continuing on this theme of techs, it was interesting to see what each of the civs started with in terms of total 'value' (ie beeker costs) of tech advances.

GS - Egypt - Masonry and C.Burial - total 60
Neu Demo - Arabia - Pottery and C.Burial - total 40
Glory - China - Warrior Code and Bronze W - total 60
RP- Spain - Alphabet and C.Burial - total 70
Vox -Persia - Masonry and Bronze W - total 70
Lux - Ottomans - Bronze W and Masonry - total 70
Lego - Carthage - Masonry and Alphabet - total 90

Never thought of this in terms of a civ's starting advantage, but there it is.

	01-01-2003 03:49									#73
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OK GS starts with Masonry and C. Burial. We already have C. Burial, we can get Masonry, but we'd have to trade Bronze working for it.

We can assume they have 1 more tech as well as we have. Being egypt they probably went for the wheel.

	01-01-2003 04:03									#74
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Well - from Diss' note above and the moves thread you will have the gist of it. One point though - we started with masonry as well.

So - I think our initial chat should go something along the lines of - well hello dear friends - and we know you started with C.Burial and Masonry - anything else you would care to trade? (they may have traded with another civ and/or gotten their own goody hut tech).

Or do you think we should put bronze working on the table and see what they offer up?

What about asking for contact with other civs?

And, should we consider sharing the fact that we have met GS with either RP/Spain or Neu Demogyptica? Haven't considered the pros and cons of this.

Just putting the questions on the table.

	01-01-2003 07:39									#75
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We could trade Bronze working for the wheel. I'm not real keen on trading war techs, but this would lead us closer to horse riding if we need it (as a back up if we can't get any iron).

	01-01-2003 10:13									#76
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But we're not sure they have the wheel either. But in principal, I agree.

I am confident there will be iron somewhere in these hills.

(hey - my first post of 2003)

Happy New Year Vox C.

	01-01-2003 15:09									#77
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I think that we should have Beta talk to them before we talk in game


JJon Miller

	01-01-2003 21:37									#78
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OK - so what do we say?

I'll make nice, and then ask if they have any trading they want to do? I'll also ask if they have made contact with other civs, although I doubt they will tell us or trade that contact.

	01-01-2003 23:00									#79
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Eli - I have update the Thread of Everything with the FA info. I reorganized the civs in the order they play in the game. It helps me find info that much quicker. We may want to do that with the other section(s) as well.

I have included dates of contacts, and a short blurb on the discussion. I have also added in a category for who the FA contact with each civ is.

Anybody have anything else they want to see in there?

signed - beta, VFA, Vox C.

	01-01-2003 23:10									#80
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What? How did you do that?!

You can't edit other people's posts!

	01-01-2003 23:10									#81
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Holy crap! Apparently you can!

Last edited by Beta on 01-01-2003 at 23:21

	01-01-2003 23:12									#82
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And you forgot to change the "update year" field. The first in every post.

d

	01-01-2003 23:14									#83
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why can you edit other people's posts? That is only for the team forums I assume. Then again, maybe not.

	01-01-2003 23:14									#84
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Well gosh-darn.

Updating ...

	01-01-2003 23:15									#85
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I posted a thread in the Community forum... It should be fixed soon.

	01-01-2003 23:20									#86
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OK help me out here. I thought this is what we would want with the THread of Everything. I was able to make a change in it about a week ago as well when I made a small update just to see how the edit function works. I presume that is why you set it up like that - if you are the only one who can edit it - it will be real pain for you to have to transcribe everyhing.

	01-01-2003 23:25									#87
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Ok - my 60 seconds of research indicates you can edit others' posts here in our forum (I added an eek smiley to your post above Eli) but not in the open forums.

	01-01-2003 23:25									#88
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Well, normally only the user who made the post can edit it. So it's a nuisance we have to live with.

	01-01-2003 23:27									#89
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Not really. It won't be a problem amongst the team members - no reason other than Thread of Everything updates to do it.

	01-01-2003 23:30									#90
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound OK - so what do we say? I'll make nice, and then ask if they have any trading they want to do? I'll also ask if they have made contact with other civs, although I doubt they will tell us or trade that contact.

OK Eli and Diss - since you are around - are you in agreement with the suggested reply. We should get it out today.