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Jon Miller
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we could move up one warrior, and keep the other down (move it up to the mountains just north of it)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Wittlich
Jon - Concerning your last post, are you talking about our meeting with Lux, or are you referring to the isthmus? |
the isthmus
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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yah, we should pull back now
Jon miller
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:24
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Proposed response to Lux. Please comment or approve.
Greetings Calc II of Lux Invicta.
I am BetaHound of Vox Controli, the Voice of Foreign Afairs for my civilization. It was very good to hear from you - and yes - I can hear you just fine. It is a good thing that it is not too windy today. We too thought it a good omen to meet another Latin-named civ. Maybe there is more to this culturally-linked stuff than we know, eh.
To business. I have taken your proposal to The Controller and the Vox Senate. We are a compact civilization, and do not dilly dally on responses.
I have been directed to tell you that we are very interested in a technology trading arrangement. As we stated earlier in our bottle message, this would be a wonderful method to advance the knowledge of both our civilizations. We are on separate continents. I can see no reason why we would not want to work together to make both Lux and Vox technology leaders in this world.
To that end, I am authorized to say that we would like to offer knowledge of ceremonial burial in return for your knowledge of pottery. It allows you to honor your citizens as they pass into the next world, and may inspire you to build temples to remember their lives and their deaths. We have found our civilization, shall we say, spiritually enlightened, as a result of ceremonial burial.
We would also like to propose that we discuss extension of a more comprehensive tech reserach and trading arrangement. To this end, I am authorized to tell you that our scientists are well on their way to revealling the secrets of iron working. Perhaps you are on a similar path. Perhaps not. But if you see my point, we could effectively double our research immediately under such an arrangement. Lux would research one path - Vox another - and then when both are finished, we would trade.
I'm also sure that such an arrangement, and the trust that it would engender between our two civilizations, would soon carry over to trade and diplomatic alliances. I am sure that friendship, and all the mutual benefits it entails, will carry both of us far in this uncertain world.
Well, my dear Calc, I ramble. You should see what my poor colleagues back home have to put up with from me.
So, a simple response on the pottery for ceremonial trade will suffice, and then we can do the deal. If you are in agreement, whoever has the next move should put it on the table.
If you need more time to consider revealing your research path, and our offer for a future arrangement, please take your time. We are a patient people. And I can see where this may require discussion.
Please call whenever you would like to talk. Given our latin heritages, perhaps I should end this note with a phrase to honour this historic meeting and our first trade. (and my apologies for my poor latin).
Veni. Vidi. Visa.
(We came. We saw. We did business.)
Here's to more business in the future. May health and prosperity go with you and your people.
In Friendship,
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
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Jon Miller
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no to 3 (we want them not ot know our size, wy don't you connect it to the Lux continent, if you want to describe)
1b
for the techs, detail that we can get our hands on pottery, if they would like to trade for that more
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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it is a little informative, but go for it I say (in response to proposed letter to Lux)
Jon Miller
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:24
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Here is the proposed response to GS. I wrote it and posted it before seeing Jon's earlier comments. Please let me know.
ManicStarSeed and Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm.
After much deliberation - some would say too much - the wise Controller of Vox Controli - has reached a decision on many of the issues before us. I appreciate the blanket of tension that our indecision has cast over Estonia. Believe me, it has not been pleasant on the home front either. I would say you could cut the tension with a knife, but that by itself sounds aggressive. Which brings me to the response I have been authorized to relay to you, and the leaders of Gathering Storm.
I am pleased to say that the collective wisdom of Vox sees the benefits of peaceful co-existance. I will be honest with you - I was not unaware of the problems and threat being posed by our warriors southern trek. Particularly given our entrenched position on the isthmus.
Our two explorers in the south have been ordered to halt all southern movement, and to pull-back to the mountains to their north. We have called these mountains the Sierra Centralis.
We have no desire, nor as many at home have suggested, any right, to expand or explore into your territory. We fully acknowledge your present territorial rights, as well as the right to future expansion. It is understood that we will need to further discuss this matter, given that at some time in the future, the borders of our civilizations will be nearer than they are now.
We, however, claim our territorial right to the isthmus. Both you and we appreciate its significance. But more importantly to us, it is a planned city site. And in the near future. Therefore, we would not want your warrior to be trapped in North Estonia, with no way out. Nor do we want him to wander into our territory. We have stated that we will not explore or approach your lands, so with all due respect, we feel that this should apply to you as well. The problem is that as soon as he was through the isthmus, he would be in Vox territory.
So, we will try another alternative, and in good faith, provide the information in another way. In the absence of the ability to share detailed territory maps, I will describe North Estonia for you. I will use a measurement which you may be familiar with - if not we have attached detailed specifications to assist you.
North Estonia is not a big landmass. It is some six tiles north to south and four tiles from east to west. It is more than half covered by plains, with a small desert. There are numerous hills and mountains. Unfortunately there are no rivers. As previously discussed, there are luxury resources available to us. We have two cities in North Estonia - our capitol - The Voice, and a nearby and newer city called Miller town - named after the Head of the Senate, jon miller, who I mentioned in my last letter.
I trust this helps your cartographers, and we sincerely hope you understand our position regarding the isthmus. Given that we have 'gone out on a limb' so to speak, in provideing this information, combined with the fact that we have stopped our southward exploration, it would be seen as a sign of good faith if you could provide a similar description of your end of the continent.
More importantly, given our commitment to stopping all southerly exploration, and pulling our explorers back, it would be greatly appreciated if Gathering Storm could do the same. The Sierra Centralis seems to be both a convenient and fair geographical divide. We are not saying that it has to be the final demarcation line between our civilizations, just the agreed-upon line to which we both withdraw our explorers. As I acknowledge above, further discussion regarding a more permanent border is required.
And I will once more express Vox Controli's stance of non-aggression. It is clear from both our words and our actions of this day that we are committed to peaceful relations with Gathering Storm.
The other issue on the table before us is the issue of trade of technologies. Alas, we got through the one discussion, but not the other. As I write this, there is both serious debate, and serious polling taking place within Vox. We will not take much longer - I can ensure you. But I felt it best that we resolve these other matters of territory as soon as possible, and not wait for a decision on technology trading. I will get back to you shortly on your recent proposals.
It has been an exhausting week of internal and external discussions, I must admit. I, BetaHound, could sleep like a dog, if indeed, I had the time. Alas my dear sirs, the debate at home, and other foreign affairs matters beckon me.
I believe we are laying down an historic foundation of friendship with these early discussions. It has had its tensions, but we are both youthful civilizations, and I guess that is to be expected. I am optimistic about our future and the potential of peaceful co-existance on Estonia.
I wish you well, dear sirs, and look forward to your response.
Sincerely yours,
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:24
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Ok.
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:24
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Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I must emphasize that this message is from me personally as chief economist and sometimes de facto ambassador, not from all of Gathering Storm. Time is short, and I feel that I must act quickly (and somewhat independently) if I am to prevent an opportunity from slipping past. I can only hope that it is not already too late.
The thaw you have just brought in the tensions between our lands is very welcome indeed. But the tensions have already done significant damage to our trade proposal. When you seemingly rejected our trade proposal (even casting doubt on whether what we had to offer was possible), and also kept advancing Tim and Willy and brought in a worker to further block Grog's movement, that gave the militarists the upper hand in guiding our research. As a result, we started on Bronze Working instead of on Alphabet, which greatly complicates efforts to keep our trade proposal alive.
Nonetheless, I continue to regard it as foolish for us to duplicate research efforts when we have opportunities to follow separate paths and exchange our results. I am therefore requesting a brief halt in our research on Bronze Working (and I am not sure even a brief one will be acceptable to our other leaders; certainly anything more will not be) to provide a small amount of additional time to perhaps keep our offer alive. I can understand your need to discuss matters, but whatever window of opportunity might still be open will not remain open for long - at least not regarding this particular proposal.
In regard to your comments on pottery, our people are already making good use of such knowledge. I am having my messenger bring you a few small samples that may aid your research in some small way. We had thought that we might offer to trade you Pottery and The Wheel for Iron Working (if you have that knowledge) after we finished Bronze Working, but if you are very far along in your research, that too may be an opportunity lost due to tensions and poor communication.
In any case, I welcome this new era in our relationship and hope for a long and prosperous friendship between our peoples.
Sincerely,
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:24
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Diss - I know what you mean. It has been a busy 24hrs. Sorry about the quick turnaround time on the letters guys. I got some quick feed-back from jon, and was able to stall somewhat on the trade with GS issue, but thought timeliness was key on both issues, so I sent them both out last evening.
Couple of key points.
As jon has noted, we put more info on the tabel with Lux. I am trying, both through the substance of the letters, as well as the tone, to try and develop a strong relationship with Lux. It would appear to be in our best interest for all the reasons discussed earlier. If anyone has any reservations, please let me know.
Regarding GS, I will draw up a quick trade letter now. Will be ready by noon. But in the meantime, yes, if we are playng the turn, as Diss has suggested, put the bronze working on the table.
Also regarding GS, I suggested the mountains as the warrior pull back line for a couple of reasons. Despite all my verbage saying otherwise, I want to get across the idea that the mountains are the dividing line. That's also why I called them Sierra Centralis - to imply that they are the centre and therefore the dividing line. Now, they may well see right through it all.
My move suggestion would be to move the warrior on the west coast one tile to the east - to the second mountain in - he should be able to keep an eye on comings and goings from there. And the one on the east coast to move back to the mountain he just came from. The two of them should make good look-outs from those positions.
It will also be clear fairly soon if GS agrees based on what they do with their warriors, and whether or not they pull back as well.
The other point is that I tried to 'under-sell' the land we already have. This was for two reasons - to make it less attractive to them - and to legitimize our claim to a good portion of the land south of the isthmus. Remember - we have no idea of how much land is beyond the city outline we saw recently, so we are guessing as to what should be ours and what should be theirs, as are they.
And I would really like to know about that wheel research thing. I recall that you could get it from a goody hut as well.
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:24
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And this just in -
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I have just barely managed to persuade Gathering Storm to delay our research for a single turn in order to keep our original trade proposal open. Note that for the deal to work, you must agree to both phases, The Wheel for Bronze Working and then Alphabet (once we get it) for Iron Working (and we need a message to that effect). Otherwise, the values of the research involved do not balance (if the Mystic Editor is to be believed). And even at equal values, we would be eating a loss of a turn's research into Bronze Working.
If you prefer some other arrangement, there are two other possibilities that occur to us. If your research on Pottery is only barely started, we could exchange Pottery and perhaps a small amount of gold for Bronze Working. Or we could continue our research into Bronze Working and then exchange Pottery and The Wheel for Iron Working (assuming you have that knowledge), allowing you to shift your efforts from Pottery to something else. Or if you have any other reasonable proposal, we would be interested to hear it.
Again, I must emphasize that any arrangement involving your trading Bronze Working to us must be finalized by the time we submit our next turn. Otherwise, we will have to resume our research and a trade will no longer seem worthwhile. I apologize for the pressure this places on your leaders, but you should feel the pressure I find myself facing just for requesting this delay!
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:24
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edit: wrong game
Last edited by Dis on 10-01-2003 at 23:14
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09-01-2003 05:16
. I just had to see gangs of new york- so I did that. Great flick.
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