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Leonidas
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*Double Post*
Last edited by Leonidas on 01-12-2003 at 22:35
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Leonidas
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More German halftrack variants.
(Anybody getting tired of these yet? Hehe)
This is the SdKfz 251-9 Schwerer Kanonenzug (7.5cm Short Assault Gun):
.gif)
Last edited by Leonidas on 04-12-2003 at 22:04
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Case
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The backlash starts here
Feb 2000
time: 15:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonidas
BTW, I think it would be kinda cool to have a WWII scenario playable only as Germany, and which has multiple events and unit files, to show the historical military production of Germany throughout the war.
Germany started to rely more and more on the StuG variants, Hetzers, and halftrack variants to fight many late war battles. |
It should be noted that the only reason those AFVs were produced in such large numbers was because they were quicker and cheaper to produce then turreted tanks. The Germans were fully aware that they weren't as effective as 'proper' tanks, but chose to produce them as an emergancy measure to compete with the vast number of tanks flowing from Soviet and Allied factories.
In addition, assault gun production appears to have been assisted by inter-branch struggles within the German Army - the assault guns were manned by the Artillery branch, who fought tooth and nail for lots of assault guns, aparently because serving in them was the only way artillerymen could win the highest medals!  [so much for the myth of the ruthlessly sensible and efficant German Army!].
So basically, you'd want to be careful that in a scenario you don't shoehorn players into using too many of what were inferior AFVs.
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Case
It should be noted that the only reason those AFVs were produced in such large numbers was because they were quicker and cheaper to produce then turreted tanks. The Germans were fully aware that they weren't as effective as 'proper' tanks, but chose to produce them as an emergancy measure to compete with the vast number of tanks flowing from Soviet and Allied factories.
In addition, assault gun production appears to have been assisted by inter-branch struggles within the German Army - the assault guns were manned by the Artillery branch, who fought tooth and nail for lots of assault guns, aparently because serving in them was the only way artillerymen could win the highest medals! [so much for the myth of the ruthlessly sensible and efficant German Army!].
So basically, you'd want to be careful that in a scenario you don't shoehorn players into using too many of what were inferior AFVs. |
Case:
Great info 
Although, the German halftracks were actually quite complex and expensive to produce (in comparison to US HT, but less expensive than tanks). Apparently the working gear systems were mind-boggling in their intricate design.
You are right, I wouldn't want to shoehorn players. But it would be interesting to follow historical lines of research for a Germany-only scenario. If Tigers were no longer produced by July, 1944, then I think it would be interesting to have Tiger production stop during that period.
To make up this shortfall, and as an option for expensive Panthers and other tanks, the player could rely on Anti-tanks such as the 88mm, Hetzers, StuGs, halftracks, etc.
Panthers and other tanks would still be available (they would be expensive). However, as an alternative, the player would have a variety of less expensive, but still useful, alternatives. For example, do you produce one Panther tank or three 88mm ATGs? Or three Pz Grenadier halftracks?
There would a trade-off - much like the situation Germany experienced during WWII.
It might prove to be an interesting scenario.
Don't mind me, it's just that the wargamer in me comes out once and a while 
Cheers!
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by fairline
The Germans stopped making the Tiger VIE in August '44 because the Tiger VIB had been in production since February; it remained in production until March '45, although in inadequate numbers to anything like stem the flow of Shermans and T34s. |
Hi
Yes, the Tiger VIE stopped production in August'44, while delivers of the tank ceasd in June'44.
You are probably referring to the King Tiger as the next version.
The Tiger VIE was followed by the Tiger II Ausf B or King Tiger tank (a much more powerful tank). I believe only about 485 were built.
Production of the King Tiger commenced at Kassel in December, 1943. It first saw action in May, 1944.
IMO, the King Tiger was another example of Hitler thinking bigger is better, while whittling away scarce resources.
The Germans would have been far better off producing lots of Pz IVJs, Hetzers and StuG variants, to help match the armour rolling off the Soviet and American assembly lines.
Cheers!
Last edited by Leonidas on 05-12-2003 at 11:23
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by fairline
We were both wrong. Production started January '44 -Henschel were still changing the turret in December 43. It was issued to training units in Feb - May '44 and first saw combat in June '44.
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Hi
It probably depends on the type of source you use for information.
According to my sources, the information is not wrong.
My source for this information is the authoritative hardcover edition of Bishop's [Editor] "Complete Encyclopedia of Weapons of WWII".
On page 16, he states that production of the King Tiger tank began in Kassel in December 1943 alongside the regular Tiger tank. The first 50 King Tigers were completed with the Porsche turret.
All subsequent King Tigers had the Henschel turret, and a total of 485 tanks were built.
He further goes on to state that the King Tiger first saw action in May, 1944, on the Eastern Front, and in August, 1944 on the Western Front.
Further:
In a book by Drs Hart and Hart called "German Tanks of WWII", they state that the first production models of the King Tiger were delivered in January, 1944 (since production had started in December, 1943 using the Porsche turret) (page 135).
It's easy enough to be mistaken about, since any number of authors can overlook a date or two or miss something by a month.
Geekiness lives!
Last edited by Leonidas on 05-12-2003 at 22:38
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Eivind IV
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History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
Aug 2002
time: 06:16
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When Eivind is bored, he makes units 
A brand new Panther F!
 Attachment: panther_eivind.gif
This has been downloaded 175 time(s).
Last edited by Eivind IV on 07-12-2003 at 06:38
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Eivind IV
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History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
Aug 2002
time: 06:16
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...And the Jagdpanther 
EDIT: updated with texture
Attachment: eivind_jagdpanzer.gif
This has been downloaded 157 time(s).
Last edited by Eivind IV on 07-12-2003 at 07:25
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01-12-2003 06:08
.gif)
What criteria are you using here? The American TDs knocked up a fairly good reputation, with the M-36 and M-18 both being highly popular with their crews.
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