14-01-2003 08:21									#31
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My response:

Greetings Nathan - esteemed shuffler of stones. (hint - call it an abacus, tell them its mathematics, and they will think you're a genius.)

Thank-you for your note of clarification. Indeed, there was confusion at our end. In much the same way as when our warriors were heading south I had a difficult time turning them around, it would now appear that they are heading north with the same singularity of intent. The internal camel network is still under development. Sigh...

But we were in agreement as to look-out positions for Warrior Willy and Warrior Tim. Something got lost in the translation with the language of the keys at our end. They will be moving to take up the agreed upon positions shortly.

I trust Thud has made himself comfortable. With a new city going up shortly, he will be able to avail himself of the luxuries of suburban fast-food markets.

I appreciate the confirmation of the confidentiality pack. With all the paper-work these days, well it gets a bit overwhelming for one such as myself. I need to revisit your other recent letters to see if there is anything outstanding. But with the earlier tensions relieved we can do this at our leisure.

Once again - thank-you for your note. I will be talking to you shortly. Regards. ... BetaHound, VFA, Vox C.

- by the way - I should open up the One Book in the next day or two ... maybe something from the Book of Eli.

	14-01-2003 09:55									#32
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Beta, I recieved a PM from Calc:

quote: BetaHound need to clear his PM box. Just wanted to tell you that your ambassador, beteahound cannot recieve my pm,s due to his inbox being full __________________

So clean-up your house dude!

	14-01-2003 13:04									#33
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yeah I also noticed that thing about them sharing the same god. I thought it was strange, but I'm still not sure if they have any "official" contact. How could they? Unless the continent is connected below...

	14-01-2003 13:06									#34
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Your ambassador, BetaHound has a full pm box. Please remind him to clear out his box frequently so we can keep the contact between two civ to flow.

in addition, I'll send you the message I wanted to send to BetaHound. I have take over for Apoc for awhile, so I am the official Vox ambassador for now.

////
Thanks for the letter Beta, I believe it is time for us to fully reveal our technological advancement to you. I have just recently been authorized to do so. In addition, I am very happy that Vox has shared some of their own information. Unfortunately, it seems like your civilization does not have anything to offer to us technology wise. Do not worry, we may still work out a trade.

Our advancements are as follows:
Mansonry, Bronze working

We have found: pottery, ceremonial burial, warrior code, wheel.

As you can see, we have alot to offer you. We have no desire to withhold any strategically valuable tech to you, since we feel very safe with the people of Vox. Our natural boundaries provide little to dispute over and our common heritage of being latin-decent as well as common love for science makes Vox one of our favorite. If we can cooperate in tech buddying, it would be to your best interest since we have so much to offer you as of now. Please take serious consideration in planning mysticism as your next technological project. I would also like to hear what you guys want to work out for us recieving mysticism as soon as you guys discover it. We are open to suggestions, and we are very lenient right now, so please take advantage and accept this proposal.

I wish to hear from you again.

Calc

	14-01-2003 15:01									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I am unbanned

Jon Miller

	14-01-2003 17:19									#36
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Hi - welcome back jon.

I cleaned up my inbox last night. THere has been a lot of stuff lately.

I'm OK woth mysticism, but it does mean that yhey have pottery and warrior code whic we do not have. How about they offer us pottery as a show of god faith - we will throw in a bit of gold - and we will make it back up to them in future dealings. Sort of like a beeker debit/credit arrangement.

Can't check here again until later this evening. On a course today.

	14-01-2003 18:41									#37
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Good idea Beta...but I wonder if they would be that lenient.

	14-01-2003 20:15									#38
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Oh, and welcome back Jon!

	14-01-2003 23:08									#39
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those are cheap techs. We do have the gold to at least get one of them. Say 40 to 50 gold for a tech. I'm not sure if that is the going rate. That is what I sometimes pay.

	15-01-2003 03:28									#40
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I see it as sort of a good-will trade. Let's suggest and see what happens.

	15-01-2003 04:28									#41
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40-50 gold is more than the tech costs...

	17-01-2003 04:58									#42
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I think we should accept this even though we lost all our research. But really we aren't losing anything. We are gaining 8 turns in research by doing this.

Greetings my friends from the other side of the sea.

We have a proposition regarding technology that we would like to see your opinion on. We have offered Iron Working to you this turn in hopes of advancing both of our civilizations. You researching a tech we already have helps neither of us. Therefore, we offer Iron Working to you now in exchange for Mysticism, which we wish you to research next. This will allow us to move ahead of those that might harm us technologically, and not waste resources on the same efforts.
To finish this deal, simply set it so that the deal is acceptable, then return it, and we shall do the same on the turn that directly follows. In this way, we give you the gift of Iron Working now for Mysticism when you have completed it.

Myself, and my fellow humble Luxians await your reply.

Yours,
Trip, Administrator Lux Invicta Demo Game

	17-01-2003 05:10									#43
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Diss - I heartily agree with your assessment. Drafting the letter right here. Next post,

	17-01-2003 05:30									#44
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Proposed letter - let me know what you think. Particulary about the gold for pottery. Diss - can you do quick calculation. Thx.

Trip and CalcII of Lux Invicta

Greetings dear sirs. Regarding your recent proposals, we cannot deny the clear logic of your proposal. Therefore, I have been authorized to agree wholeheartedly with the proposed arrangement. Upon receipt of iron working, we will switch immediately to Mysticism, and upon its completion, we will forward immediately to Lux.

We have one other request which we as k you to consider. We currently lack pottery - as you know. We would normally be tempted to research it next - given its 'reduced' research cost in the world today. But as you have pointed out, in the big picture of our tech trading arrangement, this would not be the best use of resources. We have no technology to trade which you do not have. However, there is good will, and there is gold. In exchange for pottery - we will pay 40 gold - 20 now, and 2 per turn for the next 20 turns. (or 30 now) (or 25).(what do you think)(can we figure out how many gold it is actually worth now from the F1 screen and the turns to research on F6). In addition, we would readily acknowledge a debt of good will to you. Between many nations of the world, this may not amount to us. Between honorable nations such as ourselves, you can count on us honoring the debt.

Please let me know if such an arrangement would be acceptable to you.

I trust all is well with you and the people of Lux Invicta. The leadership ranks of Vox continue to lessen in numbers. Our esteemed Senator Eli will not be able to be present for the next while. But the core of committed and active senators remain. And of course, there is always the Controller - both committed and wise.

With regards and sincerity,

BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli

	17-01-2003 06:27									#45
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not sure how you check the cost. let me check.

	17-01-2003 06:48									#46
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Diss - from F1 you will get some idea of the wealth we are generating per turn - but more importantly how much goes to research if you adjust the slider. So, move the slider to a set point. If we are putting x gold to research and it would take us y turns to research pottery - the math gives us a figure we can use to say whetehr 25 gold, or 40 gold, or 100 gold would be a reasonable figure. Skywalker posted earlier that he thugt 40-50 gold was too much. I'm not sure. Hence the question. I would like to get the request in now, as we have a small bit of leverage.

	17-01-2003 07:09									#47
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Ok I have some numbers. I haven't crunched them yet.

With 20@ science we have 2 going to science per turn

Alphabet: 40
Iron Working: 40
Mysticism: 40
Pottery: 19
Warrior Code: 32

with 100% science we have 7 trade arrows going to science per turn

Iron Working: 21
Alphabet: 18
Pottery: 6
Warrior: 10
mysticism: 14

That makes pottery 47.5% the value of Iron Working at 20%science rate
and 28.5% the value of Iron Working at 100% science rate

	17-01-2003 07:17									#48
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so it looks like pottery will vary between 38 and 42 trade arrows.

So 35 to 40 seems like a good offer for Pottery.

	17-01-2003 07:25									#49
	Got spare money?

put that reasoning into our request

Jon Miller

	17-01-2003 07:26									#50
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OK. Great Diss. Thanks. I appreciate that. I guess I will start with 15 gold and 1 per turn. That totals 35. In the ball park - and doesn't run the traesury down much now.

	17-01-2003 07:37									#51
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Great news! It would be even greater if we can purchase pottery also...

Along with us trying to exand, we can't forget about our military might - When GS realizes that we have no intention of trading Iron working for Alphabet...they are going to be pissed!

	17-01-2003 07:47									#52
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we won't tell them we have Iron Working just yet...

	17-01-2003 07:57									#53
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OK - I offered 30 - 10 now and 1 per turn, plus of course, the research arrangement - which is just great for us. One of the real plusses of getting iron work early is we can see where the resouces are - fingers crossed guys.

The response is as per the above, except for 10 now and 1 per turn.

	17-01-2003 07:59									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident we won't tell them we have Iron Working just yet...

I agree Diss. We will wait until they can put Alphabet on the table - and even then .....

	17-01-2003 07:59									#55
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OK I accepted. If they accept their turn we should get it next turn and shall see... *fingers crossed*

remember they cannot see what we have. So they do not know when we get it.

	17-01-2003 08:23									#56
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Yes - fingers crossed. This relationship with Lux looks promising.

I would even like to look into the idea of co-opting their assistance for a little war down the road. Soon as they have galleys and can get troops to our continent, we could use their help in asserting ourselves in Estonia. We could then help them do likewise.

After that - well - that's a long way down the road.

	17-01-2003 18:46									#57
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Great news!!! Lux is on side. Diss or Jon - not sure what went on the table last turn, I presume we got iron working. Can you put the 10 gold and 1 gold per turn on the table as well. And then we should get pottery. That only leaves warrior code and alphabet as the first tier techs we don't have.

One thing they have not told us is what they are working on. I will subtly inquire.


Re: Research Agreement
My reply comes too late, for trip has authorized the trade already in game. But basically I did wanted to say that your requests are more than welcomed. Trip should have provided pottery and our alchemists should be providing the missing formula which your alchemists should understand by now.

Yay for Lux Invicta, Yay for Vox Controli!~

Unless there is another issue that needs to be worked out, I will see you when mysticism is understood. Then we can plan another joint cooperation based on the situation presented then.

Lets keep this mutual relationship going!

Calc II

	17-01-2003 19:08									#58
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Fantastic!

	17-01-2003 23:04									#59
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What did you offer so we know exactly what to put on the table?

Was it 15 gold up front and 1 per turn for 20 turns?

	18-01-2003 03:48									#60
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound OK - I offered 30 - 10 now and 1 per turn, plus of course, the research arrangement - which is just great for us. One of the real plusses of getting iron work early is we can see where the resouces are - fingers crossed guys. The response is as per the above, except for 10 now and 1 per turn.

10 gold now - and 1 per turn for 20 turns. They said OK..