18-01-2003 06:17									#61
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Had a long chat with Calc/NovaMonkey on mIRC. Here is the scoop. Oh man - Gotta go. Will post again in a bit.

	18-01-2003 06:59									#62
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You're such the tease Beta!!!

	18-01-2003 08:38									#63
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Sorry Witt. Dinner was going. My wife was getting restless - and we wanted to get the stir fry done before John Doe came on. You gotta see how it is.

Anyways, to Lux and my extra-curricular FA activities. Well, first off, he wanted confirmation about the deal. Which - at the time I couldn't give him - it was just Calc at this point - because Diss was still playing the turn. Later I could and it was smiles all round. Although when you look at it - it was pretty one-sided for us.

We talked a fair bit about our early game experiences. They are neighbours with New Demogyptica. I guess they got off to a rocky start - something about a settler and warrior in what they saw as their territory - and an agreement reached - and then Neu reneged, it wasn't very clear. What is clear is that they do not like them , do not consider them friends, and think they are way too slow and bureaucratic. That was one thing that impressed them about vox. We were quick and to the point.

They do not trade techs with them, Neu D., - or so they said.

They have minimal luxuries, similar to us. We know their techs. They are thinking about mathematics next.

I shared that we are neighbours with GS. And described our early game tensions. We talked a lot about team make up and dynamics. It seems Trip, Calc, and WarriorPoet are the folks running Lux. Trip clearly calls the shots.

They are very keen on their relationship with us. I chatted first with Calc, for about 45 minutes and then with Calc and Trip for about an hour. I got a similar feel from both conversations, so they are either sincere (which I believe is the case) or it was very well stage managed between two separate mIRC chats, one with Trip, and one without.

I explained our geography and that we felt reasonably secure. I did not give away our possible offensive operations in the future. They did not say much about their geography, or if they knew who, if anybody, is beyond Neu D. We are agreed on the no mini-map trading principle, and playing 'within the game'. They go a notch up in my books for that.

I explained our concentration on road building, at the expense of tile improvement and hence gold and hence research rate. I mentioned the 24 turn timeline for Mysticism. They understood.

I did however, broach the idea of helping each other out militarily. They sounded interested. And agreed that it had merit. They thoght that given the limited size of our continent, that GS would likely be pressuring us. This obviously has to wait until galleys.

We talked a lot about the game in general, how it differs from a SP game, the demo game, the intersite game, etc.

All in all, very friendly. I really got a sense of animosity between them and Neu - or it was a very good show. I also said I would be available for such chats in the future.

That's it. Any questions?

	18-01-2003 08:48									#64
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if oyu feel that you can form a good bond with them that is up to you (I would not have felt at liberty to get so close to them, but than I am not the FA official)

it sounds as if we are going to make them allies, that would be good I think

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 09:13									#65
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I was thinking that as the chat developed jon. But I got a good sense about it - so as they opened up (presumably honestly, and that was my guess) I reciprocated.

And yes - I clearly get the feeling that they want to solidify this relationship.

If they are in communication with GS - I did not give away anything that GS does not know - or which Lux would not know by our by our dealings. ie Iron working, or our contact with Lux. I clearly kept the possibility of offensive operations in the near future off the table. That we were strictly concerned about GS aggression. I did however, let them know that we had a source of iron.

	18-01-2003 10:17									#66
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I think you handled it rather well Beta. It is good to hear that they are not getting along with ND - which definately opens them up for a close relationship with us

Did you tell them that we have a source of iron or sources of iron?

	18-01-2003 12:41									#67
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juicy stuff, I love it.

Yes I think they are our best shot at a permanent ally (close but not too close). We could help each other out in wars hopefully.

	18-01-2003 12:47									#68
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Yes it sounds like it went well. You did not disclose future plans for GS which is good since we don't know for sure if they have any contact with them. Probably not in game, but maybe out of game.

I'll leave it up to you how honest you think Lux is with their dealings with ND. You are in the best position to judge that. They could have planned all this out ahead of time, but not too likely I suppose. Did you guys plan this meet or did they approach you?

At the moment I can't imagine a reason why they would lie to us about their tensions with ND.

In fact the tensions are very believable. These are problems that you run into with neighbors on the same continent. Because we are on seperate continents we should get along great. This is good fortune we could see them accross the way. And even better that we can use galleys to get back and forth without worrying about them sinking. Map making is a ways off, but much better than techs for better ships.

	18-01-2003 12:58									#69
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Togas seemed very interested in our relations with GS

I said it looked like peace could be gotten, but that we were nervous arround them

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 13:12									#70
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he said that they traded mini maps some

and that they think that we and GS are alone on the island together

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 13:13									#71
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which means that GS either found huts, or RP is lying, or GS is really fast researchers

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 13:23									#72
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Spain has met ND

does that mean that they are on the same island with lux?

also spain knows that we have GS locked off

I think I am over my head here

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 13:36									#73
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whoa slow down there

how do you know all this?

and who traded mini maps?

and what does Spain mean by locked off?

	18-01-2003 13:40									#74
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I am talkign to them right now

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 13:42									#75
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Togas is on Spain and RP right?

Using 3 different names confused me.

That all makes sense. Yes it is possible they are on the same continent as ND and Lux

If they traded mini maps that explains how they know stuff about our continent. They may have traded minis with Lux as well.

	18-01-2003 13:43									#76
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don't reveal stuff we promised not to reveal- whatever that is

	18-01-2003 13:43									#77
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yah, Spain

what was the name of our continent again

I hope I am not botching this Beta

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 13:44									#78
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Estonia (norht and south)

	18-01-2003 13:44									#79
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spain has a thread in their forum, GS versus Vox

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 14:05									#80
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Betahound when you get a chance can you ask Lux if they have made any contact with civilizations beyond Neu Demo? I'm sure ther is someone beyond them... But they may not have made contact if Neu Demo is in the way.

Also maybe we could initiate more unofficial contact with Roleplay. They seem to know a lot about the world, and I'm very interested how much land is unexplored on our continent. This lets us know what GS has to work with. We've heard rumours about GS being locked in. I'm curious what that means. It is possible there is another civ beyond them- either Legoland or Glory of War. And I'm very curious how much land they have to work with- this will dictate how badly they want to settle up north.

Last edited by Dis on 18-01-2003 at 14:12

	18-01-2003 14:12									#81
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I think that spain is the gossip hounds of our world

I would be careful what we say arround them, but they could prove vaulable freinds (as well as places to plant disinformation)

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 14:13									#82
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oh, I will repeat it (if I have said it already)

spain said that GS and we were alone on our island

and did not expect us to ahve made other contact

Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 14:14									#83
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BWT, currently I am thinking that GS does not have that much more land that we do nto see
Jon Miller

	18-01-2003 14:37									#84
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Just to reiterate the discussion me and Jon had.

I just don't want to give up any advantage we have over GS this early. This advantage won't last long. As skywalker so generously pointed out their War Chariots can't enter the mountains and the jungle.

So what I'm thinking is we settle the entire jungle and mountain area and possibley the grassland squares between the desert and jungle (although this will be more difficult to defend from war chariots).

If they don't like it we go to war. The objective would not be to take over their cities. But to ensure our claim to the entire jungle region. If we eliminate any roads they build, then their chariots cannot enter that region. And until they get Iron Working they won't have a great unit that can (unless they research horse riding or unless they have warrior code for archers).

So I was thinking we use this advantage to settle that entire region (either peacefully or by force).

I think this will give us the bigger empire. And having the larger empire should help us better defend any attacks by them in the future (we can out produce them etc.).

	18-01-2003 19:04									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Did you tell them that we have a source of iron or sources of iron?

Yes. I told them we had source. And left it at that.

	18-01-2003 19:16									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller spain has a thread in their forum, GS versus Vox Jon Miller

Interesting!!! I wonder which of us the smart money is on.

	18-01-2003 19:26									#87
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Dissident - regarding your last post - and the conversation you and jon had ... I second - or I guess it is a third the motion.

I think it would be a tough fight now if we cam down out of the mountains with sprearmen and immortals - and faced large stacks of chariots - with us having a maximum of two on defence.

So - I concur - let's claim the entire jungle and mountain region, and even a few tiles south of it if we can (lesser priority) And I agree - they will have no easy way in. Hats off to the computer if with two civs on a continent - it put the only two sources of iron right in between. That's why I want to snag the fish-wheat iron first - it is a much more attractive site south of the mountains for them as well. Where they will be in no rush to settle the east area.

By the time such a setllement is complete - we should have a reasonable military, and we - Vox and Lux - hopefully will have galleys - and we can co-opt Lux' help in a little push on the continent.

	18-01-2003 19:34									#88
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I remember a much earlier discussion about geography and the suggestion of 7 civs spread out over 3 landmasses. That would appear to be the case.

Us and GS on Estonia.

Lux, Neu D, and Roleplay/Spain/Togas on the central continent. Trip and Calc were thinking of naming it Medina.

And that would leave Legoland and GoW on the third - presumably a continent roughly our size.

I also think it is good news that GS does not have any neighbours. I suspect they got a number of huts. And regarding Diss' comment about how much land they may or may not have - it would be interesting to know. I suspect it may not be a lot either. Would have been nice to have a warrior go a bit further south. But we were pushing it as it was....

	18-01-2003 20:17									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I think that spain is the gossip hounds of our world I would be careful what we say arround them, but they could prove vaulable freinds (as well as places to plant disinformation) Jon Miller

Agreed and understood.

I have not contacted any of the other civs lately. Do any of you see any reason for doing so? Other than to say hi, how's it going?

	18-01-2003 22:23									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller spain has a thread in their forum, GS versus Vox

I would love to be a fly on the wall in that forum!