12-07-2003 01:16									#241
	Increase Your PM Length

Actually edit the text very soon. The title will stick however.

	12-07-2003 01:18									#242
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Woohoo!!! I have a 5-1 lead


Now, if only GS would get back to me....

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 12-07-2003 at 01:54

	12-07-2003 02:55									#243
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Im waiting for Togas now...

Chatroom #GoW_CoFA pass Raiders

	12-07-2003 04:46									#244
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Session Start: Fri Jul 11 17:39:38 2003 Session Ident: #GoW_CoFA * Now talking in #GoW_CoFA * Retrieving #GoW_CoFA info... * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +k Raiders * Trip` has joined #gow_cofa * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +o Trip` [UnOrthOdO] If you haven't seen our forum since this morning, you might like to have a look as well. [Trip`] As I said before [Trip`] I see everything [UnOrthOdO] I bet you get a good laugh too [Trip`] [Trip`] you guys need to get in motion [Trip`] ISDG is boring right now, I want to see some fireworks [UnOrthOdO] Soon enough. [UnOrthOdO] Who has the craziest forum? [UnOrthOdO] Not specifics... [UnOrthOdO] I would imagine GS is all business for instance [Trip`] craziest as in the most active? [UnOrthOdO] no, just strangest stuff [UnOrthOdO] Togas left, Im geting Arnelos and BigFree * Togas has joined #gow_cofa * Arnelos has joined #GoW_CoFA [Togas] greetings, just read your email [UnOrthOdO] Ah there you are. [UnOrthOdO] I was bothering Arn there on AIM [Togas] he gave me a shove over in our channel * BigFree has joined #GoW_CoFA [UnOrthOdO] Let me see if Poly is going to work now so I can get my notes. * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +o Trip` * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +o Trip` [BigFree] The Raiders are my Team! 12:4)1 [UnOrthOdO] ok...wont let me select anyone else... * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +o Arnelos * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +o BigFree * UnOrthOdO sets mode: +o Togas [UnOrthOdO] There we go [UnOrthOdO] Mine too! [Togas] talk for a moment w/o me. Need to go drop something off with secretary * Togas is still at work. [Togas] brb. [UnOrthOdO] I get odd looks around town in my Tim Brown Jersey, though. [BigFree] LOL [BigFree] [UnOrthOdO] Look out, a gang member!!! [UnOrthOdO] [BigFree] HAHA [BigFree] I love Timmy [UnOrthOdO] Can't believe they left Barret on the team, though. [BigFree] I know, that did surprise me [BigFree] ******* drunk [Togas] back [UnOrthOdO] Ok. [UnOrthOdO] Let's get down to business then [UnOrthOdO] I want to lay some rules down first. [UnOrthOdO] I don't know what you are used to, but with me, this is business. [UnOrthOdO] I don't have allot of time to be dealing with crap. [UnOrthOdO] Straight up, no BS, and I expect the same. [UnOrthOdO] Can we agree to that? [BigFree] yep [Togas] I prefer that. [UnOrthOdO] Alright. [UnOrthOdO] I understand your guy's position right now, allow me to explain ours. [UnOrthOdO] We did sell Chiv to ND. [UnOrthOdO] Somehow, somewhere, they were told the exact turn we would get it. [UnOrthOdO] Removed Iron that turn, as they play before us. [UnOrthOdO] There are limited number of places the exact turn could have come from... [UnOrthOdO] So, we agreed to sell it for a fair amount of gold plus iron, but a part of that was 10 turns no trade to you. [UnOrthOdO] Hence all this BS [Togas] so you're saying that ND *made* you not sell it to us? [UnOrthOdO] That was a part of the deal, yes. [Togas] so the whole offer of 500g ...? [UnOrthOdO] There is plenty more... [UnOrthOdO] GS and us had an arrangement fair agreed to long ago. [Togas] sorry. Please explain. [UnOrthOdO] Before I even became their ambassador. [UnOrthOdO] After fullfilling our end, they ceased all consideration of a Non Agression, added a clause to an existing Lux deal saying they could back out with a one turn warning [UnOrthOdO] And refuse to talk of tech trades in the future. [UnOrthOdO] We, obviously, consider this an alliance with ND against us. [UnOrthOdO] So, we have ND, and GS planning an attack. [BigFree] Why does ND want a 10 turn no-trade to RP? They must plan to attack if they do not want us having Chiv, its an offense unit with pretty good defensive properties. [UnOrthOdO] We also received information that RP was a part of this. [Togas] from? [UnOrthOdO] That you guys are building MI and Pikes [BigFree] we are now [Arnelos] well, that's no secret [UnOrthOdO] and the 10 turn no trade has now screwed us. [UnOrthOdO] We can either break it, giving ND a reason to attack [UnOrthOdO] or not break it, giving you a reason to attack. [Arnelos] we started building MI and pikes a while back, switched ALL cities to it recently. We didn't even try to hide that... we must have TOLD half the civs in the game [BigFree] we will not attack you [Togas] how are we going to attack? [Togas] teleport? [UnOrthOdO] either way it can lead to a whole alliance to our downfall. [BigFree] regardless of whether you give us Chiv or not [UnOrthOdO] For all we know you have troops right outside the ND/GoW Border. [Arnelos] unortho... yeah, I agree, how on earth WOULD WE attack you guys? [Togas] go check to see [BigFree] you think we would ally with ND? [UnOrthOdO] If planned in advance, you could have moved them. [Arnelos] and leave our back door wide open to GS... give us SOME credit [UnOrthOdO] This is civ. [UnOrthOdO] Can we agree? [Togas] agree on what? [UnOrthOdO] Our island has only two likely ways to break it up [UnOrthOdO] North and south, either RP/ND or RP/GoW [Togas] Or GoW/ND [Arnelos] no... ND/GoW or ND/RP [BigFree] I agree with Uno [UnOrthOdO] ND/GoW? [Arnelos] RP/GoW would be the height of stupidity... it leaves you wide open to a backstab [UnOrthOdO] What and split the GoW empire? [UnOrthOdO] leaving ND continuous? [Togas] Ok, I'm lost . [BigFree] let me talk [UnOrthOdO] How would ND and GoW split the island? [UnOrthOdO] ok, BigFree. [Arnelos] oh.... [BigFree] not very well [Arnelos] we thought you mean who was possible to fight whom [BigFree] I agre with Uno about the split of our land mass [BigFree] it makes more sense to split it RP/GoW than anything else [UnOrthOdO] Yes it does [Togas] but we're not talking about sense, we're talking about Civ. [BigFree] hence a RP/GoW alliance shouod be in place [BigFree] shh [Togas] [BigFree] lets get a pact worked out Uno [Arnelos] we already have an RP/GoW alliance... it's just had some... bumps [BigFree] an RP/GoW alliance [Togas] BF, I already sent a new draft to Panzer and MZ. [BigFree] cool [Togas] I'm just waiting to get it back. [BigFree] lets get it done [UnOrthOdO] The MPP or an alliance? [Arnelos] ok... let's say ND attacks GoW... and we attack ND in response... what about GS? [BigFree] That alliance will solve our fears for both GoW and RP [BigFree] both UnO [Arnelos] same thing if ND attacks RP [UnOrthOdO] MZ was supposed to sign the MPP [BigFree] [Arnelos] GS is the problem either way [BigFree] it is [BigFree] but we deal with it as it comes [UnOrthOdO] I have a chat with GS tonight as well. [UnOrthOdO] Im a busy man. [Arnelos] GS is almost certainly building a stack of galleys off their coast and just waiting around to see when the war starts [BigFree] Uno, would you be willing to sign a MPP and an Alliance against ND? [Togas] Whichever is fine with me. Just send it to us. [UnOrthOdO] Here's the thing. Technically I can't do it till the poll clears. [UnOrthOdO] I CAN take it and 'rush' it through. [UnOrthOdO] I just need 4 votes, and I can get those. [BigFree] nice [UnOrthOdO] However, what we need to know. [UnOrthOdO] We have been given evidence that you are building and attacking us. [BigFree] we are building, theres no doubt about it [Togas] ??? [UnOrthOdO] When can you attack ND. [Togas] who on Earth is dumb enough to think we're attacking you? [BigFree] but we are building aganist an attack by ND [UnOrthOdO] Our team does NOT like waiting around to see if we are going to be attacked. [UnOrthOdO] We are proactive, not reactive. [Togas] nor do we like waiting around either. [Arnelos] Unortho... as previously expressed, we would have to be the dumbest players on the face of the earth to attack you... it leaves us wide open to multiple backstabs... it's the height of idiocy [BigFree] we are pretty sure ND is going to attack us [UnOrthOdO] As would we you. [Togas] they're clearing jungle near our cities [UnOrthOdO] ? [BigFree] we only slightly suspected that GoW would join them [BigFree] but if you sign a MPP and an Alliance, then we have nothing to fear [UnOrthOdO] This leaves Iron as a problem of course. [BigFree] we have two [BigFree] one for you if you ally with us [UnOrthOdO] ND can block galley lands. [BigFree] I believe that Lego wil have a Harbor soo [Arnelos] not to mention we have absolutely NOTHING to gain from attack on GoW... any cities would be hopelessly corrupt and GoW being on the other side of ND from us is a BENEFIT to us... it just wouldn't make any sense. If you are scared of an RP attack, you're just being uncontrollably paranoid [UnOrthOdO] We feel the real attack is GS/ND and you are just in as assistance. [BigFree] ah [UnOrthOdO] If it was going that way. [BigFree] I assure it is not [Togas] assistance? Maybe if they gave us Chiv... [BigFree] GS gave us the same deal about our Luxes too [Arnelos] ND is definately been making their fair share of belicose moves toward us recently [BigFree] they want no NAP tied to them [BigFree] 12:4(1 [BigFree] we tried heavily, but they would not budge [UnOrthOdO] ok. [BigFree] so your assumption of a ND/GS connection seems valid [UnOrthOdO] We agree, great. [UnOrthOdO] Can I take something back with me? [UnOrthOdO] How soon can you attack? [BigFree] so it would be basically RP/GoW gainst ND/GS [UnOrthOdO] Yes. [BigFree] we willnot attack [BigFree] we are waiting to be atacked [UnOrthOdO] You will not attack ND? [BigFree] we have built for defense [UnOrthOdO] Then what good is an alliance? [BigFree] wait, that is seperate [BigFree] if you want to ally, then attack, then we can plan [BigFree] no problems there [UnOrthOdO] Thats what Im trying to do... [Togas] let me put it this way: We have no PLANS to attack at this time, but we would be happy to make plans. [BigFree] we'd need Chiv to help out [UnOrthOdO] If we violate, both ND and GS attack. [BigFree] we can not plan without an alliance in place [UnOrthOdO] We lose more free turns of Iron. [BigFree] sure [BigFree] like i said ealier though, lego has a aharbor soon, maybe we can trade through it [BigFree] do you have a Harbor? [BigFree] or are you planning one? [UnOrthOdO] We have some, yes. [UnOrthOdO] lux trade with GS... [UnOrthOdO] don't you read my stories? [BigFree] cool [Togas] ND would have to blockade one of our harbors to stop trade [BigFree] then we can trade Iron to you [Togas] our ships could travel around counter-clockwise durign a war [Togas] ND's culture won't block our trade. [BigFree] Lets make this a part of our alliance [UnOrthOdO] Sure [BigFree] we trade Iron to you you trade Chiv to us [BigFree] plus we can give you one extra lux [UnOrthOdO] I think we may want to attack sooner than that if at all possible. [BigFree] then lets ally now [BigFree] we need that in place [UnOrthOdO] As soon as we write it up I can get it signed. [BigFree] that is what is holding this up [BigFree] cool [BigFree] one step before another [BigFree] then we strike together [Togas] what sort of timeframe are we looking at? [BigFree] we both strike on same turn [UnOrthOdO] ASAP as far as we're concerned. [UnOrthOdO] Ansars are cheaper, the longer we wait... [BigFree] ND has their turn, then GoW strikes, then RP strikes (thats the turn order) [BigFree] we have Cats that wont make it through the jungle [BigFree] we were planning a defensive war [BigFree] bu we have some units avaialbe [UnOrthOdO] Enough for an offensive? [BigFree] mosty just Pikes [BigFree] a few MI's [UnOrthOdO] We are fairly certain ND was NOT planning defense... [Togas] we can adjust, not a problem. [BigFree] agree Uno [Togas] can we set up a meeting with your CoW and our General? [BigFree] send us the alliance deal, signed, we sign it,then we plan [UnOrthOdO] Is he here? [UnOrthOdO] [UnOrthOdO] Im a very busy man... [BigFree] LOL [UnOrthOdO] GF left, Aggie on vacation...Vice CALF to the rescue! [Arnelos] lol [Togas] [Arnelos] dejon isn't online, unfortunately [UnOrthOdO] And we thought we were being redundant... [BigFree] 12:4)1 [BigFree] we can definately occupy ND down South for a bit, but GoW has the right type of offensive unit that RP doesn't [Togas] we'll arrange for a meeting in a few days. [UnOrthOdO] Will you guys send me a proposal? [UnOrthOdO] Soon? [BigFree] sure [BigFree] today [UnOrthOdO] We will be sitting on the save. [BigFree] good [Togas] hold on, we cannot attack this turn. [UnOrthOdO] Next? [UnOrthOdO] I still want it befreo we play [BigFree] possibly [Togas] you guys don't have to sit on it. Let me consult with my experts to give you a "best case" attack turn. [UnOrthOdO] before [BigFree] Togas, I think Uno has a point [Togas] ? [UnOrthOdO] Yes, get us a proposal with this best case, we'll sit on the save and then crush some enemies. [BigFree] I agree [UnOrthOdO] on the best case... [Togas] we can give you something tonight. [BigFree] [UnOrthOdO] Great. [UnOrthOdO] Now to prepare for the GS chat... [UnOrthOdO] got any dirt on NYE? [BigFree] ViVa the Bob Alliance of GoW/RP!! [BigFree] only that they denied our request for a NAP [UnOrthOdO] yes. [BigFree] 12:4(1 [BigFree] so you can use that [UnOrthOdO] ok...one sec. kids. [UnOrthOdO] back. [UnOrthOdO] Alright. [UnOrthOdO] We'll have a plan tonight? [BigFree] yes, for an Allioance against ND and or GS and a MPP [UnOrthOdO] Mpp from whom? Lego? [UnOrthOdO] [BigFree] yes [UnOrthOdO] we're crushing the rest. [Togas] tonight we will send you an estimate on how soon we can feasibly attack ND. [UnOrthOdO] like Lego would commit units... [UnOrthOdO] that's fine. [Togas] you need to get the alliance drafted and sent to us [UnOrthOdO] Ok. [BigFree] and also ou alliance would incluse a protection pact against any teams that attack GoW or RP [Togas] it would also include iron [UnOrthOdO] With any luck we would have our own soon... [BigFree] hehe [UnOrthOdO] Togas, your the lawyer, can't you draft. [BigFree] UnO: one question? [UnOrthOdO] I hate that crap... [UnOrthOdO] shoot. [UnOrthOdO] yes? [BigFree] Did you or did younot have any sort of planned or supposed plan to attack RP with ND, even if it was going to include a back-stab of ND? [BigFree] and not really attak RP [UnOrthOdO] There was talk in the forum. * Arnelos notes that this was his theory [Arnelos] [BigFree] was there talk between ND and GooW of such things? [UnOrthOdO] Yes, they proposed it a while back. [BigFree] ok [BigFree] just wantted to be sure [BigFree] what did you tel them? [UnOrthOdO] We couldn't agree to the island split because it makes no sense. [Togas] that was our cheif theory -- GoW naval drop, ND invasion... [UnOrthOdO] NAVAL DROP! [UnOrthOdO] LOL [BigFree] lol [BigFree] I agree Uno [UnOrthOdO] our 4 galleys would bring your doom!!!! [Togas] [BigFree] I think the only thing that would have happened is that ND would have attacked and GoW would have back stabbed them [UnOrthOdO] since one is WAAAAYYY over in lego right now... [Togas] no doom, just a show for ND. [Arnelos] the GoW backstab of ND was what I argued... it makes no sense what-so-ever for RP to attack GoW or GoW to attack RP unless a backstab of ND is somewhere involved [BigFree] exactly * Togas nods. [BigFree] but we never did plan with ND [BigFree] they never aproached us [Arnelos] ND doesn't really talk to us [Arnelos] ever [BigFree] we have been happy being peaceful till now [UnOrthOdO] Talks JUST broke down actually... [UnOrthOdO] should we continue that plan? [BigFree] really, why? [UnOrthOdO] the map thing. [Togas] ? [UnOrthOdO] we couldd agree to their proposal... [UnOrthOdO] backstab... [Arnelos] we'd really prefer not [BigFree] lol [Arnelos] it would be better for us to both attack them before they get the chance to attack either of us [BigFree] agreed [Arnelos] because I'd rather that battles were being fought in ND territory than near Imperial City or Madrid [Togas] Ansars in Cow Valley. Yay. [UnOrthOdO] It would put riders on both sides of them. . . . [UnOrthOdO] pillage city. [UnOrthOdO] 3 turn pillage pillage pillage! [BigFree] NICE!

	12-07-2003 04:47									#245
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: [BigFree] so,relations between GoW and ND are not good now? Do they suspect an attack? [UnOrthOdO] We are still 'debating' the map [BigFree] well, maybe they suspect us, but do they now expect GoW? [BigFree] what map? [BigFree] I dont get it [UnOrthOdO] how to split the map. [BigFree] ah, you means split the landmass [UnOrthOdO] yes. [UnOrthOdO] sorry. [BigFree] ok [UnOrthOdO] Bob. * Togas pulls out his map... [BigFree] i was liek WTF does a mp have to do with it [BigFree] 12:4)1 [BigFree] Our first target would have to be Marlowa [BigFree] whats your? [UnOrthOdO] I don't have it loaded up right now. [BigFree] thats ok [UnOrthOdO] We were planning a two pronged assault if we backstabbed. [BigFree] but Iron will be you first target no doubt [UnOrthOdO] NO!!!! [UnOrthOdO] [UnOrthOdO] I suspect that is heavily defended. [BigFree] LOL [Togas] we can give you iron, anyhow. [UnOrthOdO] Right. [BigFree] maybe if you can pillage it, we can send in some pikes to pillage theirs [UnOrthOdO] and we have talked to Lego [BigFree] their other Iron that is [BigFree] cool [UnOrthOdO] We could do that with pikes. [BigFree] GoW has back ups [UnOrthOdO] not as many as we used to. [UnOrthOdO] Vox... [BigFree] well, RP is your new back up [BigFree] 12:4)1 [UnOrthOdO] Shall I continue to deceive ND then? [Arnelos] I don't see how it matters one way or the other [BigFree] if you think you need to [Togas] in what way? [BigFree] maybe an attack on this turn, if we et alliance signed, would be best. [Togas] this turn? [UnOrthOdO] Let me load up the map. [Togas] Right now I'm looking for a natural line that makes sense... [BigFree] to dived up Bob with [Togas] there's a mountain range North of Mavdad and Trippolis that runs to Neu Theb and then SW of it. [BigFree] *divide [UnOrthOdO] Lets just say devide it up by number of tiles. [UnOrthOdO] Then agree to share all resources. [Arnelos] Unortho... personally, I'm more concerned about having a natural barrier such as our current jungle [Arnelos] the mountains north of that work... no idea what the number of tiles are [Arnelos] such as if we de-militarized the mountain range [UnOrthOdO] Oh, you're fearing more backstabbing. [UnOrthOdO] And I thought we were paranoid [Togas] as a part of the conquest, GoW would be assured the eastern gems and your own source of incense. [Arnelos] Unorthodox... oldest rule in teh book: No alliance survives victory [BigFree] LOL [Togas] we need to discourage any thoughts of future betrayal. [BigFree] we can talk exact split later [BigFree] I agree [Arnelos] a demilitarized zone or at least a buffer zone would be necessary [UnOrthOdO] We can agree to that during the war. [BigFree] there is more than enough room for us two on Bob [Arnelos] agreed [UnOrthOdO] Are you guys DIRECTLY AFTER US? [Togas] we are [Arnelos] yes [UnOrthOdO] OOO fun war chats. [BigFree] ND-GoW-RP [Togas] I'm hoping to have MANY future war chats [Togas] bring out the maps and charts [BigFree] yes, me too [Togas] plan moves, move stack of units [Togas] push them around on the big board... [Togas] exchange jpgs from our generals [BigFree] HAHA [BigFree] of naked women? [Togas] * BigFree hopes it wouldn't be naked men [UnOrthOdO] You guys are pretty fortified. [Arnelos] that's at least been our AIM [Arnelos] unsure how good it's been * Arnelos feels sad that his "Invasion of Spain" Simulator he was working on will now have to changed to an "Invasion of ND" Simulator [BigFree] haha [BigFree] yes! [Arnelos] dejon still gets to be the guinea pig, though [BigFree] we can send some disrupting forces now though [UnOrthOdO] We are working one too...just have our units right now... [UnOrthOdO] of course. [Togas] we need to switch a lot of builds to more offensive units. [Arnelos] Unortho - mostly the same here [BigFree] some pikes and MI to make them squeal [Arnelos] I have all of Bob, all the seas of the rest of the world (to model naval attacks by GS if we want to add that). I have all production and estimated production and buildings for ND and GoW cities... [Arnelos] only thing missing is to turn teh clock forward and add extra units to Spain for extra turns of production, give units to ND and GoW and then get people to play the sim [UnOrthOdO] I haven't really looked at ours yet. [UnOrthOdO] MZ and Panzer were working it, just posted today. [Arnelos] yeah... I got busy the last 2 days and haven't finished it yet [Arnelos] I sent Togas the template * GhengisFarb has joined #GoW_CoFA [GhengisFarb] son of a ......... [UnOrthOdO] What now, GF? [Togas] ha ha! [UnOrthOdO] Me or MZ? [UnOrthOdO] Or have you seen the forum? * Trip` is now known as Trip[busy] [GhengisFarb] I had to look through EIGHT threads to find out what the password was [GhengisFarb] I'm getting really fed up with this disorganized crap in the team forum. [Arnelos] more resistant to spies that way, GhengisFarb * GhengisFarb suddenly realizes Espaniards are here....... [Arnelos] yeah... a bunch of just defected to GoW... no problem [Arnelos] yeah WAR!!! [GhengisFarb] Oh, I mean, the team forum is WONDERFUL, that's what I meant to say [Arnelos] kill! loot! pillage! [UnOrthOdO] It was in the RIGHT THREAD! [Arnelos] tell me all your secrets! [UnOrthOdO] RP FA office... [GhengisFarb] Yeah but how I had no idea what team you had in here until I went to that team's thread and found the password. [GhengisFarb] What happened to the "x"? Censors get a hold of you UnOrthO? [BigFree] anything else to discuss UnO? [UnOrthOdO] I don't know [UnOrthOdO] it's on my logon. [UnOrthOdO] No, and I need to get going. [BigFree] Uno [BigFree] wait [Arnelos] cya [GhengisFarb] Did we get Rp to agree to a Chivalry deal? [BigFree] Uno, we are having troubel finding somone to write the draft up, I have to go to work and Togas has a play to go to [UnOrthOdO] I have another MEETING! [UnOrthOdO] And my kids. [BigFree] 12:4(1 [BigFree] then late tonight then [UnOrthOdO] must feed them VERY SOON!!!! [BigFree] wait [Togas] I'm asking Arnie .... [GhengisFarb] So I take it we agreed to something, good. [BigFree] maybe we can find someone else [BigFree] a GoW/RP alliance [BigFree] against ND and/or GS [UnOrthOdO] Yep, they are writting a proposal tonight, we hold the sav till then. [BigFree] yep [UnOrthOdO] GF, there is also a chat with GS tonight... [UnOrthOdO] just so they can refuse more NAPs... [GhengisFarb] I will be readily available, not that it matters any. [BigFree] just like they did to us many times [Arnelos] Unortho... when we DO go to war, do you want us to sign an in-game alliance? [UnOrthOdO] Perhaps. [GhengisFarb] See ya UnOrtho [BigFree] I think that woud be best [UnOrthOdO] It will be obvious anyway. [BigFree] in-game alliance is more insurance * GhengisFarb has left #GoW_CoFA [BigFree] for both teams [UnOrthOdO] Why? [BigFree] you have to decalre war [Arnelos] not really... rep points don't mean jack, do they? [BigFree] or brak the alliance [UnOrthOdO] Rep IN GAME means nothing. [BigFree] then the other teams can see that [UnOrthOdO] oh. [UnOrthOdO] ok. [Arnelos] BigFree has a point... other teams will see the alliance has been BROKEN [UnOrthOdO] I gotta feed my one year old. [BigFree] ok adios [BigFree] thanks Uno [UnOrthOdO] Arn, you drafting? [Arnelos] cya [Arnelos] I believe [Arnelos] yes [BigFree] you are great [UnOrthOdO] ok, look forward to it. [Arnelos] okie dokie [UnOrthOdO] ****... [UnOrthOdO] forgot logging. [BigFree] I can send to you [BigFree] give me eamil * Logging #GoW_CoFA to 'logs\#RP chat.GRNet.log' [UnOrthOdO] saving the buffer. [BigFree] are you sirulias [UnOrthOdO] AOL, yes. [BigFree] cool [BigFree] I have that one

	12-07-2003 04:49									#246
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ok.

Im going to hell now.

	12-07-2003 05:07									#247
	Increase Your PM Length

This has got to be the biggest load of crap any team in civ history has fed to another!!!!

Man, we should be called The Glory of Diplomacy

	12-07-2003 05:38									#248
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Ok. Im going to hell now.

Clearly.

	12-07-2003 05:58									#249
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Man, we should be called The Glory of Diplomacy

Glory of Diplomacy?

Wouldn't that make us GoD?

	12-07-2003 06:01									#250
	Got spare money?

I would REALLY like to get a GoW poker game together!

Damn...between GF, MZ, and me...you can bet there would be plenty of bluffs.

	12-07-2003 06:26									#251
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow. Things are definatly heating up now.

	12-07-2003 07:56									#252
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen This has got to be the biggest load of crap any team in civ history has fed to another!!!!

I smell sig material there...

	12-07-2003 18:23									#253
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Unorthodox, I need to stress that my general has not confirmed this #. His opinion is that we need more time to build up the stack necessary for a proper invasion. And it is over his protests that I send you this very rough estimate. If our lives depended on it, we could have an attack force ready in 5 turns. Now, if we really wanted to crush ND, it's going to take longer to get the #s we need. Fighting a fortified *3* defender with only 4 attack units is painful and costly in numbers. Attacking in 5 turns will give us a half-assed attack force that might level 1 city. Waiting twice that long would give us more of what is required for a successful campaign. Please let us know what makes the matter so urgent, and let us know when you believe the ideal time for an attack will be. --Togas

God bless Rp.....

They are taking their time to write up the proposition.
makes delaying so much easier.

quote: Well, Certainly. The timeframe is urgent due to one simple fact. Ansars are cheaper than Riders. And, while creative pillaging initially allowed us to create more horses than anyone thinks we could upgrade, we are now out of money and are producing the more expensive Riders. Hiding our strength a bit by not upgrading yet. We likely have a number advantage now, that will dissolve the longer we wait and into the GA. I admit that we have not handled this whole thing with you properly up to now, and you are not prepared for an offensive. As I was saying, our backstab plan calls for a two front assault just from us. Two sizeable fronts. I can't give specifics until an agreement is signed, of course. However, you are prepared for defense, perhaps simply declaring war with us and building up while we are the initial attack would work fine. If you are right and ND is focused south, it would take them a few turns to move north, or split forces sooner, perhaps making your road easier in the process. UnOrthOdOx

	13-07-2003 07:24									#254
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From Togas:

quote: (the following is too long for PMs, so it has been sent via email) Our old Mutual Defense Pact ends after turn 128. Please sign this one and it'll take the place of the old one. It has just been confirmed in our House of Lords. Spanish - Glory of War Defense Pact Statement of Purpose This is an alliance between the nations of Spain and the Glory of War. It is a general mutual-defence agreement, a non-aggression pact, a non-settlement agreement, and a full military alliance upon the event of either party going to war. Article I Definition of established territory The territory of Spain is defined as all land inside Spain's cultural borders and all lands on the continent named Bob south of the Spanish city of Toledo. The territory of the Glory of War is defined as all land inside China's cultural borders, all lands on the continent named Bob north of the Glory of War city of Tatung, and all lands on the island which has the cities of Camulodunum and Zenophobia. Article II Redefinition of the territory Either party may propose to redefine their national territory and the change shall be effective upon the agreement of the other party. The definition of the territory of both parties may be changed if: New territories will be found, under the condition that these new territories are fully explored and unsettled by any other nation; New settlements, that are outside of the land defined in Article I, are founded; New territory, that is outside of the land defined in Article I, is accuired in any way; Territory, that is part of the land defined in Article I, is lost in any way. Article III Causes that activate the mutual-defense pact If another nation settles on the land that is defined in Article I, while the party that claims this land has informed an official of the offending nation that they claim those lands, both the offended party and the other party in the treaty will declare war on the settling nation if the party that claims these lands requests this. If another nation moves military forces into the land that is defined in Article I, while the party that claims this land has informed an official of the offending nation that they claim those lands, both the offended party and the other party in the treaty will declare war on the offending nation if the party that claims these lands requests this. If another nation attacks any units or cities belonging to a party to this treaty or pillages any improvements within the territory of a party to this treaty, the offended party and the other party to this treaty will declare war on the offending party if the offended party requests this. Article IV Non-settlement & Non-agression ageement Neither party shall settle in the territoriy that the other party has claimed to be his as stated in Article I or II. Neither party shall enter the claimed territory of the other party without prior approval. Also neither party shall declare war on the other, attack the units of the other, or enter the cultural borders of the other without express permission. Neither party shall commit espionage against the other. Article V Full Military Alliance Upon the invocation of Article III, this Article shall be called into action and war shall be declared on an enemy by both parties. This article may also be called into action upon the agreement of both parties on a common enemy. Once war has begun and until it ends by mutual agreement, both parties are obligated to provide the positions of all military forces in the territory of the enemy, the theatre of war, or on route to the enemy to the other party in order to improve military coordination between the parties. Once war with the enemy has begun and until it ends by mutual agreement, both parties are responsible to keep each other informed of where their military forces will be heading in the coming turns and specifically what cities or other strongholds of the enemy they will be assaulting. Once war has begun and until it ends by mutual agreement, both parties shall share their world maps with one another. Article V Duration of the Treaty The Treaty shall have a lenth of 40 turns, starting in the turn in which it has been signed by both parties. The Treaty may be extended for any amount of turns upon the agreement of both parties. Article VI Settlement of any war In the case of any war where the alliance has been activated and both parties are at war with another nation, the parties shall jointly agree to any terms for ending the war and no separate peace treaties shall be made between a party and the enemy. Any and all additions to the official territory of either power as defined in Article I can be temporarily agreed to before the end of a war, but may be altered at the end of the war when a final agreement of permanent borders, as defined in Article I, will be negotiated by both parties as part of the joint peace agreement. Signed, Togas, King of the Republic of Spain. Signed,

Of course, we cannot accept this; lets delay.

I'm sorry Togas but I think a 2 day 'poll' is in order here

	13-07-2003 12:46									#255
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espescially since I haven't 'won' the um 'no confidence' poll yet.

quote: Unorthdox, Thank you for your message. I have relayed it to my team. We will continue our buildup and preparations, of course, as quickly as possible. Any information you can give us on the timeframe will help us prepare. I'm not sure when you plan to attack ND but I would strongly reccommend waiting 3 turns so that our colony can be established and we can arrange for a backup source of iron should you need it. We will be free to chat at any time with an hour or two's notice. --Togas

I think we can agree to wait 3 turns before attacking ND


got a message to check with MZ and panzer for the treaty too. nothing worth posting.

	13-07-2003 17:34									#256
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I think we should discuss a luxury clause in this. Let's me "honest" with Roleplay. We have evaluated our position and realize we cannot win, but that either Roleplay, Lego, or GS will. We wish to become a "partner" to one of these three teams and finish the game with them. We would like to make some sort of "permanent" agreement with Roleplay to wipeout the other teams and and agreement to share luxuries to the end of the game, this will allow us to support extremely large cities with high production.

If we maintain a very agressive stance like this they should discuss it amongst their team theirselves and add to the delay.

	13-07-2003 18:54									#257
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Great idea GF!

Ill try to get another chat either tonight or tomorrow. Just to bring that up. Ill let you know the time since RP thinks that you and I are their friends while MZ is pure evil incarnate.

	13-07-2003 18:55									#258
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I'd be telling Togas exactly what we think of this contract.

He is known for inserting loopholes, and sneaking in clauses in the fine print that is not immediately obvious. Just tell him that its going to take a few days for the GoW legal team to go through everything.

In particular... we are not happy with :
This agreement now means we agree that RP is rightful owner of half the continent, while GoW is rightful owner of only one quarter.
ND lands are up for grabs.. whoever gets it first.

We told them this was a sticky point we had with ND... so tell them we are not happy with the wording from RP.
Tell them we want ownership of ND land so the continent is split evenly in half.

As GF says ... we also want agreement of luxeries. All luxeries are to be shared free of cost.

Tell them we want to discuss what happens if say our Iron deposit that we get from ND is exhausted, and appears in RP territory ? Dont tell them what we want, but rather .. "what happens?" ... let them come up with a proposal.

Article III..
Tell them we have NEVER been comfortable with claiming land not covered by cultural borders. If a team settles on land that RP have yet covered by cultural borders... then it is RP to remove that team...GoW should not get involved.

Article IV is a joke... we cant sign this

And of course.. polling is needed after they address the above concerns

	13-07-2003 18:58									#259
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Yep.

Man they are going to scream about us...me in particular...when we declare war.

we were actively negotiating, that is all. Preparing for war is no reason to cease normal relations with that team.

	14-07-2003 07:45									#260
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quote: Hey Togas, Im afraid that most of our real skilled writers are away for the weekend, and I am unable to get ahold of Panzer for any confirmation on what I had written up. So, instead here is a list of changes that we would like made to the contract in its current state. Article I: As it stands, it gives us both what we currently have. This is all fine and good, except that RP has far more than ourselves in terms of land. We would prefer an agreement that the land be split equally once ND is removed. Article II: We see this as potentially hazardous at best. You see we already have units south, if we start taking cities there, they would be close to your territory, for instance. Once ND is gone this would only breed contention between us. Better to agree to split the land after, agreeing to gift cities if needed for such a deal to take place. I mean, what if ND takes a city from you and we liberate it? By this writing, it would be ours. Rightfully it should return to you, and vice versa should the opposite happen. Article III: We really don't want much part of this. If Lego settles on your land, we see it as your problem unless we extend this MPP/Alliance. Now, GS/ND settling is entirely different of course. Hence the Alliance, so this is not needed. It is also covered in the Brotherhood of Bob to begin with. Pillaging would require declarations of war. Yes, we can agree that an enemy of the alliance is our enemy as well. Article IV: This is only constrained by our contentions in I and II The Alliance all reads good. However, we would like to add Something if possible: Both teams agree to share all lux and resources free of charge for the duration of the alliance once activated. This only assures that we both run at peak efficiency, in our mutual best interest. An Extension? Looking at this game in civ terms, it is clear that the winner is likely to be one of three teams: Roleplay Lego Gathering Storm It is in our best interest to sign on in a long term...employment...with one of these to ensure we are allowed to end the game and prove that mercenaries are worth while. The end-game can include a very fun war for the victor, a declaration of joint victors, or possibly even our stepping down if we are interested in starting up a new game. It makes no sense for us to sign with any civ outside of bob. Why give them access to our home when we would need to stage a naval assault on them? This leaves RP as the natural choice. Therefore, we propose extending this here and now, to the end of the game, invading both GS and Lego, finishing off Vox, and enjoying an end game together. Glory of Role Playing War!!!

Perhaps CALF should be changed to: Consul's Aid to Lies and Formulations.

	14-07-2003 19:11									#261
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From Togas:

quote: The following is too long for a PM. Please post this into your forum: It is with great honor and promise that we send to you this second draft of our Pact. I have seen to it that the requests of Unorthodox have been met, however, if something is not to your liking, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will quickly make the necessary adjustments. To say that this pact represents our desires for a long term alliance is an understatment. We believe an arrangement like this is vital to our long term survival and also believe that this arrangement may well lead to our ultimate victory in this game. Without an ally my nation (and your nation as well) cannot ever hope to defeat the great nations of Neu Demogyptica, Legoland, and Gathering Storm. Together, however, we can take them down one by one until only the two of us are left. At that point, we fully recognize that our nations may go to war to decide which of us shall ultimately prevail ... or not. At that point it will be for US to determine how this game ends, we alone shall decide our fates, no other nation can stand against us if we stand united! Therefore, it is with great pride and excitement that I await your signature on this bold and historic treaty. Furthermore, to symbolize this great merger of might and resources, I offer to you my most attractive daughter Marisa Sophia Togas, a young, beautiful woman who has recently turned 19. She is of noble blood, the daughter of the King. Her mother is of the Libre family, a wealthy and respected noble family of the highest order in Spain. You do not need to accept this proposal to accept this Pact, however, if you would entertain the proposal and give us an answer we would be pleased to also send over a dowery to not only cover your expenses in the wedding but to also ensure that she is well cared for. Spanish - Glory of War Defense Pact Statement of Purpose This is an alliance between the nations of Spain and the Glory of War. It is a general mutual-defence agreement, a non-aggression pact, a non-settlement agreement, and a full military alliance upon the event of either party going to war. Article I Definition of established territory The territory of Spain is defined as all land inside Spain's cultural borders and all lands on the continent named Bob south of the Spanish city of Toledo. The territory of the Glory of War is defined as all land inside China's cultural borders, all lands on the continent named Bob north of the Glory of War city of Tatung, and all lands on the island which has the cities of Camulodunum and Zenophobia. Article II Redefinition of the territory The definition of the territory of both parties may be changed if: New settlements, that are outside of the land defined in Article I, are founded; New territory, that is outside of the land defined in Article I, is aquired in any way; Territory, that is part of the land defined in Article I, is lost in any way. Territory is taken and redistributed via Article III, V, or VI. Or if each of the parties agrees to a new definition of their territory. Article III Causes that activate the mutual-defense pact If another nation moves military forces into the land that is defined in Article I, while the party that claims this land has informed an official of the offending nation that they claim those lands, both the offended party and the other party in the treaty will declare war on the offending nation if the party that claims these lands requests this. If another nation attacks any units or cities belonging to a party to this treaty or pillages any improvements within the territory of a party to this treaty, the offended party and the other party to this treaty will declare war on the offending party if the offended party requests this. Article IV Non-settlement & Non-agression ageement Neither party shall settle in the territory that the other party has claimed to be his as stated in Article I or under other provisions of this treaty. Neither party shall enter the claimed territory of the other party without prior approval. Should one party request that the units of the other party move or leave their territory, after entry has been previously granted, the other party shall comply as quickly and reasonably as possible. Neither party shall declare war on the other, attack the units of the other, or enter the cultural borders of the other without express permission. Neither party shall commit espionage against the other. Article V Full Military Alliance Upon the invocation of Article III, this Article shall be called into action and war shall be declared on an enemy by both parties. This article may also be called into action upon the agreement of both parties on a common enemy. Once war has begun, both parties shall share all resources and luxuries with each other, and shall gift to the other team all technologies that the other party does not posess. A full tech alliance will be in place for the duration of the war, and both parties shall have an obligation to fullfill their part of the tech alliance. Once war has begun and until it ends by mutual agreement, both parties are obligated to provide the positions of all military forces in the territory of the enemy, the theatre of war, or on route to the enemy to the other party in order to improve military coordination between the parties. Once war with the enemy has begun and until it ends by mutual agreement, both parties are responsible to keep each other informed of where their military forces will be heading in the coming turns and specifically what cities or other strongholds of the enemy they will be assaulting. Once war has begun and until it ends by mutual agreement, both parties shall share their world maps with one another. Article V Duration of the Treaty The Treaty shall last at least 100 turns, starting in the turn in which it has been signed by both parties, and can be canceled after that time by either party only with 10 turns prior notice. So long as neither party cancels this treaty, it remains in effect. Article VI Settlement of any war In the case of any war where the alliance has been activated and both parties are at war with another nation, the parties shall jointly agree to any terms for ending the war and no separate peace treaties shall be made between a party and the enemy. Any and all additions to the territory of either power as defined in Article I shall be temporarily agreed to before the end of a war, and shall be altered at the end of the war to conform to the agreement of permanent borders as negotiated by both parties. At the end of the war Article I shall be amended to fully describe the new territory of each of the parties. Should the parties enter into a war against Neu Demogyptica, the following additional term shall come into effect: The total territory of the continent of Bob shall be divided 50/50 between both parties. This division shall happen via negotiations during the war, and shall be enacted peacefully after the war is concluded. Additionally, Glory of War is to be given land that holds spice, gems, and iron as a part of its new territory. Article VII Nondisclosure For the duration of this Pact, neither party shall disclose any part of the terms of this agreement to any other party. Publicly, both parties shall state that any military cooperation was "bought" and/or was the result of a temporary alliance. Both parties recognize the distinct advantage gained through this Pact and recognize that the other nations would not be pleased to learn of it. Signed, Togas, King of the Republic of Spain. Signed,

I don't want to delay this turn too much...

	14-07-2003 19:18									#262
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Can we declare war as soon as RP passes the save along?

	14-07-2003 19:52									#263
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Yeah... should I make the statement?

quote: The Glory of War formally declares war on Spain. Now on a lighter note: Top Ten Reasons to Kick the Role out of Roleplay. 10) They don't shower and stink up the whole continent. 9) The whole "we claim this entire half of the continent and you have to share the smaller half with the other two northern civs" fiasco. 8) They publicly chastised us for intimidating Vox to back off Bob, when they did the EXACT same thing to us, ND, and Lux. 7) They are hogging 75% of the entire world's supply of luxuries. 6) We're "Agents of Chaos" and this Spanish Inquistion crap seems a tad to orderly. 5) There's a least one lawyer on their team, need we say more? 4) ND can offer us German Beer, Roleplay can offer us squid, no contest. 3) They promised military support to Lux and Vox and left both hanging high and dry. 2) They weasel, lie, manipulate, and plot against all civs and are pure evil incarnate. My bad, I see I already covered the lawyer bit. AND FINALLY THE NUMBER ONE REASON TO WIPE OUT ROLEPLAY.... 1) We ain't called the GLORY OF WAR for nothing!

Some of them might need a slight re-write for security purposes...

6) The Spainish Inquisition is too orderly for our chaotic tastes.

8) Hmm... for this one I have no idea when Ghengis is talking about... any ideas for a rewrite?

	14-07-2003 20:05									#264
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Leave 8.

That is old stuff. They *****ed when we bought the city.

6) With the death of Aidun I, it is our duty to ensure The Spanish Inquisition reaches new heights.

	14-07-2003 20:06									#265
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ok...

they 'complained like a female dog' when we bought the city

	14-07-2003 20:22									#266
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How about adding this one in there somewhere:

Marisa Sophia Togas, sent in an offer of marriage to Panzer, was nothing other than a common whore sent to spread disease throughout the GoW government.

	14-07-2003 20:31									#267
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx How about adding this one in there somewhere: Marisa Sophia Togas, sent in an offer of marriage to Panzer, was nothing other than a common whore sent to spread disease throughout the GoW government.

But I like the original #6. It's funny and the only ones who will get it will be us. That was almost half a year ago and they won't remember it. If they do we simply tell them we overheard them say it in the chatrooms, I'm sure they alluded to us as agents of chaos. We could also say that ND told us in negotiations that Roleplay warned them that we are agents of chaos and not to be trusted. All perfectly innocent.

Dammit, I want to throw those words back into MWIA's face!

I think you should post the top ten as they were originally typed, with the Hippie Nazi #1 and alternate #1 as a quote. Everyone will realize I typed it and I will be the one taking the backlash, not necessarily GoW.


UnOrthOdOx and us need to create a SPECIAL SPIN issue over the war.
Let's see if Borc, Darekill, Shiber, Betahound and some other GS/ND/GoW people will add some write ups and then post it all at once.

It would piss the crap out of Roleplay to suddenly be faced with the reality that virtually the WHOLE game has been in on this.

	14-07-2003 23:32									#268
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I can make a war edition...sure.

I want the official statement out first, though. Or, whoever posts the official statement, call the thread "S.P.I.N. special war edition"

	14-07-2003 23:35									#269
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Oh and to add to the top 10:

RP members are discourteous of other's threads and the agreed rules by which they were made, unable to refrain from polluting even the fun threads such as S.P.I.N. with their mindless drivel

	15-07-2003 00:12									#270
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Have you thought about starting a SPIN website? We could do this for RL stuff too.