11-04-2003 00:40									#211
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Turn 105 = 470bc with my calculations. About 14 turns away. Of course, we will need to delay with this deal. We could delay for a while, but then maybe we just tell RP 'no'. This, of course, brings up the issue of when are we going to start researching chivalry. This can start as soon as we get feudalism from GS, which can be in 2 turns if we give GS 100g + 5 gpt accepted nest turn. We are having a chat with ND on Monday? Good. We need to talk about timing, as well as splitting the continent once we have finished Roleplay.

I could live with giving GS 100g but I really am getting sick of being the other teams' Sugar Daddy.

	11-04-2003 01:32									#212
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I could live with giving GS 100g but I really am getting sick of being the other teams' Sugar Daddy.

I can live with that...

	11-04-2003 03:58									#213
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My recommendation as a plausable excuse for not attacking ND with RP.

1. We wont have enough units.

2. It cannot be guaranteed that ND wont have Fuedalism.
Our horsemen will not be able to do any damage against fortifies Pikes.

3. As part of a "secret" agreement with ND, which involved the iron trade, and the defense of our borders from Vox, we signed a NAP with ND which will expire on year ?????
ie...we agreed to increase our presense on the Vox shoreline, and leave our boders cities less defended, if ND agreed to not attack.
Its a lie, but its plausable, and it will allow us have a decent excuse to not join RP in a war.

Ask RP what other options...perhaps getting Lego involved ? He may tell us that he has already got their support ???

Regs

	11-04-2003 05:39									#214
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This is an unofficial note from GodKing we don't have to officially respond to anything.

	02-05-2003 18:30									#215
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From Roleplay:

quote: Jason, Why do you keep offering your WM to us and not hitting accept? Please send a message along with the save to explain because Master Zen says he doesn't know why you're doing it either. We really need that map. I think you're offering it to help us get to Estonia faster. Right? Also, we've finished "researching" Feudalism now, so please offer it to us under the table and we'll send you 75g for it. We need to upgrade pikes before sending them to Estonia. --Togas

They still aren't offering us anything for it.

	02-05-2003 20:02									#216
	Put an end to popups!

Screw them...

They're not sending squat to Estonia and if they do it will be a truly token force which will not be able to influence anything.

It's a shame my phone-line got cut and I can't chat with them, I hope to get the line back tonight or tomorrow at the latest.

	03-05-2003 07:35									#217
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quote: Also, we've finished "researching" Feudalism now, so please offer it to us under the table and we'll send you 75g for it. We need to upgrade pikes before sending them to Estonia. --Togas

so we're doing this because they will get it anyways, and we'll get more $?

	03-05-2003 07:40									#218
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The original deal was 75g. They are CRAZY if they think we would even consider offering it at the same price so many turns earlier.

I really want to send them off to hell but since I am buddies with Togas and BF, I don't want to sound like a jerk as it will be a dead giveaway that we're really not that nice

	23-05-2003 21:07									#219
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Unofficial chat with RP last night, it was me, and on their side Togas, BigFree and E_T

quote: Session Start: Thu May 22 23:11:50 2003 Session Ident: #GoW [23:11] * Now talking in #GoW [23:37] * Togas has joined #GoW [23:39] [MasterZen] I invited BF too [23:39] [Togas] good [23:39] [MasterZen] he's coming.. [23:39] * BigFree has joined #GoW [23:39] [MasterZen] cool, the whole FAMily is here [23:40] [MasterZen] ok, here's the deal boyz: [23:40] [BigFree] you mean the tow guys who robbved me! [23:40] [MasterZen] nah, I think you are MISconfused :P [23:41] [MasterZen] as I was saying, we are shortly to committ troops against GS [23:41] [MasterZen] as was agreed upon [23:41] [MasterZen] we would just like to know... [23:42] [MasterZen] 1) if you are still committed and if so, when [23:42] [MasterZen] 2) if you would be willing to buy our map which we offered this turn [23:44] [Togas] We're committed, but we have 2 problems: [23:44] [Togas] 1) We have no Feudalism [23:44] [Togas] and cannot build or upgrade or units yet [23:44] [Togas] 2) We have no short path across, and are going to have to do a galley swap and hope that 1 doesn't sink [23:44] [MasterZen] is the galley on its way? [23:44] [Togas] other than those problems, we're in, our next galley is 2 turns away, we continue to make more [23:45] [Togas] we have 1 loaded galley [23:45] [Togas] BUT he needs a buddy to help him do the galley shuffle [23:46] [MasterZen] I'm checking the map right now... [23:47] [Togas] Vox sent us a screenshot [23:47] [Togas] we couldn't find any place to cross. We triple-checked. [23:47] [MasterZen] why just a screenshot? why didn't they trade the whole map? [23:48] [Togas] no idea [23:49] [MasterZen] what part of the map did they send you? [23:50] [BigFree] BH said he wouod have to discuss with team [23:50] [BigFree] he sent us a good portion of GS territory with units on it. [23:50] [BigFree] we can seel it to you? [23:51] [BigFree] *sell [23:51] [MasterZen] no need but thanks [23:52] [BigFree] so 3? turns from Feud, right? [23:52] * E_T1 has joined #GoW [23:53] [MasterZen] I believe it's actually 1 or 2 [23:53] [BigFree] ) [23:53] [Togas] good [23:54] [MasterZen] as for our map, you understand we have probably the most complete map of any civ.. [23:54] [BigFree] Didn't the eclipse cause time to jump forwards anyways? ) [23:54] [MasterZen] hahaha [23:54] [BigFree] so what are you asking for it [23:54] [MasterZen] how much or what would you give for it? [23:54] [Togas] our WM [23:54] [BigFree] and Monarchy [23:55] [MasterZen] mm... any other tech you wish to bargain for? [23:55] [BigFree] CB? [23:55] [BigFree] or TW [23:55] [MasterZen] hahahaha [23:55] [MasterZen] do you have Pottery? [23:55] [Togas] What, you think we have tech? [23:55] [MasterZen] I'd kill for Pottery.. [23:56] [MasterZen] no, but doesn't hurt to ask... are you researching? [23:56] [BigFree] We can promise you Chiv [23:56] [BigFree] in about 100 turns or so [23:56] [MasterZen] umm... you need Feud for that [23:56] [MasterZen] hahaha [23:56] [Togas] we're not researching until we get Feud. [23:56] [Togas] no point [23:56] [MasterZen] so then it all comes down to cold hard cash [23:57] [BigFree] or Monarchy [23:57] [BigFree] or our lovely map [23:57] [BigFree] or some screens shots [23:57] [MasterZen] which probably has nothing we don't already know... [23:57] [BigFree] or a picture of the new queen [23:57] [MasterZen] is she naked? [23:57] [BigFree] ) [23:57] [BigFree] Hey, shey my daughter, watch your mouth [23:58] [MasterZen] nah, I don't like pictures of women with too many clothes on... [23:58] [BigFree] We can spy on ND for you [23:59] [MasterZen] we already have Mata Hari doing that for us... [23:59] [BigFree] I think we have more luxeries than you do; so we may be favorable to you in the future with some of those luxeries, we'd give you a really good price. [00:00] [MasterZen] how bout 100gpt? [00:00] [BigFree] .1 gpt would be fine [00:00] [MasterZen] hahaha [00:01] [BigFree] we can't give you money and upgrade for the war on GS [00:01] [MasterZen] seriously now, how much $$ would you be willing to give for our nice Rand McNally world map? [00:01] [Togas] 0 [00:01] [BigFree] Togas, lets offer something [00:02] [Togas] 0 [00:02] [Togas] I'm dead serious [00:02] [BigFree] I offer... [00:02] [BigFree] 1 [00:02] [BigFree] at least [00:02] [BigFree] so you can say you came away with something [00:02] [BigFree] ) [00:03] [MasterZen] why on earth would we give you our juicy map in exchange for yours? [00:03] [Togas] We'll have to owe you a favor because right now we just paid those leeches the Legolanders off for their old tech, we're paying GPT to Vox for old tech, and we have spearmen that need upgrades. [00:04] [Togas] I'd love to have your map. It'll help us with the war, but this is not a good time to try to get blood from a stone. [00:04] [MasterZen] well then perhaps we'll bring up the offer at a future time? [00:04] [Togas] We are buying Feud from you guys and will be buying Chivalry as well [00:04] [BigFree] If it's that important to you to get somethin big for it, then fine [00:04] [Togas] how much gold do you think we have? [00:05] [MasterZen] considering you aren't researching, i'd say you have some under the pillow.. [00:05] [BigFree] I had to hock my horse carriage the ohter day...sheesh [00:05] [MasterZen] haha [00:06] [BigFree] lego is getting a bif chunk [00:06] [MasterZen] you could've gotten old techs from us... :P [00:06] [Togas] our unit upkeep is 23gpt. We have an 8gpt deal with Vox, and we just gave those jewish bastards from Legoland 50gs we owed them (due to a defered payment) [00:06] [MasterZen] "jewish bastards"? that's new... [00:07] [Togas] we can buy Feud and upgrade 2 pikes, then we're broke. [00:09] [MasterZen] I assume those are the pikes you're planning to send to Vox? [00:10] [Togas] the spears have been sitting in our barracks for 6 turns now. [00:10] [BigFree] yes, they are MZ [00:10] [MasterZen] we are sending 2 pikes and 2 med infs (I think...) [00:11] [MasterZen] I'd rather send more pikes though... pillaging will do wonders [00:11] [BigFree] nice, so will we [00:11] [Togas] Sorry to seem so harsh, but I just went through this with Legoland and their 50g issues, and Vox keeps asking us to donate more money. [00:14] [MasterZen] they need it badly.. [00:14] [MasterZen] to quote Yamamoto: "they awakened a sleeping giant" [00:15] [E_T1] and they will pay for it [00:15] [E_T1] we tryed to get them to get Monarhy atleast before they attacked, but they wouldn't listen [00:16] [MasterZen] yes, if they had gotten their GA with anything other than despotism, it would have been much better [00:16] [E_T1] we noticed that they just cut their Iron again, to make warriors [00:18] [MasterZen] yes they did [00:18] [MasterZen] hence the need for more $$ [00:19] [BigFree] Our main source of income is Barbs; that's sad. [00:20] [MasterZen] hehe [00:21] [MasterZen] hey, those barbs come in handy sometimes... [00:21] [BigFree] we survive off of them, no kidding! [00:22] [MasterZen] well then, well offer you the map later on, see if you have a little more dough.. [00:24] [MasterZen] well, I guess this is all for tonight, anything else you guys want to bring up? [00:25] [BigFree] no, we are sad that are allies cant help us out right now... [00:25] [MasterZen] help us with what? [00:26] [BigFree] we had hoped you see to it that we could share, since in the future you will likely want something from us in return. [00:26] [BigFree] you WM will help us better plan for the war on GS [00:26] * E_T1 is now known as E_Tsleepi [00:26] [Togas] we're happy to trade favors [00:27] [BigFree] Like I said earlier about the luxeries..... [00:27] [MasterZen] didn't you say you have a screenshot? [00:27] [BigFree] yes [00:27] [BigFree] but not complete [00:27] [MasterZen] I mean, it was a pain to get the map we have, we can't just give it out like that [00:27] [BigFree] sure [00:28] [BigFree] it will be a pain for us to hook up all those luxeries too though. [00:28] [MasterZen] if we give you our map, you'll have lego to trade to eventually, so it's more of a bonus than you'll admit [00:29] [BigFree] I thought GoW and RP were in this for the long haul; first GS then ND. [00:29] [Togas] we already have a map of the north Lego bay [00:29] [Togas] Ghengis gave it to us eons ago, with Panama and Legopolis [00:30] [MasterZen] but do you have a route mapped out to those cities? [00:30] [Togas] yes [00:30] [Togas] we can see your island, too [00:30] [Togas] Zenophobia and that other one [00:31] [Togas] the ones that used to be Taiwan and Taipai [00:31] [MasterZen] I can't even pronounce it... [00:31] [BigFree] LoL [00:31] [MasterZen] it was UnOrthO's idea :P [00:31] [Togas] [00:31] [Togas] we made a deal with GF a long time ago that the first one of us to get Vox's WM, would give the WM to the other [00:32] [Togas] when he got Vox's WM and traded us, it included North Legoland and the GoW west island [00:32] [BigFree] I should find that agreement [00:32] [MasterZen] well that's the problem with getting here late, I don't know all of the deals you guys might have made [00:32] [BigFree] I thik it includes more proposals about map exchanges that have npt been carried out. [00:32] [Togas] we were just hoping to get the south side of Estonia, where GS is, because we don't have that yet and Vox didn't have it in their screenshots [00:33] [Togas] and we know you guys were exploring that area, right? [00:33] [MasterZen] so then why did you say you doublechecked routes to GS and found none? [00:33] [BigFree] because we couldn't see any [00:33] [Togas] we can't see any [00:33] [BigFree] to many balck tiles [00:34] [BigFree] we can "estimate" at best [00:34] [MasterZen] you don't need to doublecheck black tiles to find out if there's a way or not.. [00:34] [MasterZen] we have a nice piece of GS mapped out... yummy [00:34] [BigFree] we were extimating, based upon knowlege of how civ raws maps [00:35] [Togas] unless it curves in a weird way back to us, because our continent slopes South-west [00:35] [Togas] hell, if you see something on there we can use to get to GS faster, please tell us. [00:35] [BigFree] I'm glad you got a "yummy", but unless you share with us, that yummy will not do you anyfavors against GS [00:36] [BigFree] RP can [00:36] [BigFree] we need a direct-route to GS [00:36] [BigFree] will or will not you map show that? [00:37] [MasterZen] there most likely isn't [00:37] [MasterZen] I told you a few weeks back [00:37] [BigFree] "most likely"??? can you not look at the map and tell us for certain? [00:37] [BigFree] I though you had a "yummY" map? [00:38] [MasterZen] I do have a yummy map :P [00:38] [MasterZen] except there's a 90% chance of not being a route [00:38] [BigFree] Sounds like a bolgna sandwhich to me! [00:39] [MasterZen] but you'll need it regardless, to know where to do the galley switch [00:39] [Togas] We have a point already [00:39] [Togas] if you look at our map, you can see the eastern most point of the continet [00:39] [MasterZen] lemme re-load.. [00:40] [BigFree] going to play FAM, brb [00:40] [Togas] there's a peninsula there, we'll use it, already talked to Vox about it [00:41] [MasterZen] the peninsula with the hill? [00:43] [Togas] yes [00:43] [MasterZen] ok [00:45] * E_Tsleepi has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [00:46] [MasterZen] I have to idle... work to do [00:46] [Togas] gotcha

	23-05-2003 21:18									#220
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Well, basically the argument they gave was they were strapped for cash and couldn't afford anything. They offered to give us Monarchy which frankly I see no use in getting.

According to this they paid 50g to Lego for some tech deal, and have an 8gpt deal with Vox financing their war effort (and getting some old techs in return). They suppoosedly only have money for upgrading 2 pikes


Note that I might have caught them in a little lie:

- First they said that Vox sent them some screenshots with "a good portion of GS territory with units on it".

- Then they said they "were just hoping to get the south side of Estonia, where GS is, because we don't have that yet and Vox didn't have it in their screenshots"



anyway, no deal (yet)

	24-05-2003 00:44									#221
	Put an end to popups!

From 510 BC thread:

quote: Do you want me to replay the turn without accepting the world map trade offer from RP? I don't think it would hurt, seeing as we want them to send troops. I won't send the save game on until I get an answer...

No one answered, so I sent the save game on. We will have to trust RP not to accept it (they may have already done so).

Moral: If Panzer asks a question, answer!!

	24-05-2003 00:57									#222
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so you sent them our world map too?

	24-05-2003 14:25									#223
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Somehow, I dont think they will decline the offer, if we sent our map as accepted

From what I read..and from Beta's last email... RP are more informed and have better maps than us anyway.

RP just wanted a Lego update.

So we lost a few gold..RP wasnt going to give us any anyway.

My concern, is RP's offer of minimal force...that is hardly going to scratch GS.

So it looks like we will still be facing the full army of RP.
Plus... they expect fuedalsism from us in a couple of rounds.

I dont want them to have it.

	24-05-2003 19:06									#224
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yeah, sorry.

I guess I forgot to specify that I had accepted WM for WM in the turn thread. I'll be sure to do so in the future.

	31-05-2003 13:30									#225
	Master Zen at his worst :evil: Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, since during the ND chat we had the unexpected pleasure of having that ****ing snoop mrmitchell pop up for a second in our room before I kicked him out and set a password, I decided to work up a little ruse.

This is from the chat yesterday at noon:

quote: [13:49] [Togas] btw, what happened to your Iron? [13:49] [MasterZen] I'm a one-man state department [13:49] [MasterZen] what iron? [13:49] [Togas] GoW [13:49] [MasterZen] re-negotiating it [13:49] [Togas] we have an extra source if that doesn't work out [13:49] [MasterZen] ok, thanks [13:50] [MasterZen] btw, I had a chat with ND yesterday [13:50] [Togas] really? [13:50] [MasterZen] yes, tried to convince them to joining the GS war [13:50] [Togas] those guys don't seem very active to me [13:50] [MasterZen] I was going to tell you guys last night but with all the PBEM trash talking I forgot :P [13:51] [Togas] I get the feeling they declined [13:51] [MasterZen] well, not really [13:51] [MasterZen] they say they will bring it up with the team but showed some interest for the medium/long run [13:51] [Togas] there's not much they can do [13:52] [Togas] they have only 1 port, wrong side of the continent [13:52] [Togas] maybe send Vox some cash [13:52] [MasterZen] that's why they said long-termn [13:52] [Togas] I wonder if they plan to build an eastern port [13:53] [MasterZen] we kinda mingled with the idea of gifting Port Isolation between us to ferry troops [13:53] [Togas] not bad [13:53] [MasterZen] of course, we would have to see an HONESTLY good intention [13:54] [Togas] Darekill used to complain about that port, saying it was ND's land... [13:54] [MasterZen] for all we know, they can just use that as an excuse to move troops and attack us from the east [13:54] [MasterZen] Darekill thinks Bob is ND's land [13:54] [Togas] I have no idea what ND is doing, but they're not doing it very well, their score is dropping. They're a republic with 1 luxury [13:55] [MasterZen] but they were rather cordial [13:55] [Togas] they always are very cordial [13:55] [MasterZen] and a bunch of them showed up too, which makes me think they might take it seriously [13:55] [Togas] afk a min. My lunch just arrived. [13:56] [MasterZen] ok

So, basically I told him that the chat was to try and get ND to enter the GS war with us so they don't think something suspicious is going on.

	31-05-2003 13:33									#226
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and...oh yes, I have everything planned out:

Just in case RP talks to ND about this chat, I already e-mailed Borc shortly after:

quote: Hello Borc! If you remember, yesterday during the chat, mrmitchell, a RP member, entered our chat room for a moment before I kicked him out. It is obvious he saw the list of ND people there, so in order for them not to be suspicious, have told Togas that we had a chat yesterday to discuss the possibility of ND joining the war against GS. I told him that we suppossedly discussed the possibility of gifting Port Isolation to ND to ferry troops to the other side. Of course, all of this is fake, I just wanted to warn you just in case someone from RP asks about our chat. Next time I will have the chat password protected to avoid these kinds of problems. As usuall, the password will be "Dtrategy" Best regards -Master Zen

To which he answered:

quote: Hello Master Zen! No problem. I post your message in our forum so we are prepared to give RP the right answers if they ask us about this. Good job! Thanks! Borc

It better work...

	06-06-2003 22:33									#227
	Tired of ads?

Just something funny posted in the main forum:

quote: Originally posted by dejon I'm hoping that one outcome from this thread will be similar to what happened between RP and GoW in the early ancient age... After some heated confrontations where members from both sides got things off their chest and beat their chests a little, we learned each others' diplomatic style, everyone calmed down, and we started getting deals done. Let's see if we can turn this: Into this:

:lol

We turned this:
into this:

ie: our upcoming invasion

	07-06-2003 03:35									#228
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




geez, I'm really gonna feel bad about this....


umm... nah, not really...

	11-07-2003 00:17									#229
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

From Togas via email:

quote: Panzer & MZ, We already have the map, and don't need another exchange. Thanks Given the current tensions and drama that has happened as of late, we ask that GoW sign this agreement. It is the same agreement we signed many turns ago, just extended and adding in Gathering Storm: DEFENSE PACT BETWEEN THE GLORY OF WAR AND SPAIN: 1) In the event that a party to this agreement is attacked by Neu Demoglyptica and/or Gathering Storm, the other party shall immediately declare war on Neu Demoglyptica and shall commit the majority of their military towards the conquest or destruction of Neu Demoglyptica. 2) Once the war has begun the leaders of both nations shall meet, exchange combat and spy information, and attempt to cooperate as much as possible in the joint war effort. 3) Neither party may negotiate a separate peace with the enemy. Peace must be agreed on by both parties. 4) This pact shall last until 500AD.

MZ said he would accept this tonight without the mention of GS. Therefore we don't need to ask ND to delay, and ND doesn't want to anyways.

	11-07-2003 00:27									#230
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Whoa whoa whoa


Are we just flat out lying now?

That's fine, just let me know...

This will seriously piss off GS. WE WILL STILL BREAK THIS WHEN ND ATTACKS, EVEN IF WE DON'T TECHNICALLY WHEN WE ATTACK.

Does anyone mind if I aproach one or more RP team members as a friend and fish for info by playing dumb?

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 11-07-2003 at 00:32

	11-07-2003 04:56									#231
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So..

If GS attacks, then we have to attack ND ?
Send this back, and ask Togas to reword it a little better.

When we get the next copy, tell them we are still discussing the GS inclusion.
We are polling it, and it will take 3 days.

After three days, tell them no, because we have worked hard at repairing our relations with GS, and don’t want this specifically included, as it will piss them off.

Then tell him the Brotherhood of Bob agreement covers it anyway, and if RP plans on sending their units to Little Bob, and intimidating GS to attack them, then we don’t want it included.

Then tell them that the time length is a problem. 500ad is just way too long. We want an option to get out of the agreement with a 5 turn warning.

Then tell them that 500ad is just too long anyway.

Then tell them that we no longer think that the agreement is no longer equitable. If we attack ND, we will lose our iron. This means we cannot build replacement riders. Any units we lose, cannot be replaced, and will leave us disadvantaged.
We want RP iron included in the deal... send it back for a rewrite.

Then tell them that even if RP promises their iron, what happens if it can’t get through because of a ND naval blockade? Tell them we want an exclusion clause that if we cant get iron, then we do not have to attack.

All of the above can take 3-4 weeks to negotiate. I think we should use delay tactics.

	11-07-2003 05:54									#232
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Agreed.

	11-07-2003 20:00									#233
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

UnOrthOdOx's crazy fever and medication induced plans part II:

Well...

MZ, you want to try the ol' good cop, bad cop routine?

I sent this to Togas last night, basing the wording on what MrWIA, Arnelos, and GK have let slip (RP thinks I am the only sane one on our team...??? ) :

quote: Just to be sure, this is not official in any way. What is going on? I admit that my time on the PTW game has been limited. Ok, perhaps that is a bit of an understatement. But, what is going on here? Last thing I knew we were best friends, now I see what could amount to threats comming from you guys. What happened? I have only really been involved with our relations to GS, so am not all caught up on what has happened with you guys. I am trying to go through the thread now, but there may be holes. Why did I choose GS? Well, the take 24 hour + to make a decision team, aka GS, fits my schedule better than needing to hold chats like the others. Anyway, let me know what's going on, apparantly I need to involve myself here as well, and soon by the looks of things.

Togas caught me on AIM last night. Couldn't log (at least I don't know how to...)

Anyway, I wasn't really ready for anything, so while on the fly, I decided: I convinced him that you and I do not get along at all and are constantly arguing over how to handle teams. This has led to our splitting of teams and responsibilities. I told him I was concerned about the sudden hostile language between our teams and would look into it.

Perhaps, just perhaps this will work:

I send him a PM...

In it I lay out the following:

ND bullied us for Chiv (nd already stated as much). Part of this was 10 turns where we could not sell it to RP.

Next, after we sold to GS on a fair trade, GS absolutely refuse to consider a NAP, Will not commit to trading research in the future, and added a 1 turn cancellation clause to a Lux trade after it was already signed. (nothing like using the truth to cloud the truth)

Third, we received info that RP may be in this apparant alliance and GoW was going to be the next team to go out of the game. We assumed not trading would either confirm or deny this by RP's actions. We had the assumption that RP's strategy was MI and Pikes anyway, not knights, and would use this Chiv trade deal as an excuse to start this grand alliance against GoW. Seems to be shaping up that way so far.

Fourth. Ask IF they are really our friends, when can they declare war on ND, when can they attack, and with how much. We want them to go first since we are sure ND is preparing the north. We will wait to see if they do as proof of their friendship, otherwise we are building up for a defense to inflict as much harm as possible before we go out.

	12-07-2003 00:46									#234
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Confirmed go ahead from both MZ and Panzer. Trying for quick chat for possible information despite the original intent is now lost.

Yes, we are an awefull team, none of us agree, and we are constantly bickering...and you all hate me for this.

In light of one of my favorite Pulp Fiction Characters, I name this operation: The Clouded Mind Sees Nothing.

(ten points for the reference)

quote: I know you prefer chats. Would it be possible tonight sometime? I've got the whole thing down now. I get home at 4:00 PM Mountain time. Can you chat then? Just to have you know I am creating allot of discontent in the GoW forum even trying to take over relation with you guys. I don't want to see everything we've worked for fall apart though. UnOrthOdOx.

	12-07-2003 00:48									#235
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I was thinking... what if Unorthodox 'accidently' posted a vote of no confidence on Master Zen in the public forum? It might reinforce some of the stuff you've been feeding them.

	12-07-2003 00:50									#236
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

OH dear god I thought I was evil!!!!

	12-07-2003 00:57									#237
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That was quick!

quote: Unortho, I should be free to chat around that time (I think it's 3pm PST), however, I think I should stress that I do not believe that MasterZen is doing a bad job. We aren't asking for a new ambassador to be appointed unless, of course, what he's telling us is just a bunch of B.S. and it's not the policy or decisions of your team. It appears (at least from what I've been told) that GoW has changed it's policy towards us. We are no longer being treated as allies and friends, nor are we being treated as "just another customer." We're being shafted in this Chivalry deal for whatever paranoid reasons or schemes GoW has decided, internally. And I'm not sure how changing the messanger is going to change that fact. --Togas

PM operation: The Sun is Shining...

quote: Yes, I can see your confusion. It is how we are organized. Our ambassadors have full and complete control over the teams they visit. They are not technically required to poll on decisions, though it is encouraged. I am guessing this change happened around the time GF left, am I right? This is when MZ gained full control over you guys... All will be explained in an hour or so.

	12-07-2003 01:03									#238
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I love this! continue, continue....

	12-07-2003 01:08									#239
	Put an end to popups!

Operation: ...But the Ice is Slippery....

quote: I have personally been shocked and concerned with recent actions taken by Master Zen lately. I hereby call for a No-confidence vote on Master Zen as the Roleplay Ambassador and propose that I take his place for the duration of the next month. Poll will be open for 3 days, Options Yes No Abstain

To be 'misplaced' in public

	12-07-2003 01:11									#240
	Increase Your PM Length

Make sure you edit it realistically after a while to make it look genuine