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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:25
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quote:
I think that you missed the sarcasm, Japher. |
No. I got it.
quote:
Still, do you have a better recipe for helping Iraq win the war? If itīs plausible, we can talk. |
What war? If there is a war I wouldn't want Iraq to win and wouldn't mind the US plowing through those idiots to win.
I do however have a different stance on how to prevent it. I feel that these ppl think they are protesting the aggressor, when IMO it is Iraq that is the aggressor. Nonetheless protesting is a silly way to get what you want. Most of the time people in power just see it as whines and not as actual complaints. Instead of speaking out for what they don't like they should instead focus on what they do like.
Example: People protest agains nuclear power. It is dirty, dangerous, and evil and it should be eliminated. That is the general consensus of those who protest it. What about those who support it? They look at ways to make it less dirty and dangerous, and therefore less evil. In the end you no longer see these people who are against because the issues have changed. They now move on to saving the whales thinking they had a hand in changing it, when the actually did not.
I know, a lot of people feel that by complaining about something more attention will be drawn to fix it. Yet, it is those who support something that actually get the job fixed. Instead of a supporting a ban on something one should be supporting the fix of something.
Back to the Iraq case. The problem is everyone is fearing war and they don't want it. The US says that if Iraq does bend to their wishes that their will be a war so the people protest the US. No one bothers to asks themselves why the US wants this war. Oil, broken treaties, GW cleaning up daddies mess, blah, blah, blah... So they all head to Iraq to stand against the US (traitors) or the demonstrate in the US against the impending decision.
I see signs that say "No to War" and other clever things. What don't I see signs that "Give Peace A Chance" like I use to. Why don't I see signs that say "Cooperate Sadam... Please" or "We can work this out"? Why is the attack on the US why is the attack on the side that did uphold their end of the cease fire? Oil?
As I see it their are several options:
1. War, and that would suck
2. The US leaves them alone, and that will eventually suck
3. Sadam cooperating... why can't that work?
Why can't he live up to a deal he made several years ago? If he would just do as he was asked, and what he agreed to do then no one will get hurt and everyone will be the better.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Example: People protest agains nuclear power. It is dirty, dangerous, and evil and it should be eliminated. That is the general consensus of those who protest it. What about those who support it? They look at ways to make it less dirty and dangerous, and therefore less evil. In the end you no longer see these people who are against because the issues have changed. They now move on to saving the whales thinking they had a hand in changing it, when the actually did not. |
 Yes, because of course we know that corporations and the rich always do things for the betterment of mankind when there is no profit motive involved. No protests, no incentive to clean nuclear power up.
According Nixon, the massive demos in 1969 led him to change his mind about nuking North Vietnam. He probably wouldn't have done it anyway, but the half million people marching against the war convinced him it would have been political suicide.
No, could you please explain to me how Iraq is an aggressor against the United States?
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:25
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quote:
No, could you please explain to me how Iraq is an aggressor against the United States? |
That iss not my intention, nor do I want to get into that. Reasons for and against war can be argued until one is blue in the face without either side submitting.
What I was only trying to get at was that protesting in general is, IMO, a waste of breath; there are better ways to get what you want done then by just whinning about it.
quote:
According Nixon, the massive demos in 1969 led him to change his mind about nuking North Vietnam. He probably wouldn't have done it anyway, but the half million people marching against the war convinced him it would have been political suicide.
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This is just the kind of response of was hoping to receive. Thank you.
If you could cite some reference where they indicate Nixon's thought process behind not nuking N. Korea I would gladly read it. Yet, 0.5 million people is not really a good representation of the voting public. I must admit that that many people would make some kind of statement. I just don't think it is a big enough statement to make any kind of difference in the political arena.
---Those with something to complain about do it the loudest. Those who are completely content have nothing to say.---
I think it should be the other way around. Yet, if that were so "protests" for the war may be just too big.
The best way for those who are heading to Iraq to protest are wasting their time. They should, instead, fight their battle within the government. If it is such a valid point they are making then someone will listen.
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Meshelic
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Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:25
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OK let me clarify some things.
My father fought in the Gulf War, and was there with General Shwartzkopf when the terms of the cease-fire, and herein peace treaty were delivered and signed by the Iraqi heads of state.
The document that the IRAQI officials agreed to expressly forebade the use of flying any military jets over the no-fly zone. The Iraqi's asked if they could use helicopters to "feed the people, transport officials, etc", which Shwartzkopf agreed to. But shortly after that, the Iraqi Republican Guard were absolutely using those helicopters to assault Kurdish factions in the north (IN THE NO-FLY ZONE OF ALL PLACES), not to mention to enforce their regime of brutality.
That is one example of them disobeying a treaty they signed themselves.
Now my father is retired, and I am in the American Special Forces, a ParaRescue (equivalent to Delta Force, Rangers....but Air Force).
Have you seen any real footage out of Iraq? Did you see the picture of the 12-year old boy who apparently lost his arm from an American bomb? Israeli and American intelligence studied those pictures, along with several U.N. intelligence officials, and discovered through their research that the boy had been born WITHOUT THE ARM, a victim of Saddam's own use of chemical and biological weapons against his own people.
Two examples of lies coming from Iraq.
These westerners going to Iraq are TRAITORS, by the full definition of the term. They are aiding the enemy, and seeking to sabotage U.S./Allied interests there. They should never be allowed to return.
You, Comrade Tribune, are among those people who have obviously been fooled by all the lies. Interesting you mention Slobadan Milosovich in your quotes below the messages, think on this:
Milosovich kills a thousand or so insurrectionists, people opposed to his regime, etc whatever.
Hussein has killed, in his lifetime, well over three million people, of both Iranian, Iraqi, American, Syrian, Jordan, Israeli, Saudi nationalities. In both wars and genocides.
Milosovich is in jail for warcrimes against humanity, probably for life...
Hussein still leads a rogue nation that seeks the destruction of his neighbors and the U.S. , after 25 + years in power.
Compare and contrast. Now tell me if the US and the UK shouldn't go in there. Tell me that Saddam is a good guy. C'mon.
People like you make me sick, and help me to realize that most people out there have been fooled, duped by wackos who would rather see the destruction of life rather than the extension of it. And THAT is why the Allies must go in there and depose him.
Meshelic
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Comrade Tribune
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Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Meshelic
Milosovich kills a thousand or so insurrectionists, people opposed to his regime, etc whatever.
Hussein has killed, in his lifetime, well over three million people, of both Iranian, Iraqi, American, Syrian, Jordan, Israeli, Saudi nationalities. In both wars and genocides.
Milosovich is in jail for warcrimes against humanity, probably for life... |
Milosevic possibly killed a few hundred armed insurrectionists, which was his duty as a chief of state. Tell me you would let armed insurrectionists run amok in the United States. 
Milosevic certainly shouldnīt be in jail for that. And his defense is going strong; the entire procedure against him is looking more and more ridiculous.
For Saddamīs supposed crimes, we only have the word of the United States, the power who extinguished the Indians and dropped an A-bomb on Japanese civilians.
And as to you, if I judge by your avatar, your loyalty does not even belong to the United States. The ideal person to decide who is a traitor.
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Meshelic
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Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You, however, are a traitor to what it means to be American, which is to have the right to disagree with your government and peaceably resist it. |
Where the hell did you get THAT from???
I never said these people were traitors for DISAGREEING with their government. ****, if American's didn't disagree, or others didn't disagree, there wouldn't be a USA and it would still be a British province!
Did I say anything even remotely close to "lets take away their free speech?" hell no. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't misquote me. RE-ARRANGING my comments and making them sound totally different is the epitome of denying free speech. Stop making a fool of yourself. You aren't making a point worth reading, listening to, or even responding to.
And for you Comrade Tribune, you don't know me. Calling me a traitor because I wear an Israeli flag on my avatar is like calling all Germans "Nazi's". Israel is allied with the US anyways, so where do you get off?
Obviously the uneducated are running rampant, even on the threads of Apolyton. Read your history boys. You can learn alot. I assume you failed that subject, eh?
By the way, if being in the US Military and serving my country (and my ally's country) is treason, then I'm guilty as charged.
I don't see YOU jumping out of planes, rescuing fallen soldiers, learning medical techniques, fighting for what I believe is right. That's what I do, that's my job. I'm a damned patriot.
Go ahead, sit back and judge. I'll be the one laughing in the future when YOUR buildings get blown up by by suicide-airplanes, YOUR embassies blown up, and YOUR people murdered all over the world.
Too bad it's my job to rescue people like you. Sometimes I resent it, all the while wondering if the good people are wasting their time.
Grow up.
Meshelic
Last edited by Meshelic on 23-01-2003 at 07:22
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23-01-2003 01:50
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