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Meshelic
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Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
 Your comments are so funny itīs hard to decide where to start.
Ok, Iīll give it a try: Did it even ever occur to you that, if the US didnīt support Israel, no one would have flown into any buildings? If you really canīt see that your avatar is very closely related to the problem, then you are indeed not a traitor -just a fool.
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No the problem is Arab refusal to allow the state of Israel to even exist. What if the, say, Czech's were totally opposed to Austrian EXISTENCE? Would you just stand there and let them walk all over you?
quote:
And who has ever blown up an Austrian embassy? You really could have taken it from this very thread that I am not American.[.quote]
Well of course you're not American. You have an Austrian flag right? I'm not as much of an idiot as you think I am, but your responses aren't really helping your defense, Comrade.
You may not see it now, but it will happen to you. It will happen to everyone if someone doesn't do something about it NOW.
[quote]
There is a whole world outside the US. As you say: Grow up. |
Yeah, duh. I've been to Austria 4 times, and have lived there for 2 years. Lived in Germany for 5 years. Lived in Italy for a year, lived in Russia for a year....I've been outside the US. Don't pretend that you know me. You don't.
Kramerman - yes I'm a PJ. And yes it's very tough work, but I love it. It's certainly very exciting, and very fulfilling. 
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Meshelic
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Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:25
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Your whole argument is void Comrade! You are proud to be an Austrian, I see, but that's not our argument. The fact is, Austria is not going into Iraq. Nor are there any protesters from Austria setting themselves up as human shields in Iraq either.
Exactly what point ARE you trying to argue, Comrade? Other than bashing the USA, Israel?
And as far as the Indians are concerned, they were slaughtered by the Spanish, the Portuguese, betrayed by the English, and befriended by the French before the French game up it's territories in North America. A history expanding to 1492, when you-know-who sailed the ocean-blue.  YOU CAN HARDLY LUMP ALL OF THEIR PROBLEMS ON THE USA.
Also, Israel was destroyed by the Romans thousands of years ago, their territory taken, and a once-fertile area plundered into a desert. The nomads and settlers living there (mistakenly called Palestinians, for there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" people, regardless of what the media says), were mostly outcast Bedoin tribes that haven't done anything of any worthy mention. Since Israel became a nation, the Jews turned that desert into a sprawling irrigated area where crops grew and people were fed, unlike the Arab's living there who left it as a desert.
It was the British and the French who pushed for the resettlement of the former Jewish homeland. The natives there were merely Arab wanderers who didn't plan on really settling the area until the Jews showed up. Hence nearly a century of conflict in that region.
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Meshelic
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Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:25
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the culture of the U.S. is that it welcomed refugees from lands where they faced religious, civil, and personal persecution. The melting pot, so they call it. Of course Austria will have a more indwelled sense of culture, because it's been the same people living there for as long as it's existed, mostly of Germanic descent.
America, on the other hand, has welcomed immigrants from all corners of the world. Until recently when some of those immigrants began setting off car bombs, dealing drugs, and contributing to a rising crime rate.
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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Meshelic
the culture of the U.S. is that it welcomed refugees from lands where they faced religious, civil, and personal persecution. The melting pot, so they call it. Of course Austria will have a more indwelled sense of culture, because it's been the same people living there for as long as it's existed, mostly of Germanic descent.
America, on the other hand, has welcomed immigrants from all corners of the world. Until recently when some of those immigrants began setting off car bombs, dealing drugs, and contributing to a rising crime rate. |
Not to mention Hollywood, Broadway, television programming, music, Baywatch, etc...
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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:25
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Mesh:
quote:
Have you seen any real footage out of Iraq? Did you see the picture of the 12-year old boy who apparently lost his arm from an American bomb? Israeli and American intelligence studied those pictures, along with several U.N. intelligence officials, and discovered through their research that the boy had been born WITHOUT THE ARM, a victim of Saddam's own use of chemical and biological weapons against his own people. |
So you're implying that American bombs have never damaged Iraqi citizens?
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These westerners going to Iraq are TRAITORS, by the full definition of the term. They are aiding the enemy, and seeking to sabotage U.S./Allied interests there. They should never be allowed to return. |
The U.S. hasn't declared war on Iraq yet... These people are trying to prevent a war. There is nothing treasonous about that. They're simply doing what they feel is the right thing to do for humanity, which unfortunately conflicts with the ideas of the American government at this point in time.
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Hussein still leads a rogue nation that seeks the destruction of his neighbors and the U.S. , after 25 + years in power. |
The compare/contrast method doesn't help your cause here, as there are many other "rogue nations" that have despicable records. Is America justitifed in taking all of them over?
Also, Saddam does not seek the destruction of his neighbours. I'm not saying he's lovey-dovey with all of them, but he certainly isn't actively pursuing war with any of them. Nor is he pursuing action against the U.S. He's a murderous bastard, but he's not crazy.
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Did I say anything even remotely close to "lets take away their free speech?" hell no. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't misquote me. RE-ARRANGING my comments and making them sound totally different is the epitome of denying free speech. Stop making a fool of yourself. You aren't making a point worth reading, listening to, or even responding to. |
He didn't re-arrange your words at all. Why would you make that accusation?
Also: You say you defend freedom of speech, but then you go on to say that someone's words aren't worth even LISTENING to because you disagree? That's pretty closed-minded.
quote:
I don't see YOU jumping out of planes, rescuing fallen soldiers, learning medical techniques, fighting for what I believe is right. That's what I do, that's my job. I'm a damned patriot. |
Ah, so military service is the only way to serve one's country? Why would you make such self-righteous statements?
quote:
Go ahead, sit back and judge. I'll be the one laughing in the future when YOUR buildings get blown up by by suicide-airplanes, YOUR embassies blown up, and YOUR people murdered all over the world. |
This just devalues everything you've said in this thread. You're looking forward to the deaths of those who disagree with you? You may be a patriot, but you're no hero.
Grow up? Didn't you just wish physical harm upon those who disagree with you? I think it's apparent that you're being a little childish here...
NB: I'd like to point out that although I disagree with Mesh and others, I'm not advocating Comrade's hate of America. I like America, I just think that it can be a little misguided at times. And blind patriotism just plain irks me.
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Lord Merciless
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Austrians are kind interesting:
Wanted the "Anschluss" badly in 1938;
Loved to join the SS;
Then blamed everything on Germans;
Is the Naziest country in Europe today(Joerg Haider);
And they like to show their "moral superiority".
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
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quote:
By the way, if being in the US Military and serving my country (and my ally's country) is treason, then I'm guilty as charged. |
Oh, it isn't really treason. It certainly can be murder, though. For example, Paul Tibbets and every other pilot and bombardier who intentionally bombed civilian areas were guilty of murder, in WW2. In fact, any soldier who followed an order to shoot ANYONE who had done nothing against them or the US (originally, not defending themselves after the US got aggressive) is guilty of murder.
The point is, these soldiers had a choice. They could follow orders, and murder innocents, or they could refuse such orders - and order to murder innocents aren't valid anyway - and be moral people. I guess we know what these murderers thought about morality, huh?
quote:
I don't see YOU jumping out of planes, rescuing fallen soldiers, learning medical techniques, fighting for what I believe is right. |
Fighting for what you believe is right? That's all well and good, but don't do it on my money. You want to fund yourself, go right ahead, but I don't wanna pay for your version of morality.
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That's what I do, that's my job. I'm a damned patriot. |
Great, you're a patriot. This is a good thing?
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Go ahead, sit back and judge. I'll be the one laughing in the future when YOUR buildings get blown up by by suicide-airplanes, YOUR embassies blown up, and YOUR people murdered all over the world. |
Why would you laugh when someone is killed?
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Too bad it's my job to rescue people like you. Sometimes I resent it, all the while wondering if the good people are wasting their time. |
Nice condescending attitude. Personally, I resent it when soldiers follow orders to murder people, and sometimes wonder if those who believe in right and wrong are wasting their breath.
In any case, these people who are protesting the war, trying to make a difference, are heros. And if their actions causes any pilot to think twice about murdering innocent people, that's wonderful.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
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Why is it anti-semitic to compare the actions of Israelis and Nazis? If the shoe fits, right?
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Apolyton Time is 00:25. |
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23-01-2003 07:21
Those guys are as hardcore as they come...
You'd think that they would have learned thier lesson from Pollard.
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