11-04-2003 11:04									#271
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Tsk tsk, and you're critical of them with what you were planning soon...

Trip,

I thought you were only going to be making comments in your thread? Is the disease of your presence going to infect every thread? Are you doing this in every groups thread?

Seems like someone is making a big push to deity, eh?


j/k your presence is lightening things up a bit on an otherwise tense day.

	11-04-2003 11:05									#272
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Pay attention Trip! (and in your own thread ) ... we weren't going to break any treaties. War is just part of the game. Breaking treaties in game is part of the game, but still dishonorable 'in-game'.

Our in-game honor cost us the element of suprise, and even initiative. Vox has no in-game honor left.

	11-04-2003 11:09									#273
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Trip, I thought you were only going to be making comments in your thread? Is the disease of your presence going to infect every thread? Are you doing this in every groups thread?

I already have.

quote: Seems like someone is making a big push to deity, eh?

The Eye sees all!

No, no, not me... Ming...

quote: j/k your presence is lightening things up a bit on an otherwise tense day.

Just doing my job.

	11-04-2003 11:10									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Pay attention Trip! (and in your own thread ) ... we weren't going to break any treaties. War is just part of the game. Breaking treaties in game is part of the game, but still dishonorable 'in-game'. Our in-game honor cost us the element of suprise, and even initiative. Vox has no in-game honor left.

I know, I'm just kidding around.

GS needs to lighten up and enjoy their "parade" as you guys seem to view this.

Besides, what was all that rubbish about "establishing a good friendship" and this that and the other?

	11-04-2003 12:58									#275
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quote: Never post in a team's forum besides one thread which is to be used for the express purpose of verifying or questioning events relating to that team.

If I had known you would post like this I would have cast the black ball. If I had been an original member of GS I probably would have anyways. Please keep to your promise.

You can check here for my thoughts about what I think about this situation:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=80373

	11-04-2003 13:12									#276
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Trip, honestly, I appreciate your work as historian, but please remain neutral and don't try to spam every forum you are in. Face it, since you aren't a team member, your opinion is irrelevant. Post in "your" thread, lurk in the others, but abstain from comments whatever they are. Seeing your posts, I already begin to regret to have voted for your permission.

	25-04-2003 10:51									#277
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Theseus, regarding your last message to Vox: I don't know if it's ok to give each other reports on what happened to their units. The problem is that we don't want to disclose our troop strength, so we can't say things like: we attacked you 8 times, 4 of which we killed your units, twice did we dent them, and the other 2 kiled us. In the process, we got 3 elites from it.

I agree there are better ways, and I agree it would be fun to know our statistics, but a unit by unit run down would probably not be ideal.

DeepO

	12-06-2003 02:26									#278
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Posted by nbarclay in ambassadors thread:

From Jon:

quote: I am afraid that your guys decision was modified by the poor play on our players part recently (I beleive he posted 2 or 3 oh no, I can't beleive I did that posts in the last couple of days). Oh well, such is the game. I am certain that we would be interested in getting off Estonia (in fact an Exodus plan was already started, it is still a few turns from completion). Jon Miller

Holy sheep shoot, Batman!

They may go for it. Well done people!

	12-06-2003 03:00									#279
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This is just a post to point out that Betahound has changed his username to Beta.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...484#post2080484

	12-06-2003 04:48									#280
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Proposed reply to Jon:

quote: Just for your team's information, once Inchon and Inchoff were established, I don't think anything short of a miracle (or a very friendly RNG) could have made much difference in the prospects for peace. None of the GS discussion even hints that any suboptimal moves Vox might have made since then influenced our people's views. Just as a rough outline, what would Vox think of disbanding the military units you aren't planning to take with you in your evacuation in exchange for a period of peace (say, a dozen or so turns) to focus your entire economy on the evacuation effort? That way you can evacuate without worrying about defense and we can get back to building sooner. And units disbanded in cities could even be used to help speed production of galleys and settlers. If the idea sounds okay in principle, we can work out the specifics.

	12-06-2003 05:10									#281
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Good.

If this happens:

1) We need a lawyer (or some of our more... obsessive team member ) to close any holes in the treaty.

2) We should offer every bit of help that we can in optimizing their play. We will probably want a temporary private forum somewhere to really get into it with them.

	12-06-2003 09:44									#282
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I like the synopsis thet nbarclay wrote. Lets send that to Vox and flesh out the proposal...

Mss

	12-06-2003 11:38									#283
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Nathan: let's not forget to mention Vox's catapults (they may have more than three, btw).

I'm a bit disappointed that we can't get another leader out of this war.
I looked at the rules and it doesn't appear like leader farming is illegal. If Vox disbands their units for just a few shields each it'll be such a waste... perhaps we can offer them to let us kill all of their extra units with our elite units, and promise to deposit a large sum of gold (say, 500g) for every great leader that we generate.
Against 15 Voxian units, we have a ~62% chance of generating at least one leader. Against 20 Voxian units, we have a ~72% chance of generating at least one leader.

	12-06-2003 14:21									#284
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I'd rather like it if Vox's offer is genuine. Okay, we lose some chance for GL's, but we get to secure the continent at remarkably little cost to ourselves - winning the war almost entirely by maneuver rather than combat. It looks good on the CV.

We should still be prepared for the fact that the offer might not be genuine though, and rather an attempt to stall us until they can get their stacks into Elipolis.

	12-06-2003 16:52									#285
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I just sent the message.

	12-06-2003 17:20									#286
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If it was 'legal', every wonder available would have been built by now IMO. Each team would have one of their buddies sending them warriors to kill and vice versa to kill. Even if it's not expressly forbidden, it isn't something we should do.

Peace hasn't been signed yet, and we have at least a couple shots at targets with our Elite WC's in the coming turns.

	12-06-2003 17:57									#287
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That makes sense.
Alright, I'll hold my fingers for our elite WCs.

	12-06-2003 18:27									#288
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Wow!

Lookin' good, folks!

Though I really have to wonder... where the hell are they gonna go?

So, it is my understanding that the deal we're discussing is:

- They leave the continent soon, supervised and perhaps helped by us (the planning)
- They give us Engineering (at some point) for free.
- They give us Nationalism for free.

I wouldn't mind getting their catapults. But that's not a big deal.

I'm for this, obviously. Now... what do you all think about a FP in Dissidentville?

-Arrian

	12-06-2003 22:50									#289
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Now... what do you all think about a FP in Dissidentville? -Arrian

Any ideas regarding a palace location if we have a FP in D'ville?

I am not sure I like a FP in D'ville.' I need to study the map more...

mss

	13-06-2003 00:00									#290
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Neither am I, MSS.

I prefer to plan as if we might not be moving our palace off the continent. Not that we don't want to do that, but it simply might not be possible (doing so requires a lot of things to go our way). So I'm looking at minimizing corruption on our continent, while not totally screwing our current core cities if we do manage to move the palace elsewhere. So I figured Dissville is about right... hell, maybe Inchon.

-Arrian

	13-06-2003 03:18									#291
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I think Elipolis would be the perfect spot for our FP if/when we have the entire continent. Waiting to build it on Bob is going to hurt too much, and not give all that much better production/commerce in the long run anyways.

We need a foothold on Bob eventually, but we don't have to have a productive foothold. In many cases it's better that we aren't relying on production from any holdings on Bob, as then war isn't as much a threat to us. Sea invasions are tough to pull off relatively speaking.

	13-06-2003 05:07									#292
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Elipolis has two problems. (1) Corruption will almost certainly be prohibitively high to build a FP there without a leader. (2) It would do little to address corruption in our original core if we want to move our palace later.

With the way the game is shaping up, I don't think the tradeoff of maximizing production on our continent at the expense of not being able to establish a new core elsewhere later would be a bad one. But having to wait half of forever before the FP gets finished would be a huge drawback.

	13-06-2003 05:13									#293
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what about a new future city 333(3) from D'ville?


mss

PS we sould end this threadjack and start a new one perhaps....

	22-06-2003 08:13									#294
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*poof*

Have to keep dusting this one off.

Is the deal good enough? Should we send it?

	22-06-2003 14:33									#295
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One comment: if I read the proposal, are we giving them all their current pop? I would think we give them all pop, minus one per city (in order to give it away). So a size 5 city becomes 2 settlers, and not 2 settlers and a worker.

Further, answer them on D-ville (which can be done before official acceptance of the proposal): Yes, get all your units in there asap, and give it to us.

Lastly, ask them about that scenario... or the exact shield / food situation in there cities. We're already in turn 2 of the 18-turn period

DeepO

	22-06-2003 18:31									#296
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Their cities should grow at least once each in the 18 turns, so their current pop total would be fine with me.

	22-06-2003 23:19									#297
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Alright, let's get done with this.
What else do we need before we can send our reply to Vox's latest counter-offer?

	23-06-2003 04:21									#298
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Their cities should grow at least once each in the 18 turns, so their current pop total would be fine with me.

Exactly. With Eli's version, we could easily have ended up obligated to help/let Vox evacuate with more than their current population, since cities could grow twice and would have to be down to pop 1 before being handed over to us.

	23-06-2003 09:26									#299
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We can come up with an evacuation plan for them, and according to the draft, as soon as we've evacuated all their cities to 1 pop or less, they give us the city.
Anyway, let's ratify this thing already, Vox is getting nervous.

	23-06-2003 20:14									#300
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hmmm... I know their cities are going to grow, however, we could ask them to keep their cities at 0 surplus food, if that would mean more shields produced (not sure this applies, haven't seen at the Vox map in a while)

DeepO