22-03-2003 10:51									#211
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More hills. Possible forest. Found a river. Not bad so far.

If that is forest that will be the route for getting irrigation into the plains.

The Immortal on the cow should move NW onto the hill to reveal more of the coast line. The other Immortal should move W onto the hill for a better view.

I still want to build south of the cow. It is one move for the galley to drop off units in the city and it is one move (once roads are in) to move units from that city to the proposed B1 and B2 sites. That could be all one turn if the units do not move before being loaded into the galley at Wittlich City.

	22-03-2003 13:30									#212
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ATTENTION!!!!

COME ON!. Let's not be an "indian princess" and search for the "perfect site"! This is a BEACH HEAD CITY people! We need to get the city founded and founded quickly!

True, I have changed my vote from the hill to south of the cow, but come on! Build it already!

Or if you all prefer, lets just wonder all around until we uncover EVERYTHING and meetup with all civs on this landmass and THEN deside where to put our first "Beach-head City"!!!

I am sorry for my outbust but - GET A GRIP!! You are not shopping at K-mart looking for the blue light special!

Last edited by Wittlich on 22-03-2003 at 13:36

	22-03-2003 19:51									#214
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I agree. We have a good site south of the cow. Other cities can cover the other territory once we lift more of the blackness.

	22-03-2003 19:57									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich ATTENTION!!!! COME ON!. Let's not be an "indian princess" and search for the "perfect site"! This is a BEACH HEAD CITY people! We need to get the city founded and founded quickly! True, I have changed my vote from the hill to south of the cow, but come on! Build it already! Or if you all prefer, lets just wonder all around until we uncover EVERYTHING and meetup with all civs on this landmass and THEN deside where to put our first "Beach-head City"!!! I am sorry for my outbust but - GET A GRIP!! You are not shopping at K-mart looking for the blue light special!

Best post in a long time. Thanks Witt. And yes - I agree.

	22-03-2003 22:29									#216
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very true witt. next turn It should be built

	23-03-2003 02:46									#217
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree lets build the faster we build the faster we grow!

	23-03-2003 06:08									#218
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1075 turn started. But not completed. I have sent screen shots showing the new Bobian territory discovered by the moves made so far. These moves were generally agreed to by RP, GoW, and NeuD on the chat earlier today.

I also did some analysis on warrior production, were we to disconnect the iron. Quite startling. If we disconnected the iron - and the best way would be to use the warrior of the iron mountain - and cut the road right north of there - we could produce the following warriors:

By next turn - Dissidentville 1, Elipolis 1, Miller Town 1. All with no shield loss.

Within the next 6 turns - we could produce the following:
The Voice - 1 (inludes settler production next after the spearman which is out next turn)
Dissidentville - 2 (via pop rushes), same for spearmen.
(you get 20 shields from the first citizen of a pop rush - right?)
Elipolis - 1
Miller Town - 3- vets
Wittlich City - 3 - vets

That is 13 in total. 11 if we do spearmen with Dissidentville. And we will need 40 gold to upgrade each. And we will need to reconnect the iron by rebuilding the road.

If we do not do this, and stick to the current builds - we will produce by the end of the same seven turns:

Wittlich City - 1 Immortal - vet
Miller Town - 1 Immortal - vet
The Voice - say 1 add'l spearman (in between settler builds)
Elipolis - spearman
Dissidentville - 2 spearmen using pop rushing - one without.

That is 6 units - and only two Immortals.

So - can we sell that new tech now for some cash. We currently have 125 accumulating at 12 per turn.

Comments?

	23-03-2003 08:51									#219
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After looking at it a bit more - the iron disconnect is still the best plan. However - if we do it on the jungle road tile just north of the iron colony, it will be visible to the GS warrior on the mountain to the NW, 2 tile distance diagonally.

If we did it using the Immortal in Elipolis - on the hill tile just south of the city - it would not be visible.

The downside is that Dissidentville stays connected. Whicjh might be OK. We can use it to pump out spearmen - first one in 7 turns. And then two the two turns after that using pop rushes.

Or - we could in two turns when the city grows, pop rush a barracks. Two pop points gives us 30 shields - right? A barracks would then allow us to upgrade the loacal warriors once the action begins - without having to ship them up north and back again.

Or - we don't worry about GS seeing us do it. They will likely suspect we are gearing up for the fight on Bob. But I don't want to get them thinking too much.

	23-03-2003 09:14									#220
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So going with the plan that breaks the road south of Elipolis - and leaving Dissidentville connected to the iron - we would within 8 or so turns have the following:

On Bob - 2 Immortals and 1 Spearman,

On Estonia

Now: 1 Immortal (Elipolis), 1 Spearman (Dissidentville), 3 Warriors in the south.

New builds: 10 warriors converted to Immortals (we need approx. an extra 200 gold to do this), 1 spearman from The Voice, 3 Spearmen from Dissidentville.

Total - 11 Immortals, 3 Warriors, 5 spearmen.

If we want to stretch it and get more gold from somewhere - we could probably add 3 or 4 turns and add 4 or 5 more warriors for Immortal conversion.

	23-03-2003 09:34									#221
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Ok. that is an "overnight army". I say we do it. But we will need a good deal of gold. If we are getting con. and curr. from GS I could try and get gold from GOW for our next age tech. what do you think?

	23-03-2003 10:22									#222
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Break the road near Elipolis. The less GS see the less they will start wondering about what is up. Dissidentville can produce spearmen. They can be used to provide protection to the Immortals to take some of the heat from GS attacks and to provide protection to conquered cities. This leaves the Immortals to press the offensive.

	24-03-2003 02:31									#223
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If you have not broken the road yet, do it on the grassland 2 SE of Elipolis. It will take fewer worker turns to replace it. Another reason for breaking it near Elipolis rather than by the iron is our workers are close by to reconnect it quickly when we need the iron.

Edit: SE, not SW.

	24-03-2003 03:21									#224
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1175 BC turn completed. Screen shots on their way.

The first three moves you knew about.

CITY BUILT! South of the cows. The last poll was reading 3-1 for , and Harry had me convinced. Even if we end up gifting this to GoW, it will be a more productive city.

City named Witllich West - and Wittlich City was renamed Wittlich East.

Garrisoned by other Immortal on Bob. Walls in 10. We are getting 3 shields per turn but losing 1 to corruption. If we reach agreement with GoW and NeuD on long-term plans, we can convert this build to warrior - 5 turns.

Next move - road cut south of Elipolis. I understand your point Harry - but if I went one more tile south, it was visible from the mountain two tiles away where they have an observer warrior. Yes, the road will take longer to rebuild - but no choice in this.

Elipolis and Miller Town produce warriors next turn. Miller Town's will be a vet. Wittlich in two turns. And The Voice is produces a spearman next turn.

The schedule then is as per the above.We can also get another warrior by running the spearman down to the iron mountain, and reaccling the warrior - but I don't want to alarm GS. A lot will depend on how convicing the kerfuffle on Bob is. And it may yet still be for real.

Dissidentville can have 3 spearman out in 9 turns, using pop rushes. (Can someone please confirm to me the shields from pop rushing. Eli? Harry? Is it 20 for the first and 10 for the second?)

Two northern workers still on jobs. The third worker has moved to the tile you see him on to road that tile and the one south of it. That will allow the settler out of the voice in 5 turns to get to Harry's proposed site in two turns. It also starts improving tiles we will need anyway.
I agree with Harry's city sites for North Estonia.

That's it. The Vox Controli military industrial complex is gearing up for war. We just have to decide where.

	24-03-2003 03:41									#225
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Oops - sorry Harry. I see that you want the city on the east coast built first- #3. No problem - he can get to that site in two turns as well. And having another improved tile will not hurt.

The big question of course will be whether he settles on Estonia or Bob.

	24-03-2003 04:32									#226
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quote: Garrisoned by other Immortal on Bob. Walls in 10. We are getting 3 shields per turn but losing 1 to corruption. If we reach agreement with GoW and NeuD on long-term plans, we can convert this build to warrior - 5 turns.

Unless we get more money to upgrades it may be more useful to produce a spearman. We will need some defenders to go with the Immortals to stay in conquered cities.

quote: Next move - road cut south of Elipolis. I understand your point Harry - but if I went one more tile south, it was visible from the mountain two tiles away where they have an observer warrior. Yes, the road will take longer to rebuild - but no choice in this.

Good catch. That is in the fog so I do not see the unit on my pics. I forgot they have a warrior there. That also means we will have to shuttle some of the Immortals around there ahead of time so they do not see them coming.

quote: Dissidentville can have 3 spearman out in 9 turns, using pop rushes. (Can someone please confirm to me the shields from pop rushing. Eli? Harry? Is it 20 for the first and 10 for the second?)

The editor says the citizen value in shields in 20. That should be per citizen. 1-20 shields should cost 1 citizen, 21-40 shields should cost to. I will run setup a test to confirm.

	25-03-2003 17:33									#227
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save is here. I will sit on it for the day and play after work - around 6pm est.

Will check it first for further developments.

	26-03-2003 08:35									#228
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Turn played. Two immortals are now on the galley. Spearman is moving to the east coast of Bob for later pick-up.

Two warriors produced this turn. Others underway. Settler in 4 turns from the Voice.

AND the incense was connected. Our people have a luxury!!

And peace was offered to GoW ... along with Wittlich West.

Short term pain for long term gain. If this flops - I am to relieved of any and all official Vox duties. Then again, if this flops, we all will be.

The plan is now underway. Time will tell.

	26-03-2003 09:33									#229
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I am completely in favor of almost everything Beta has said and done. I too take blame for this because I also pushed it fairly hard

	26-03-2003 19:03									#230
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You know, since Wittlich West is so close to our capital - maybe we'll get lucky later and have it culture-flip back to us.

	26-03-2003 20:03									#231
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I don't think it will culture flip. It has built up no culture of ours and there is no other culture border within its radius.

	26-03-2003 22:16									#232
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Ah but Wittlich East is, or soon will be, in the radius of Wittlich West - So I think there is still something to hope for.

	27-03-2003 08:16									#233
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Have we been hoodwinked?

Note RP's note in the FP thread, and my question to GoW. I have received the save, with Togas' note. There are no RP units within visual range of the city boundaries.

Any idea how they would know?

I am sitting on the save until we get an answer from Ghengis Farb.

	27-03-2003 08:29									#234
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OK - the only way I can see them figuring this out is:

1) someone told them or showed them a screen print

or

2) they interpreted it from the histograph which does show a blip. And if they can do this - so can GS.

I am starting to get a bad feeling about this.

	27-03-2003 08:50									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich You know, since Wittlich West is so close to our capital - maybe we'll get lucky later and have it culture-flip back to us.

In retrospect - that is another reason we should have built on the point. It would be one tile closer to The Voice, and would have been well within our cultural boundaries. It may still happen, especially if we expand Wittlich City's boundaries.

	27-03-2003 21:57									#236
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OK - I have played and passed the turn this morning. Just getting to posting it now.

The galley unloaded our two immortals at Wittlich City, and will pick up the spearman next turn.

Another warrior produced. Our offensive forces now consist of three immortals (one vet) and three warriors(two vet). I am excluding the southern warriors here as they will not be immediately available for use.

Settler out in 4 turns.

Worker now building mine on incense tile. Other worker has moved to mine hill tile next to Wittlich City. As per Harry's earlier notes, the mined hill tiles are valuable in boosting shield production. Getting Wittlich City's production up to 4 shields per turn makes a difference of producing a warrior in 3 turns as apposed to 4, for example.

And last worker is finishing roading the plains tile and then will irrigate. Then two of the workers will head south to Elipolis.

Gold continues to accumulate.

	27-03-2003 22:00									#237
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound OK - the only way I can see them figuring this out is: 1) someone told them or showed them a screen print or 2) they interpreted it from the histograph which does show a blip. And if they can do this - so can GS. I am starting to get a bad feeling about this.

According to Ghengis - there is a map of Bob which is update each turn, and it shows all the cities. I presume this is the same one we got from Lego. My sense is that the uneasy truce on Bob is held together by the use of this map - each of them can keep an idea of what is going on, and that no one is building where they should not. That is how our turning the city over to GoW was picked up so quickly.

Working on a revised story line for public consumption.

	27-03-2003 23:06									#238
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I was wondering were that map came from, that was quite some intel!

	28-03-2003 09:15									#239
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1000BC turn played.

Peace with NeuD accepted. We are also now at peace with GoW.

!00 gold from Lego as agreed to. Treasury now at 259 plus 11 per turn.

Miller Town produced another vet warrior. Now 4 in total ready for upgrade. 3 more in next 3 turns.

Settler in 2 turns. Then The Voice will pump out two more warriors as well.

Spearman picked up from continent, and spearman and immortal in galley on their way to Elipolis. Before he left - he spotted NeuD swordsman to the east.

Also - the military advisor gives us our military strength relative to the others as follows:

Lego - weak
RP- weak
NeuD - weak
GoW - average
GS - strong

Screen shots on their way.

	29-03-2003 04:52									#240
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That is good news, we want to be stronger than GS!