11-03-2003 00:16									#151
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yeah I think we should change Miller town to barracks and Wittlich city to granary. Millertown has slightly better prodution right now and can get an Immortal out faster.

we could try a courthouse in dissidentville. but I don' think we will have enough population to rush it before we switch to republic. We'll wait and see on that one. We'll stick with temple for eliopolis.

	11-03-2003 00:23									#152
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I can agree with the barracks for Miller Town - but forWittlich City, a granary is an option I had not considered. I was thinking library and the cultre for territory expansion and protection.

The rationale for Miller Town to have the granary is that it is on the lake - and can grow to size 12 without an aqueduct. WittlichCity I saw as being a size six city. Or ay least slower growing than Miller town.

But the barracks now for some vet spearmen and immortals does sound good for crossing the strait. We are all sweetness and bliss with GoW and RP right now -but wait until we show up on the continent. That is where immortals will be a great asset.

	11-03-2003 00:32									#153
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perhaps we can have both cities build barracks. Eventually we will build a granary for Miller town then.

Also if you haven't played the turn leave 40 gold up for Glory of War. I'm writing them trying to complete this map making deal.

I would like to get out at least one immotal and a vet spearman (possibly for the colony) with Miller town.

wittlich city can build a second immortal and more spearman for town garrisons.

Last edited by Dis on 11-03-2003 at 00:47

	11-03-2003 00:54									#154
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Beta if you haven't already played the turn go ahead and leave the 40 gold up for GOW. I think ghengis agreed to finsh the mm deal.

I'm not sure what we wanted to do with lego contact. I thought we heard they were heading towards us?

Was there anything else we need to decide for this turn?

	11-03-2003 02:15									#155
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Wont it be more efficient to build lots of warriors and upgrade them to Immortals? After all, money is much more easier to get than shields.

	11-03-2003 03:29									#156
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Eli - hmmm - interesting idea. Let me check.

	11-03-2003 05:11									#157
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1300bc turn played.

INSTANT ARMY!!! Thanks to Eli's recommendation.

Here's the plan. (screen shots on their way)

Miller Town switched to barracks. Finished next turn. Then produces warrior (by switching citizen to the woods square and getting 5 shields per turn) in two turns. Then starts a shield holding build, to produce an Immortal on turn 8, after iron is connected on turn 6.

The Voice has produced a granary. Will grow in 3 turns. It is producing a warrior - in two turns. A settler would have taken 5. We can get a warrior and a settler out in 6 with the growth in 3. And besides - the galley won't be in Wittlich city until turn 6, so he would have to wait a turn anyway.

Elipolis produces a galley in three turns with map making coming next turn. The second worker will move onto the square next turn, and will assist the current worker in cutting the forest a turn earlier.

The galley takes three moves exactly to get to Wittlich city to load up settler and an Immortal.

Dissident switched to building a warrior, done on turn 6.

On turn 6, we hook up the iron. If we do it now, we can't build warriors, and as Eli has pointed out, it is a lot quicker to build warriors at 10 shields and upgrade them, than building them from scratch at 30 shields each.

(what I can't recall is if a city is building a warrior, and you hook up the iron, whether it gets the choice to finish that build or does it get switched automatically to the upgrade. Can someone let me know. We could have Elipolis build another warrior after the galley perhaps.))

So - in addition to our current crop of warriors - one who is up north anyway - this plan produces 3 more - one who is a vet, and one vet immortal. It will take 120 gold to upgrade the three warriors, or 160 including the northern warrior. That will be a total of 5 immortals by turn 8, two of them vets.

The galley will cross to the continent on turn 7 (fingers crossed we have that long) with the settler and an Immortal, build on the hill opposite Wittlich City (Wittlich East), and start building walls. The galley then ferries over sufficient Immortals for us to feel safe.

Wonderful idea Eli. You may not post much, but when you do, its on the mark.

Research - given the discussion going on - I dropped it to 10% not to lose the research done to-date on Polytheism. That loads 11 more gold into the treasury for next turn. 199+11 = 210. We can still get it done it 19 turns.

I think we should finish it - and will post my reasons why in the other thread.

Sent Literature to Neu D as part of our friendship pact.

Sent deal back to GoW with 40 gold. They still have both MM and contact with Lego on the screen, so Diss, please remind them to drop the contact - ACCEPT - and re-send. Thx.

That's it. Long turn - but lots of stuff in the works.

	11-03-2003 07:22									#158
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound (what I can't recall is if a city is building a warrior, and you hook up the iron, whether it gets the choice to finish that build or does it get switched automatically to the upgrade. Can someone let me know. We could have Elipolis build another warrior after the galley perhaps.)

Actually, what ever is currently being built - the city will finish it, then if the unit is superceded by another on the city's next build in the queue - it will only build the new unit.

So the key here is to make sure the city(s) are building warriors before iron is connected.

	11-03-2003 07:27									#159
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quote: The galley will cross to the continent on turn 7 (fingers crossed we have that long) with the settler and an Immortal, build on the hill opposite Wittlich City (Wittlich East), and start building walls. The galley then ferries over sufficient Immortals for us to feel safe.

You know, we could call the city "Wittlich Ost" - This should give a few chuckles from the German team. Ost is East in German.

Or we could call it by it's proper name: "Spearhead Village" ... On second thought, maybe not!

	11-03-2003 13:10									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Actually, what ever is currently being built - the city will finish it, then if the unit is superceded by another on the city's next build in the queue - it will only build the new unit. So the key here is to make sure the city(s) are building warriors before iron is connected.

warriors are always buildible

JKopn Miller

	11-03-2003 18:04									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller warriors are always buildible JKopn Miller

Dear Jkopn

IIRC, that is not the case. I ran one scenario hooking up the iron, and the only new build which was available in that upgrade path was Immortal.

Witt - I like Wittlich Ost.

BTW - take a look at the latest correspondence from NeuD. This should be interesting.

	11-03-2003 19:32									#162
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Well, if you have a city that is not hooked up to an iron source, then Jon is right - your choice will always be a warrior. But if your city has iron available, the option for building a warrior will be lost/superceded to the upgrade unit that requires iron - unless, of course, the city in question is building a warrior prior to iron being hooked-up to that city.

Last edited by Wittlich on 11-03-2003 at 20:22

	11-03-2003 22:34									#163
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Regarding our plan to cross the strait and set up shop - here is a great strategy thread on taking and more relevant to our situation, defending, cities.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=77955

We have the hill. We add walls, spearmen, Immortals, and maybe some catapults. And presto - Wittlich Ost.

	11-03-2003 22:55									#164
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well they won't be veterans if we do it that way right?

	11-03-2003 22:59									#165
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upgraded units lose there status

I think

Jon Miller

	11-03-2003 23:11									#166
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No - I believe upgraded units keep their status. But Diss is right - only two of them will be vets. IMO, that is not a big deal.

It gets us 5 immortals very quickly.

	12-03-2003 03:23									#167
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Yes, the only time they loose their status is when an Elite unit is upgraded, then it turns into a Veteran. Veteran units that upgrade remain Veterans.

	12-03-2003 03:31									#168
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I agree with the ways things are being done here. At this point, without proper knowlege of what is going on I can't really comment on what to do. I would love it if someone could send me the save. So that I can take a look.

	12-03-2003 04:00									#169
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you could read the threads?



Jon Miller

	12-03-2003 06:41									#170
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I have and I will continue

	12-03-2003 06:49									#171
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Ok I got the map. I think we NEED a city that can get large food production. which we can use to produce settlers, and not worry about the pop. cost. Also what is the Barb. level?

	12-03-2003 08:14									#172
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Miller Town could definitely be this city. After turn 8, we could pop rush a granary. If we send a worker north and Irrigate some grassland and plains, or mine the plains. Then we would have a pop producing city with enough production to make settlers fast.

	12-03-2003 08:28									#173
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yes agreed.

I would like to get Millertown back to their settler production (with a granary) when we build those military units.

	12-03-2003 08:30									#174
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Macy - I don't disagree. It was producing a granary - but we switched to barracks last turn. See the last turn comments in the move threads - where it says INSTANT ARMY. (edit - this is the moves thread )

We have The Voice set up as the settler factory right now. It has a three food tile so is better able to do it. I agree that Miller Town could also fufill that role, but with the decision to get across the strait asap - and that is driven by geopolitical concerns on the continent - ie ND and GoW filling up the old Lux territory quickly (info obtained in chat with RP on sunday evening), and our obtaining map making - we have adjusted priorities. We have felt safe with little military strength for awhile now, but crossing to the other continent is a whole other thing.

But - you are right - Miller Town is a great candidate for a granary. We/I made an early strategic error and built a temple there. The game is playing on an easier level than originally planned (another bug), and we could have used the granary before the temple. Live and learn.

Also - early growth was hampered by using the workers to cut the road south. And that was driven by our need to 'claim' the land further south - and get to iron.

Check out the earlier post. It will help explain the short-term build plans.

Last edited by Beta on 12-03-2003 at 08:51

	12-03-2003 09:16									#175
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Yes I have read the posts here, well, page5 on up, they seem like the most relavent and I have read all of the FA ND
I think your move switching to barracks was good. My post never questioned your moves. I said we should get one after the immortal is done.
Plus this would really help us colonizing old Luxia see my post in the New Tech.

	12-03-2003 09:23									#176
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yah

it takes a bit to catch up

but it looks like you are actively succeeding at it

we all here are not hubric over our civ knowledge, so feel free to opint out stupid things we are doing (the only dumb comment is no comment)

thanks for your discussion

I will put you as in advisor for now, and we can add you in as a controller or FA (or some other position) in a couple of weeks

Jon Miller

	12-03-2003 09:51									#177
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quote: Originally posted by mjmacy I think your move switching to barracks was good. My post never questioned your moves. I said we should get one after the immortal is done. Plus this would really help us colonizing old Luxia see my post in the New Tech.

Yup - understood. Granary in Miller Town makes sense. It is also on the lake- so no size 6 cap.

But - after the barracks, it is scheduled to build a warrior, and then an immortal. Then granary. And we will see if pop rushing works. Granary is a 60 shield build - not sure we could do it. Maybe after 10-12 turns of building. We'll see soon enough. Well, in about two weeks time anyway.

	12-03-2003 10:01									#178
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Diss - it is midnight here and sleep beckons. You Ok to play the save. If not - I can play first thing in the morning.

Here is what is in the works:

-accept GoW trade - hopefully 40g for mm
-nothing to NeuD until we hear back
-leave research at 10%. The cash won't hurt.
-The Voice - is OK
-Miller Town - Build to Warrior AND move citizen from irrigated tile to forest tile to get 5 shield production. This will allow us to build the warrior in two turns.
-Elipolis - if we get MM, switch to galley. If not - no problem, the temple will hold the shields until we find out what happened to the GoW trade, if it did not go through.
-southern worker next to D'ville should be finished the road and should head north. Building a mine there gets us nothing due to corruption- there is higher priority stuff up north to do.
-worker in Elipolis is scheduled to move onto the forest tile with the other worker. Next turn he will assist him in cutting it down one turn earlier and getting the galley one turn earlier.
-do not connect the iron.

That's it. Thanks. Good night guys.

	12-03-2003 10:33									#179
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this is just a joke:
Here is kind of a funny thought I had. I'm not saying do this but just thought of it and felt like typing it. What if we didn't use the Lux worker to build the colony. Instead, we send him over after the settler, saying that we are coming to put the Lux refugee back to his home country. Haha. It would legitamize our arrival.

	12-03-2003 10:35									#180
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WE are reestablishing him in his homeland. could ND object to this?


(still a joke)