01-03-2003 18:47									#121
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Thanks Eli - you are right. The editor says so too

It used to be 20 before one of the patches I think.

	04-03-2003 04:27									#122
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I have the save - but want to figure out what we do about Lux before we play.

	04-03-2003 08:27									#123
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Turn Played. (Lux is going to be the death of me. Man they are a lot of work.)

Anyways - received code of laws from GS.

We will finish Philosophy in 4 turns (3 after this) but I think I can shave one turn of that next turn. I couldv'e got it down this turn, but only by seriously impacting growth and production, which I think are higher priorities right now.

The foreign affairs discussion thread has details on the build times and pop growth, especially as they relate to getting across the straight. If we do use one of the two current spearmen, we can be across the straight in 12 turns I calculate, and building on the 13th. Or we hold off until we have the iron city built first.

Anyways - we have lots of time to plan this.

As per FA, Lux's life is spared. I agreed to the deal, but for the 40 gold, I am asking that 20 come from GS. I sent Lux 20 gold. Writing next turn. They still have to negotiate with GoW. And I have to convince GS to give them 20 gold.

	06-03-2003 05:53									#124
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Waiting on the save - oliverfa of RP posted that the save was sent - but I did not receive anything. I have posted as such on the saved game thread and e-mailed him as well.

	06-03-2003 07:32									#125
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Ok, I'm excited. Beta, with the latest poll concerning the survival of Lux (part 2), are we going to do "it" on this turn?

I believe that the sooner we do the "act," the sooner we can move on to greener pastures.

	06-03-2003 07:55									#126
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I agree - but I am still waiting for the save. Oliverfa is now a player for RP, and there have been some glitches.

I am going to sleep shortly. I would love to be the one to do it - since I sort of feel like I got us into it. I also suspect that oliverfa being in Europe, he may not even be aware of the issue. I have e-mailed him, and PM'd him and Togas. Nothing yet.

There is also some tinkering to do with citizens to try and get research down to 2 turns this turn. If not - then may as well move him back, and Elipolis to the

Worker at Elipolis to irrigate the tile he is on.

Move Elipolis citizen (cit) to coastal tile to get two gold.

Miller Town - see if moving cit from irrigated plains tile to lake tile gets the research down to two turns. If not - then may as well move him back, and Elipolis to the grassland tile to get the two food.

The Voice - has a new cit this turn - it needs to go on the enhanced grassland tile to get production up to get the granary finished a turn ealier. We will be short one shield but can make that up by switching this cit to a forest tile for the last production turn.

Move spearman into Portia. Install a new governor. Rename the city to Dissidentville. We will probably need to put both cits as entertainers to keep from falling into disorder. Start producing a worker to get rid of an other Lux population point. We may want to consider trying to pop rush a temple here to get the borders to expand. That will take a few turns.

We also need to post the thread announcing the demise of Lux. I can do that in the morning. I can also play the turn in the morning Diss, if you want. Just let me know.

Er - new file just received from Togas. Will play it.

	06-03-2003 08:59									#127
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK - 1400bc turn played. Much as described above.

Screen shots on their way. 3 of them. One of the event itself.

We got 55 gold from Lux when we took Portia. We also got the worker they produced. He had ben moved outside the city.

And got philo down to two turns via tweaking. Had to slow the granary prod. time in Miller Town. Thought it was worth it for the two turns.

RP offered us literature. Will need to chat with GS.

Posted the public announcement in the main forum.

I also wrote Trip a letter - see correspondence.

I think it would be best if we avoided any squabbles or arguments with Lux, or respond to comments from other civs. Let's take the high road on this. Let's be very quiet about it. If questioned, let's just say the situation was getting very difficult for us. We had to make a decision. And it was a tough one. If Trip makes a big public display, and I hope he won't, it will be see for what it is. I'm sure everyone can figure this out for themselves, without any input from us.

Going to send quick letter to GS.

And then send out screen shots.

Diss - I sent the save to vondrack of Legoland. I asked him for the addresses of their other players.

Now - to sleep.

(not sure how well one sleeps after eliminating an entire civilization .... )

	06-03-2003 12:38									#128
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I still can't believe you (we) actually did it.

now to prepare for the fallout...

	06-03-2003 12:40									#129
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If GS gave Lux any gold we should consider giving it back to them to make relations good. It is their gold.

	06-03-2003 16:43									#130
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Not sure if they did or not. I will find out.

	06-03-2003 23:13									#131
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of course they may say they did . We could try to verify that with Lux.

I just want to keep relations good with GS.

	07-03-2003 05:42									#132
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Turn played. Will update in a few minutes.

	07-03-2003 07:25									#133
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Turn played. Very anti-climactic.

1 turn to philo and was able to move citizens back to the better tiles.

The Voice will produce a granary in 3 turns.

We are on track for our settler and galley combo when we get map making.

I started moving the captured worker up north - we could use him to connect the luxury and mine the shielded grassland square we have been meaning to do for a while.

I was also thinking we could use him as a colony - get the iron now - and use the next settlers for better city sites. Any thoughts on this. It may be a better use of the early settlers - and will cost us the Lux worker who is not industrious. (You can produce colonies with foreign workers can't you.)

The one downside is using a worker on a colony will be a clear sign to GS that we don't have iron up north - maybe they know this already - I think they do. Can you recall jon.

The Dissidentville cit was now content and could be put back to work. I am producing another worker so that should clean out the Luxian population. The corruption is still very high at Dissidentville.

(another reflection is that this was not the right city to build early - although it haas staked out our property claim, for what that may be worth in the future.)

Oh yes - also received Literature from GS, and sent HB Riding to them. I had not yet received a response to my letter today to Nathan - but I figure we should proceed. It will get RP off our backs about trading with them.

That's it.

	07-03-2003 07:27									#134
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we have not told them that we do not have iron up north

Jon Miller

	07-03-2003 08:08									#135
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quote: Beta wrote: and will cost us the Lux worker who is not industrious.

It doesn't matter what civ the worker is from. All captured workers work at one half our rate and do not cost any gold (or count against the unit max).

quote: The Dissidentville cit was now content and could be put back to work. I am producing another worker so that should clean out the Luxian population. The corruption is still very high at Dissidentville.

Dissidentville should have a reasonable growing rate with the Wheat. We should consider using pop-rush to produce some buildings, like a Temple and Courthouse. I think we will be a Republic in 20 turns or so. If we can pop-rush those two buildings before then the city should do OK in Republic. We may need the luxury hooked up just to make sure the one or two citizens that remain in the city do not get unhappy from the rushing.

	07-03-2003 17:19									#136
	Got spare money?

Harry - good point about Dissidentville. We had contemplated this way back when - but you are right - if we are going to do it - we should do it soon. And pop rushing is the only way we are going to get anything built there with the current shield production and corruption levels. We should map out the projected pop growth and possible scenarios.

	07-03-2003 22:51									#137
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

although in republic corruption may be better. but I do suggest pop rushing at least one building

	07-03-2003 23:05									#138
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True. I think we should try pop-rushing a temple to get the cultural influence.

	07-03-2003 23:12									#139
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I was thinking of a temple as well. The expansion will get us the other iron deposit, and unless GS puts a city down adjacent to it, we would hold onto it for a long while.

	08-03-2003 07:36									#140
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Turn played - and I screwed up last turn. The previous turn started with one turn to go, and yet when I started up this turn, it still said one turn to go. So, I played the turn, and then went back and replayed the last turn to see what went wrong. I was doing tinkering with the citizens, as mentioned. After each citizen move, I would go back and check that I had not affected the one turn to philo. Until after the last adjustment. That bumped it to two. I have written nathan of GS with my apologies, and explaining my error. They will not be happy.

This turn - granary in two from The Voice, and settler in either 4 or 5 after that.

Worker at Elipolis moved to the other forest tile. He will be done in 5 turns, which will give us the 30 shields necessary for a galley.

Moved the Lux worker down to one tile north of the iron mountain, where the road is being built (one turn). He can move onto the mountain next turn, and build a colony the turn after. The worker on that tile can move with him. The road building worker needs to head north. Lots to do up there.

Witt City grows in two turns, and is 12 from barracks. That will speed up with the pop growth. Probably 8 or 9.

Let's hope we can keep peace around us for another 20-30 turns. That will put us in a better position. A few more cities - and some more troops built. Our iron source is very exposed - GS need only cut the road. One plus is that I don't think they can see the iron source - so they may never realize we have it hooked up. They will be expecting a city - and to see its borders. The colony will remain hidden unless they move a lookout around

It is still not too late to get the iron via city as opposed to using the worker for a colony, but as we have seen, those southern cities don't do much. Building a city over the moutains would in essence just be a colony - except for the one shield production. It would appear to be a waste of a city this early, when each means so much. Any comments?

And sorry about the research screw up. Jon - please make my apologies if you are talking to them.

	08-03-2003 13:44									#141
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as for the southern Iron Deposit. I think we agreed to give that to them. Eventually they will place a city adjacent to it.

	08-03-2003 19:22									#142
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Yes - that is what I thought we had agreed to as well. In which case - trying to rush and expand Dissidentville's borders should not be a high priority. It would still be nice though.

And btw- with literature, we can now build libraries at 2/3rds the cost of temples. (40 shields vs 60)

	09-03-2003 02:50									#143
	Increase Your PM Length

1325bc turn played.

Philosophy completed, offered and accepted to GS.

Started Polytheism - 23 turns.

GoW had offered map making - not accepted. I offered back literature and 40 gold. I suspect this will get rejected as I figure they are getting literature from RP.

I offered literature to Neu D - unaccepted - and will use that as an excuse to make contact with them.

Lux worker set to produce a colony on the iron next turn. I moved the warrior to the mountain with him.

The road worker is moving north.

The worker near Dissidentville finished the jungle clearing. I have him building a road - 2 turns - but if we were to move him from the tile without a road - it costs 1 turn anyway - so I saw it as a road for one turn. I don't think it is worth mining the tile due to corruption. As long as we can get two food from the tile.

Elipolis will have the shields for a galley in 5 turns.

The Voice produces a granary in 1 turn - and then 5 for a settler.

Witt City still has 11 turns to go on barracks, but it grows next turn, and should get them done in 9 turns.

Miller Town is still working on a granary. (Can't recall the turns). Both the Voice and Miller Town will be well set to pump out settlers and workers in the in the next while.

And we also need troops.

	10-03-2003 10:08									#144
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We have the 1300 bc save but are sitting on it for awhile to work out some FA stuff, and to make a decision on Miller Town and Wittlich city.

The Voice is finished the granary this turn - and will produce a settler in 5. With map making we can have galley out of Elipolis in 4 turns.

Miller Town has 6 turns to go for its granary - and it will then grow every 5 turns. Which would let it alternate between an immortal and a settler. (btw - iron gets hooked up this turn- finally ).

Or we can produce a barracks next turn, with no shield loss. And have a spearman ready to go on the galley.

Wittlich city can then switch to a library build; it needs the culture growth to extend our influence across the straight - which will be useful if our future city there ever falls into enemy hands. It is very close to our capitol.

Or we stick with the current buld options, use a warrior for Elipolis, and send that spearman on the galley.

Please let me know what you think is best.

I am leaning towards the two granary option. Miller Town is on the lake, so can grow right up to size 12 no problem. And in the long run - it will boost troop production simply from grwoth and shield output - but at the cost of not having much of an army in the short term.

	10-03-2003 10:30									#145
	Inflate your Upload Space

Also I think we can research currency. It takes slightly more than polythesium

we have a choice. We could trade for poly with New demo. Or trade for currency from neu demo. We don't know for sure they are researching this, but I think so. We have yet had any trades with New Demo- so I am leaning towards researching currency.

So I suggest researching currency this turn.

I'll take a look at the save again tonight, and try to come up with some build plans.

	10-03-2003 11:17									#146
	Increase the size of your Attachments

also

RP said that ND had slow tech gain

and we have heard that GoW is learning construction (I think, GS told us soemone was learning construcion)

Jon Miller

	10-03-2003 12:02									#147
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yeah I thought that was Lux. But it could have been GOW.

Currency is our best bet I think.

	10-03-2003 18:46									#148
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OK - but the key question is granary or barracks in Miller Town.

Check out the save Diss, and let me know what you think. I am still thinking granary - but maybe we are risking it going this long without any kind of military. It would delay us by 6 or so turns on being able to produce troops out of Wittlich City.

And btw Witt - we named the strait after you last night in the chat.

	11-03-2003 00:08									#149
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wasn't another turn working on barracks?

I'll load up the save right now and check their production.

	11-03-2003 00:12									#150
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We can complete the barracks in one turn with Milltertown.

It will hold up expansion a bit. But I say yes we switch to barracks for Millertwon.

Wittlich could change to granary if we feel the need.

But I would like to get a barracks out.

Of course the only thing about that is we can only build archers, spearman and catapults. We still cannot build an Immortal.

disregard. we can build the colony this turn. We could even finish an Immortal in one turn. But I say we build the barracks first.