12-03-2003 18:15									#181
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Not sure they would find it so funny. There was clearly bad blood between Lux and ND.

	13-03-2003 05:57									#182
	Increase the size of your Attachments

1275 bc turn played as per the above.

Map Making received for 40 gold.

Elipolis should finish the galley at the end of the next turn, when the workers finish off the forest.

I kept the citizen in MillerTown on the irrigated plains square. We could get the warrior out in two - but it would cut down the pop growth from 3 tund to 6 turns. Figure we could use the growth. So went with warrior in 3, growth in 3.

Also- instead of sending NeuD the full 30 gold as per my letter, I am going to send it in 3 batches of 10. This will hopefully speed up their response on the trade deal.

Research still at 10%. We can still do Poly in 19, or currency in 26.

Letter going to NeuD this evening.

	14-03-2003 17:47									#183
	Increase the size of your Attachments

1250bc turn played.

Screen shots sent.

The will of the people was recognized.

Iron connected via colony.

The Voice produced warrior. Will produce settler in 4 turns. Screen says 5 but it will be 4 with pop growth.

Miller Town finishes warrior in 2, Dissidentville in 4.

Witt City barracks in 5.

AND OUR FIRST IMMORTAL WAS THE UPGRADE OF THE WARRIOR IN MILLER TOWN.

Second worker helped complete the cutting of the forest. At the end of the turn, 10 shields returned to Elipolis, which means the galley is out next turn.

No gold sent to ND.

And research still at 10% on poly. Cranked up to 100% we get it done in 17 turns.

I believe this is the last turn we can afford at this research rate, or we will fall tremendously behind in any research endeavour. We need to resolve some trade matters.

	14-03-2003 18:53									#184
	Put an end to popups!

Beta :

Can you please convert the screenshots to JPGs before sending them?
Every bmp of this size takes 2MB, while a jpg takes 200kb, ten times less. It will save us all a lot of time when downloading the screenshots from the mail servers.

	16-03-2003 18:36									#185
	Got spare money?

1225bc turn played. Screen shot for northern section only is coming (jpeg this time)

Galley produced in Elipolis. I also came up with a better plan to claim Wittlich Ost. I loaded the Elipolis spearman into the galley before heading up the coast. He will be able to unload the spearman on the hill across the straight, before checking into Wittlich City to get the settler and Immortal. This gets us there two turns earlier. It also gives us a spearman to top the stack.

The Immortal from Miller Town is moving down to Elipolis temporarily.

Workers built road on tile north of Elipolis - two get it done in one turn. One will stay behind and irrigate. The other will head north. Other worker is heading north as well. He is under the immortal.

Settler produced in 3 turns. Says 4 but will be three.

Research down to 0%. May as well accumulate cash for deals until we work out a plan.

	16-03-2003 20:13									#186
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quote: This gets us there two turns earlier. It also gives us a spearman to top the stack.

This also gives them warning about our arrival two turns earlier. Hopefully they have no units nearby to unveil the fog.

	16-03-2003 22:07									#187
	Remove this text

Agreed - but if they are going to be immediately aggressive - I would rather have them kill a spearman as opposed to a settler and immortal.

The key here will be to get enough units over to Wittlich Ost to guarantee its survival.

	16-03-2003 23:19									#188
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

did you rename the Immortal?

we can use member names as with the cities. Or just use my fist name. Jim the Immortal. I just want an immortal named after me

	17-03-2003 03:16									#189
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

No - will do next turn.

Also - I forgot to mention - put 49 gold on the table for Poly with GoW and send it back accepted.

And NeuD, sent Poly, and contacy with Lego, and something else - I can't remember. I sent it back unaccepted with nothing on the table.

	17-03-2003 08:32									#190
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I actually like Beta's idea of having a spearman on hill top first (to perform a visual reconaissance and get the region ready for our settler)...besides, the new city on their landmass is going to be called "Wittlich Ost", this indicates the eastern suburb of Wittlich City - which, in fact, it is - after Wittlich City expands, it would have normally included that hilltop...so we are not purposely settleing their land - just claiming what is rightfully ours to begin with.

I like the reasoning behind this action!

	17-03-2003 17:26									#191
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1200bc played.

Bad news. No - the point is still clear - no problem there. But the game converted the current warrior builds to Immortals, and there is no way to switch them back. This affected Miller Town - which would have been finished this turn , and Dissidentville which had 3 turns to go.

We learned something about civ3 in this. It must give you a certain number of turns to complete the obsolete units, then converts the build queues automatically.

Anyways - Miller Town can have a vet Immortal out in 4. Dissidentville and its one shield per turn I converted to spearman. This effectively cost us two immortals. But it does save us 80 gold .

Elipolis to spearman as well until we decide.

Settler out in two. And we have a warrior in The Voice who can be upgraded. But he needs to stay there for crowd control.

Landing at Wittlich Ost next turn.

Workers working on irrigation projects to give more useable tiles to Elipolis, Miller Town, and Wittlich City, all of which need them.

Research to 0%. Adds 12 gold per turn. Treasury currently at 108.

Research times were currency 24 turns at 100% (lose 4 gpt) or construction at 30. I suspect we can buy them cheaper. Unless of course, GoW does not sell construction to keep every one back one era.

Received Poly from GoW. Passed it onto GS. Jon, you may want to let them know. Also, I accepted it. It will be obvious to GoW that we passed it on in one turn. GS may want to wait a few turns - up to them.

GoW also offered contact with Lego. I accepted, but did not offer anything in return.

NeuD offered their world map and contact with Lego. I did not accept.

	18-03-2003 03:23									#192
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So what's the deal with research?

I assume we are going to max out gold and just buy them.

I agree with that. We are so far behind now, it makes no sense to start researching currency.

The only problem is ND is demanding so much for things. I suggest we buy currency from someone else who gets it off ND. Either GOW or RP.

	18-03-2003 04:41									#193
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Agreed. See my post in the RP FA thread. I fully support your idea.

	19-03-2003 03:09									#194
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We could try and get currancy with the construction deal that GoW proposed. Because Construction for a midevil tech is not a fair trade. I think that we should still talk to ND as if we are trying to get a deal done. This will make it look like we are still a long way off from settling on there Continent.

	19-03-2003 05:11									#195
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And I claim this land in the name of The One - for Vox Controli.

Screen shots on their way - status and argha - will need your e-mails. They go in the thread of everything.

Spearman succesfully landed on the hill. No one is in sight. Unfortunately no two-food tiles to use. I still say we build there for strategic reasons, unless we have other ideas.

Galley docked in Wittlich. Settler is out next turn. Miller Town will produce Immortal in 3 turns, not the four as indicated (we are short two shields and can adjsut for the last two turns of the build).

The warrior in the Voice can move out with the settler next turn to get upgraded to Immortal.

Dissidentville could have produced a spearman using a poprush - but we had not discussed this and I'm not sure it is worth it for a spearman.

Workers all working on irrigation projects where needed now, or in the very near future by the central cities. Next priority for the most northerly worker will be to hook up the luxury. We will need it when Miller Town grows to size 4 in 9 turns.

Gold - plus 13 through moving citizens around in the capitol.

No contact yet with Legoland. And no offers from GoW.

NeuD sent back an empty offer table, unaccepted. Not usre if that was a message of some sort.

That white tuskey thing we thought we saw back at the start of the game was the rear end of a cow.

In terms of expansion on Bob - it would appear that there is another row of hills to the west, and the most northerly hill, on the coast, and next to the cow is at first glance very promising. And let's hope there is a river or lake up here somewhere. Someone will need to do a walkabout as soon as we get more settled in. Lets hope we get a few turns to do so.

	19-03-2003 05:46									#196
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Excellent!

I too concur with you Beta - Even though there is a cow (oh well, not a luxury as we had hoped), Wittlich Ost should still be built on the hill top for the defensive bonus and line of sight advantage.

Once we have Wittlich Ost up and running - sure, let us then send out a warrior (or even a regular Immortal ) to scout around and get a feel for the "lay of the land."

I am just so happy that there is no sign of our opponents near to where the city will be going in!

	19-03-2003 14:54									#197
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I say we move our Spear man NW so we can see a little more of the territory.

	19-03-2003 14:57									#198
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

At this point I don't think we should build on the hill. Well, it could be the best idea but I would like to see what is out there before we decide. Never know, could be much better to move a little in land.

	19-03-2003 17:13									#199
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The value is a) its defensive position, and b) more importantly, th command it would give us over the straight. With artillery in both cities, and a few ships, we could charge passage fees.

That being said - it does not necessarily have to be our next city. The hill further west would make more sense from a grwoth perspective.

	19-03-2003 20:29									#200
	Increase Your PM Length

Actually, I still say to build the city on the coastal hilltop as soon as possible. Here's my reasoning:

A. Currently, our spearman sees no other player (they don't know we are there).

B. If we go wondering right now, there is definate chance of running into another civ - then they would know. The gig would be up and this is before we even get a city settled on the landmass.

C. After we have the coastal city founded - Then we can start to look around for some other good city locations.

Right now we have the element of settling this section of land before the other players know that we are there. If we go trapseing around the countryside, we could (and most likely would) loose this advantage. I say stick to our priorities - Get the coastal city inplace and then we can go looking for more possible city sites.

Last edited by Wittlich on 19-03-2003 at 22:07

	19-03-2003 20:59									#201
	Tired of ads?

Yes - good points Witt. I concur.

	19-03-2003 23:33									#202
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Macy wrote: I say we move our Spear man NW so we can see a little more of the territory.

I think it is better to move him W. If you look carefully at the screen shots it looks like you can see the edge of hills next to all the plains. It is easier to see the hill bumps in the west but I think I can also see the rough edge of hills to the northwest as well. By moving the spearman to the west he will be two tiles away from all the edges. If they are hills he will be able to see them.

I like the tile under the cow for settling the city. I know we lose the defensive benefit of the hill but the hill provides little build potential for the city. The hill site is mostly surrounded by water. Water tiles do not provide any shield production. I would rather build under the cow for these reasons:

1. It is still within 3 of Wittlich so a galley can still cross the staight in one turn.
2. Better production and growth.
3. We will need more than one city to solidify our position. Other cities on what appear to be hills to the W and NW will be the true defensive positions. Any units transported will be one tile closer to other cities.

	20-03-2003 07:12									#203
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

1150bc turn played.

Settler produced and moved to Wittlich - will move across and land next turn. City build the turn after. The Voice is now producing spearman. The choices were spearman in 4 or settler in 6. But if we build the spearman first, and let the city grow, we can get the settler in 4 or 5 after that - which is like getting a spearman in two.

Wittlich - barracks next turn - and then it starts producing vet troops.

Warrior from the voice moved to Miller Town for upgrading next turn. Miller Town produces vet Immortals in 2 turns.

Treasury at 133 gold and growing by 10 this turn (the drop is due to the settler being produced).

And NeuD sent another blank screen around.

We should start the debate of whether the next city goes to Estonia or Bob. I suggest Bob - as it will be a race to claim land. We can probably produce one every 6-10 turns now.

	20-03-2003 07:44									#204
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree - For claiming real estate, my vote goes for Bob.


PS - The war to liberate Iraq has just started (6:45PM / 1845hrs PST)

	20-03-2003 09:04									#205
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what is the "usual" build order on new cities?

	20-03-2003 20:06									#206
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We have no usual build order. We decide on each one based on the situation at the time, and changed as the situation changes.

	20-03-2003 21:26									#207
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

thats ok, i normally follow a set build order, just makes it easier in the later stages of the game, but the disadvantage to set order is that some city improvements may not be needed in every city.

	21-03-2003 05:21									#208
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

1125bc turn played

settler crossed over to hill, galley returned to Witt City

Voice - growth to size 3 next turn. Spearman in 3.

Miller Town - Immortals in 1. Warrior from the Voice last turn was upgraded to Immortals at a cost of 40 gold. This gives us two Immortals set to cross over.

Witt City - barracks built. Growth in 3. Immortals in 10 (will be less).

Elipolis - spearman in 8 - until we decide on a build.

Dissidentville - spearman in 9. We need to discuss a pop rush here as has been mentioned elsewhere.

Gold - now 103 plus 10 per turn. Will go up next trn with city growth and new city.

And - outline of new GS city is visible to the SW. I will send screen shots when the new city is built - for both north and south.

No trades - NeuD sent an empty table again - I think they may be prodding us about the other 20 gold.

	21-03-2003 05:58									#209
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well I don't think we should give it to them. Obviously.
But we should contue talking to them. Perhapse we could use the 20 gold as a barganing chip in preventing them from going to war with us, which is what I am afraid of them doing. Not that I think they will, but they might. And they aren't acting very kindly

	22-03-2003 08:27									#210
	Got spare money?

1100bc turn played.

Screen shots on their way.

Spearman on hill moved west one tile - can see - A RIVER!!!! yes!

Settler to south of cows pending final debate. I also like the site NW of the cows - on the hill. Same math as Harry presented - great analysis BTW - but gets defensive bonus as well. We have 24 hours or so to decide.

But next city is clearly on the hill tile on the coast just north of the river.

Two immortals moved two tiles by road to Witt City - caught the galley as it was pulling out - and landed on the continent on the tiles shown - thus revealing the hills.

Workers - on some long over-due jobs that Diss and I have discussed for awhile - 1) connecting the luxury and 2) mining the enhanced grasslands tile just north of the Voice.

We will need to get a worker across to Bob shortly to start Irrigating. And the southerm most worker needs to improve the grasslands tile SE of Elipolis (mine and road) as the city will need it shortly.

Gold at +12 per turn (current treasury is 113).

And NeuD sent around the empty trade table again.

And screen shots show the new land visible on Bob, and the new GS city boundary.

So - we need to finalize the city poll before next turn - and agree on where we build.