07-02-2003 18:36									#121
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Analysis
Science is the key break free from Despotism. Building caravans will offer poor returns with the limited trade arrows generated by our backward form of government. Overseas trade looks difficult because we only know the geography of the Romans and there is no obvious "Trireme friendly" route to reach their shores. The solution may lie in Xinning to boost the science rate. As there is no size 5 city one must be created. It would be wasteful to Xin in Magic Kingdom where Monarchy resources are being enjoyed. The solution is to build up Steamboat Willy ! At the moment we learn a new advance every 10 turns.

Arrange workers to improve the science rate to every 9 turns.

800BC
Settler from Steamboat Willy joins city. Research rate down to 8 turns.

775
Aztecs complete Pyramids. Chinese have changed to Great Library.

750
Population over 300,000; Middleton builds Trireme.

725
The Wheel Now for Construction. Free Willy builds Settlers. Magic Kingdom now size 4 and still celebrating. Make peace with the Romans and give them Republic ... we are in no shape to fight a war!
Research rate still 8.

700
Population 400,000; Two more settlers now join Steamboat Willy which is now Xinning. Research rate drops to 5.

675
Two Roman Horseman have just appeared outside Never Never Land. Romans demand The Wheel, we tell them to Whistle Dixie! WAR our horse kills both intruders.

650
Aztecs start Great Library.

625
Diplomat and Trireme set off exploring.

600
Palace completed at Magic Kingdom
Construction -> Engineering
Donald Duck founded using the whale east of Steamboat Willy. This extra city, the 9th, has caused problems. A red face in the capital - now an an Elvis - to maintain celebrations. Without Ceremonial Burial we can't build Temples but we can have Colosseums To complicate matters further Steamboat Willy, the Xinning city, has acquired an extra unhappy and has an empty food box. Desperate times call for desperate measures ... a settler is being rushed in Free Willy to make Magic Kingdom size 5 so it can now start Xinning! Without the extra science our research rate is 8 turns.

575
Fantasia builds settler, Free Willy builds settler which joins the Capital which is now Xinning the research rate is 6 turns!

550
Now two cities Xinning advances come down to 4!

525
Hut 50 gold
Steamboat Willy again out of food but even with one city pumping out science the tech rate only drops to 5 - Engineering is over half way there

Not the prettiest few turns I've ever played but Democracy is now only 3.5 techs away.

--------------------------------

SG(2)

Attachment: mi_b525.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	07-02-2003 19:28									#122
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Sounds good (2)

SG[1]

For those unfamiliar with 'Xinning' another of Xin Yu's devious exploits the technique is for a size 5 (or larger) city to put ALL its workers (not on trade specials if this reduces science) to Eins - their output is not effected by corruption and as long as the food box is not empty there is no loss of population - even if the deficit is much greater than the food box - generally a city can 'Xin' on alternating turns the off turn being used to put a single sheaf in the food box.

	07-02-2003 19:46									#123
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Not quite sure if the verb to Xin should apply solely to this strategy though........it should probably be more general.

	08-02-2003 01:06									#124
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Hydey ... over to you

Order of Play

Obiwan18 - 15 Turns
La Fayette - 15 Turns
SCG - 12 Turns
SG[1] - 12 Turns
STYOM - 12 Turns
SG(2) - 12 Turns
Hydey - 12 Turns
DrSpike - 12 Turns
Straybow - 12 Turns
-Jrabbit - 12 Turns

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SG(2)

	08-02-2003 02:26									#125
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Well played SG(2) - Xinning was probably the best play there. Had I the Settlers to do it, we could have started earlier. As it was, I was happy just to build Magic Kingdom up to 3 to get the party started

	08-02-2003 02:37									#126
	Got spare money?

Once we GET Demo, then what?

I propose MPE as soon as we can - and trade for some key sciences like Monotheism. Hopefully we can catch up faster that way than by keeping the science pedal to the metal - we'll be shield-challenged and happiness-challenged for a while.

The game would be a lot easier with MPE, and obviously UN. Getting Magellan (gigamap), Michelangelo, and Shakespeare will help a lot too. Anyone else have any ideas?

	08-02-2003 03:23									#127
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It's hard to second guess our position when we eventually change government. My feeling is we are way behind in the science race. (Consulted the High Council ... the science guy was far from happy!) To reap the full rewards of MPE we need to give techs away so they talk to us and by the time we've done that there might not be much left to swap. Even in Democracy we can still steal techs if at war or before we have officially met another civ.

Whilst MPE is a maybe ... the UN is a must have

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SG(2)

	08-02-2003 03:25									#128
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Shakespeare's will probably be the best, followed by Mike's Chapel. We should be able to grow a fair number of cities from WLtPD once we get Monotheism.

Are we still hut-tipping?

	08-02-2003 04:40									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits (Consulted the High Council ... the science guy was far from happy!) SG(2)

The High Council!

I won't tell anyone you did that... it's not too late to edit your post before everyone sees it

Seriously, that might be the only time anyone on Apolyton had a use for those buffoons

I agree with you re UN - will we be able to get Mikes? We're a long way from Mono - for that matter we're a long way from Demo, still!

	08-02-2003 05:05									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man The High Council! I won't tell anyone you did that... it's not too late to edit your post before everyone sees it Seriously, that might be the only time anyone on Apolyton had a use for those buffoons

STYOM ... I use every scrap of information available

The only one to give you any real advice on the council is the science advisor. The rest of them talk crap.
If you are leading in research he will say "We are number one in science"

If number 2 he will say "All is well sire"

Below that you will hear a variety of mumblings ... which is exactly what I received.

I'm never too proud to learn any spinet of information. When I open a succession game I go through all the screens from F1 to F11. How can you reach a desicion about matters without consulting all the intelligence available? Oh hang on there ... you do ... because you take part in the Democracy games where they only post screen shots ... not save files. Don't worry I won't tell people if you don't

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SG(2)

	08-02-2003 05:20									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Oh hang on there ... you do ... because you take part in the Democracy games where they only post screen shots ... not save files. Don't worry I won't tell people if you don't SG(2)

I'm Minister of Science, so I get the save file

Otherwise a Democracy game works much as a real democracy does... the voters only know what the government wants to tell them

Re: Council... I'll spare you the April Cantor jokes, and my post was full of smilies, anyway, so you know it was all a

	08-02-2003 05:44									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Otherwise a Democracy game works much as a real democracy does... the voters only know what the government wants to tell them

I know folk over there have a lot of fun but I think you learn more about Democracy than Civ I trust you keep them on their toes.

I was pleased to see it was a member of the Academy who suggested that a city producing 49 shields might just rehome a unit to make the total = 50 so giving a freight every turn.

But then I would say that cos I'm an Old Git!

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SG(2)

	08-02-2003 05:58									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits you take part in the Democracy games where they only post screen shots ... not save files. --------------------- SG(2)

Yeah I took a look over there but not being able to see things soon makes it quite dull.

	08-02-2003 07:19									#134
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits I know folk over there have a lot of fun but I think you learn more about Democracy than Civ I trust you keep them on their toes. I was pleased to see it was a member of the Academy who suggested that a city producing 49 shields might just rehome a unit to make the total = 50 so giving a freight every turn.

I, and some others have been haranguing all who will listen about the need for more Freight "High Priestess in Space" was very educational re: low science rate and tech every other turn via Freight delivery!

The hard part for me is accepting that there are decisions I have no control over. At least here I can have my own way for 12 turns!

But that's democracy for you. And there are plenty of people around here that couldn't enjoy a succession game if their lives depended on it. Different strokes, and all that.

	10-02-2003 15:37									#135
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Well this game has gone quiet.........I was hoping to get my turns in at the weekend when I could play it at one sitting.

	10-02-2003 18:45									#136
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I guess Hydey's off at the cricket fields again...

	10-02-2003 21:08									#137
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Hydey - come out come out wherever you are

SG[1]

	10-02-2003 23:52									#138
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Maybe he's trying to find the right words to explain how the Romans landed with 3 elephants and conquered all of our core cities?

	11-02-2003 00:19									#139
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Do not say that - even in jest!

	11-02-2003 02:08									#140
	Got spare money?

That would be seriously tricky to recover from.

	11-02-2003 02:27									#141
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This scenario is not as tough as the one DaveV devised about 3 years ago.

All the AI civs started with about 8 well developed cities. Their capitals were all founded on mountains. All huts were wiped from the map and there was no diplomacy... except the constant stream of chariots and elephants they sent into your territory. I may even be able to dig out a save file ... but I'm sure Dave will have one.

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SG(2)

	11-02-2003 16:19									#142
	The High Council Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes - I know its a joke, but seriously the only way I know to determine how I am faring on the Science front (in the absence of embassies) is to ask the Science Advisor on the High Council - and I do this regularly.

Now if there is another way we can dispense with them completely (except April Cantor)

SG[1]

	11-02-2003 18:39									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits ... but I'm sure Dave will have one.

I still have the scenario files, and could generate a save from them.

I created that scenario in an attempt to duplicate the feel of a game against humans, where you actually need to build pikemen, catapults, and fortresses. I enjoyed the early game, when I was fighting for my life, but it turned into a logistical nightmare once I turned the corner. I finally gave up in disgust in the endgame after I bungled an attack which had taken an hour to set up. Kudos to you for sticking through to the bitter end.

	11-02-2003 23:51									#144
	Re: The High Council Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Yes - I know its a joke, but seriously the only way I know to determine how I am faring on the Science front (in the absence of embassies) is to ask the Science Advisor on the High Council - and I do this regularly. Now if there is another way we can dispense with them completely (except April Cantor) SG[1]

I'm seldom behind in tech far enough to have considered consulting Mr Science Guy in the Council. Usually I check to see which techs are white in the science screen, to see how far ahead I am

And a further confession... I only leave the ToT disk in the CDROM, because that's the only disk that'll let me start all of 2.42/MGE/FW/ToT without the 'please insert your disk' message. And of course, ToT doesn't have a Council.

DaveV - post those killer saves from your scenario!

	12-02-2003 00:05									#145
	Full PM-box? Change here!

With a lean and mean run to a key tech you can have several white techs and feel secure - only to discover that someone somewhere has twice as many as you!!

But - yes - we are deity players, we are seldom behind and even less often lose - but fun things can happen - particularly on a Gigamap

SG[1]

	12-02-2003 02:02									#146
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits With a lean and mean run to a key tech you can have several white techs and feel secure - only to discover that someone somewhere has twice as many as you!! But - yes - we are deity players, we are seldom behind and even less often lose - but fun things can happen - particularly on a Gigamap SG[1]

Gigamaps

Still... until this game, I don't think I've ever been more than 2 or 3 techs behind (net) for a long, long time. I learned too well from Apolyton to let that happen

MP... well, in MP I can see getting that far behind!

	12-02-2003 02:47									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man DaveV - post those killer saves from your scenario!

Per request. MGE required (because I don't have FW, and events are used).

Edit: special circumstances: only UN and Apollo can be built. As SG(2) implied, the AI will not negotiate, and will attack with wave after wave of troops/diplos. You have a reasonable amount of time to set up, but it is advisable to establish a defensive perimeter without too much delay.

	12-02-2003 03:19									#148
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Dave - It looks different from the start I played. (Remember furs but not whales.) Have you produced a new one?

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SG(2)

	12-02-2003 17:34									#149
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SG(2) - I'm 99% sure it's the same game. I didn't open cheat mode, but the starting position looks pretty familiar to me.

	12-02-2003 18:22									#150
	Tired of ads?

Could it have a different seed than the one you posted originally?

SG[1]