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Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 01-02-2003 23:59
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quote:

You place more importance on symbology than on human life, yeah, I get it. I just don't agree with it.

It would not have been a tragedy if there was no-one on board. To me the loss of human life is what makes it a tragedy.

I really don't know how it is in the US, but in Israel, this flight was very publicized. I felt really proud about Ramon going to space. Him dying made everyone hurt personally. If I were familiarized to larger extent with car crash victims before they died, I'd feel terribly as well.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:01 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Hey guys -- turn on CNN or your favorite news channel.

President Bush is giving a speech on this tragedy.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
King

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Southern California
Jul 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:04
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you can see it on the internet too.

Kalius is offline Kalius
Emperor
Kriegsgewitter
Aug 2002
time: 16:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:05
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you know 'tis a sad day when you awaken to news like this

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:07
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Dan Rather had an interesting interview with an astronaut who has previously flown on Columbia (sorry, didn't catch his name). In viewing the home video of the accident, the astronaut says he can see a large, white panel coming off (I see it only as a bright light separating from the main bright light), then an explosion, then the breakup. Sounds like maybe a heat shield problem.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
King

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Jul 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:08
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yes it is very sad this to wake up too. I just found out a couple of hours ago. They are saying on the news they think that a failer of some system in the left wing was what caused the break up, but it is only speculation at this time.

cavebear is offline cavebear
Emperor
of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:10
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Perhaps it might be wise not to make any more cold weather launches. I heard today that something fell off at launch, which I did not hear about at the time. It's apparent that cold weather is a serious threat to the available technology.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
King

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Jul 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:10
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I just heard a report that in Iraq that people are celebrating this.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:12 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
I just heard a report that in Iraq that people are celebrating this.



Expected that...

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:13 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Jack -- that can go in the appropriate thread, rather than this thread.

cavebear is offline cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack_www
I just heard a report that in Iraq that people are celebrating this.


If something similar happened to Iraqi's, I would would offer my condolences and sympathy. What *is* wrong with those people? This is just too sick.

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
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ILAN RAM0N: ISRAELI HERO
By ALAN ABBEY
Feb. 1, 2003

On April 29, 1997, the world knew that a real Israeli fighter pilot was to join a NASA crew. He was identified only as "Col. A.," a veteran F-16 pilot who had logged many combat missions and was an electrical engineer, the IDF said.

Col. A. had held a variety of both command and operational tasks in the IAF, including weapons research and development, the IDF said. He was 38 years old and had bailed out of his plane at least once in his career.

It was to be more than a year before the world learned Ramon's name. The IAF does not like to reveal the identities of its pilots, who are usually filmed either from behind or with their helmets on. But its hand was forced when NASA unveiled the name of Ramon and his backup Lt.-Col. Yitzhak Mayo.

Ilan Ramon was born June 20,1954, in Tel Aviv. His wife's name is Rona, and the two had four children. His parents live in Beersheva. He graduated from high school in 1972 and began his military service. He then attended flight-training school.

Long before he received his college degree at 33, he distinguished himself in combat. He participated in the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

"I love to fly," Ramon told an interviewer in 2002. "Flying aircraft -- fighter aircraft -- is great and I was very happy."

He moved on to A-4 and Mirage III-C aircraft training and operations before becoming part of Israel's first F-16 fighter squadron.

In 1974, Ramon graduated as a fighter pilot from IAF Flight School. >From 1974-1976 he participated in A-4 Basic Training and Operations. >From 1976-1980 he was in Mirage III-C training and operations programs.

In 1980, as part of IAF efforts to establish the first F-16 squadron in Israel, he attended the F-16 Training Course at Hill Air Force Base, Utah.

>From 1981 to 1983, he served as the Deputy Squadron Commander B, F-16 Squadron. It wasn't until the day after he flew into space that we learned he had performed an historic mission for Israel long before he flew into space. In 1981, Ramon was one of eight Israeli F-16 pilots who obliterated the French-built Osiraq reactor near Baghdad in a lightning raid that shocked the world.

It was a milestone in Israeli aviation history because the planes flew over enemy Arab territory for hours without detection. The pilots flew in a tightly bunched formation to send off a radar signal like that of a large commercial airliner.

The next year he flew missions over Lebanon as part of Operation Peace for Galilee. From 1983-1987, he attended Tel Aviv University. He received a bachelor of science degree in electronics and computer engineering.

>From 1988-1990, he was Deputy Squadron Commander A, F-4 Phantom Squadron. During 1990, he attended the Squadron Commanders Course. >From 1990-1992, he served as Squadron Commander, F-16 Squadron. He recorded a total of 1,000 flight hours in his F-16 by 1992. He accumulated more than 3,000 flight hours on the A-4, Mirage III-C, and F-4.

Ramon received the rank of colonel in 1994 and took over control of the air force's weapon development and acquisition department.

In 1997, a colleague called and asked if he'd like to become an astronaut. At first, Ramon thought the offer was a joke. It was evening, and Ramon was trying to leave the office and go home. In fact, he had been planning to retire from the air force.

"I told him, 'Come on, I don't have time for jokes now,'" Ramon said last year. "When I was a kid growing up, nobody in Israel ever dreamed -- well most people wouldn't dream -- of being an astronaut, because it wasn't on the agenda. So I never thought I would have been an astronaut. When I was selected, I really jumped almost to space. I was very excited."

He reported for training at Johnson Space Center in Houston in 1998. He brought along his wife, Rona, and their four children, aged 2-10 at the time.

As Ramon began to make the rounds in the media in the last few years, he let out details of his hopes for the flight, as well as personal details that added to the drama and interest in him and his flight.

Ramon said he would carry with him various artifacts that "emphasize the unity of the people of Israel and the Jewish communities abroad." Ramon did not reveal at first what those would be, but said he saw his planned mission in space as a "good stage to proclaim that we [in Israel] need you, and you [in the Diaspora] need us."

He began identifying himself as the son of a refugee father from Germany who fought in Israel's War of Independence, and a mother who survived Auschwitz. Ramon said that serving as his country's first astronaut was part of a "miracle" that stretched back 50 years.

Ramon was not an observant Jew, but said early on that he would eat only kosher food and try to mark Shabbat on board. There have been other Jewish astronauts, including David Wolf who was on the Shuttle Endeavor, and Judith Resnik who died in the Challenger explosion in 1986. However, he became the first to request kosher meals.

"This is symbolic," Ramon said. "I thought it would be nice to represent all kinds of Jews, including religious ones." He joked about affixing a mezuzah to the shuttle's door, but said it was up to the commander.

Ramon said being Israeli did not caused any problems inside NASA.

"Among the astronauts I'm pretty well blended," he said in 2001. "Sometimes they, of course, talk about the 'situation' and that's natural. Most of the time I'm just another astronaut having fun. Nothing special."

Kalius is offline Kalius
Emperor
Kriegsgewitter
Aug 2002
time: 16:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack_www
I just heard a report that in Iraq that people are celebrating this.


Shocking... just like Palistine celebrated after September 11th (IIRC, don't fry me if I'm wrong). Kind of expected though, but sad none the less

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:18 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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EXTREMIST CELEBRATIONS OVER THIS SHOULD GO INTO THE APPROPRIATE THREAD.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
King

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Southern California
Jul 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:18
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Thankfully lots of people I heard on the news say that this wont take to long to find out what happened and start the shuttle program again. They said it is not like what happened with the before that there is not a cover up and that NASA is dedicated to safety more then ever.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:19 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Shocking... just like Palistine celebrated after September 11th (IIRC, don't fry me if I'm wrong). Kind of expected though, but sad none the less



Yes, Palestine did celebrate on Sept. 11, and so they do now.

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:22 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
EXTREMIST CELEBRATIONS OVER THIS SHOULD GO INTO THE APPROPRIATE THREAD.


there should not be a thread that glorifies that , .......

cavebear is offline cavebear
Emperor
of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:22
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When I got up this morning, I turned on the TV and watched The Food Channel for an hour, then the History Channel. I just happened to turn on my radio and heard something about a space shuttle problem. I thought it was it was a disaster-planning exercise (it's a National Public Radio talk show channel that usually discusses serious topics).

It took 10 minutes before I realized it was something real. In the 10 seconds it took to get to the Tv and change to CNN, I was already crying.

Why does it seem like the world is just falling apart at the seams? I just can't stand this any more.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:23
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I heard on CNN that before contact was lost there was trouble witha a tire. Here is what I think happened:

The heat sheild tile that fell off was right below the tire compartment. The exposed area got really hot during reentery and made the tire, which is filled with pressurized nitrogen, exploded. The explosion ripped a small hole in the belly of the shuttle and the heat scorched the radio equiopment and the lost contact. Then the heat started desentigrate the body of the shuttle. when the fuel tanks exploded (those flashes seen on the fireball around the spacecraft) the shuttle broke apart.

It's a sad, sad day.

cavebear is offline cavebear
Emperor
of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:24
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I agree that the political problems of the world should be kept out of this thread. I'll mention that no more. Sorry.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:28 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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Horrible, horrible day.....

123john321 is offline 123john321
King
Boo!
Feb 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:30
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Sorry if I inslut but, whats withe the 1st flag?

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:31 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by 123john321
Sorry if I inslut but, whats withe the 1st flag?
INDIA

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:31
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quote:
What is this going to mean for the international space station. They can't cancel all flights like they did in the 80's. They have to keep that supplied. The russians can't do it alone.

-Dissident

In this aspect, we might see a different response than the Challenger. Perhaps increased funding for space exploration?

As for Ilan Ramon, that's horrible.

Why can't the Israelis get a break for once?

"When I was a kid growing up, nobody in Israel ever dreamed -- well most people wouldn't dream -- of being an astronaut, because it wasn't on the agenda. So I never thought I would have been an astronaut. When I was selected, I really jumped almost to space. I was very excited."

God bless all 7 who have died doing what they loved.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:32 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by 123john321
Sorry if I inslut but, whats withe the 1st flag?


India.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:32 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Indian flag. One of the astronauts was Indo-American.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5-2003Feb1.html

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:32
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India

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:33
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It's very sad.

As a boy I followed the very first Columbia flight avidly and remember it well. It's just terrible when something like this happens, even though the laws of probability make it virtually inevitable.

However, I have a good idea of what the astronauts themselves would say. Something like this:

"We took risks; we knew we took them; things have come out against us; therefore we have no cause for complaint." Robert Falcon Scott

Space flight is one of the most dangerous things anyone can do, and we can but admire the courage of those who undertake it. They themselves aren't like ordinary people - anyone who has ever heard the Apollo 13 mission tape can testify to this - the ship looks like it is going to blow up and the astronauts sound like they are reporting a problem with the drinks machine.

All brave people, committed to the advancement of human knowledge, and knowingly risking their own lives for it. They thought it was worth it; we would do them a disservice if we thought any differently.

123john321 is offline 123john321
King
Boo!
Feb 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:33
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Ah, yes, India, sorry about that...

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 02-02-2003 00:37 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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For the second time in 1 1/2 years, I was awakened from a deep sleep by the radio blaring something other than music.

The first time was Sept. 11, 2001.

The second time was today, Feb. 1, 2003.

I don't know what else to really say at the moment, as I'm still absorbing the information as it comes in. When the Challenger exploded, I was in fifth grade and it was during recess. I remember sitting in the classroom with the teacher and a few others, watching when it happened. I ran outside to tell my classmates, but they seemed to focus more on the football game they were playing. Ah, childhood.

I hope the space program continues. In fact, I want to see its funding quadrupled and, dammit, I'll pay for it with a tax increase on myself if necessary.

Gatekeeper

 
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