14-03-2003 04:33									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

what this seems to me to be is us giving them stuff

and hey theratening us

why is this contnusing to go on?

we ahven't been gaining anything

Jon Miller

	14-03-2003 04:34									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I guess we got this

words

not even euthusiastic words

and we got all that other stuff about not being able to move accross the channel
"
diplomatic relations
Louis has published you letter in our privat forum.

We all think that this is acceptable. There is no need for further delay.

We are looking forward to many years of a friendly relationship with you.

"
Jon Miller

	14-03-2003 04:36									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

BTW

here is their response to our pleas of freindship

You are right concerning two major points.

1. Lux were a funny bunch! We didn't want to eliminate them from the start of the war, we only wanted to cut them to size. But they made promises after promises that were broken or were simply not acceptable to a clear mind. So we just had to chase them to get anything.

2. Reperations is certainly not the proper word for what we wanted the point is, beeing german i speak english to a good amout but not perfect by far so i just lacked a proper word for what we realy want. I hope you understand that. Just read the Letters from ND and have a laugh of our sometimes funny englisch we won't be offended because we know how funny a english native speaker sounds when he writes in german. No hard feelings just keep in mind that we sometimes will use wrong our inapropriate words.

Concerning the trade you have proposed we will have to discuss that in our forum. I think Louis will contact you soon. But as i mentioned before we are interested in allies. Our only main objection will be keep away from Borconia our continent it is already crowded with three civ's so we would not like to see a fourth one. We will keep away from Estonia in return.

promises of nothing, threats against us going over the straight (which is very obvious for us, and way better than fighting GS (where our cities would be hurt by corruption anyeay))

Jon Miller

	14-03-2003 04:40									#64
	Support Apolyton

crowded with 3 civs?

and they had 4 full ones?

they have plenty of space, we are the ones who are already crowded

I mean come on, Lux was there

Jon Miller

	14-03-2003 05:24									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Understood, jon. I am trying to make nice with them until we:

1. Get the trade agreement finalized.

2. And get across the straight.

I am not sure if we are losing something in the translation here - but I also see them as being somewhat paranoid about the Apolyton teams. So we act friendly, and hopefully co-opt their friendship.

Now - if they don't get back to ne shortly on the trade - athen we have to switch research - which is at minimal right now - to currency and cut a deal with RP. Which may be our better bet.

I will not send any further cash their way until we get an answer. And a very positive one.

	14-03-2003 05:30									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I should add - I'm sorry if this was not the intent of the team. Maybe I acted too quickly in handing them literature - but if you disagree with something in the works - please speak up. That's why we have a team.

Thanks.

No more gold to ND until we are in agreement.

	14-03-2003 05:38									#67
	Remove this text

I concur with everything you've posted Jon...and it does seem like the other civs are looking at us for handouts in return for words....


*Wittlich climbs up onto the soapbox*



I bet you all can tell I'm leading somewhere with this....


The main reason I can see why we are receiving thinly-veiled threats is because we are currently militarily weak - and they know it, or at least are assuming as much.

So, this is just another example of needing those iron deposits hooked up and Immortals either being cranked out or upgraded.

I know this will happen eventually, but I'm anxious for it to start happening - For example is a worker currently at the iron deposit building a raod? Or if we are going with the "colony" option, is the Lux worker at the deposit location ready to build the colony? If he is, why hasn't he built it yet?

I realize that building warriors and then upgrading to Immortals is cheaper to perform - but until we actually upgrade those warriors to Immortals, we still have lowly warriors - it doesn't matter what we are eventually planning on doing with them.

*Wittlich steps down off the soapbox*

Sorry, all for the tirade, but I thought I would just get it off of my chest once and for all.

Last edited by Wittlich on 14-03-2003 at 06:21

	14-03-2003 07:58									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well said, Witt. The iron can be hooked up next turn if we want. All the warriors are underway. The worker is on the iron now, just waiting to build. And then we can convert the warriors to immortals. I'm on side with this plan.

But - as I said earlier, for each of us acting as FA, we can only post suggested positions and letters - if you don't agree, please let me/us know. I welcome the discussion on everything.

And I take this to mean that we are NOT keen on trying to forge an alliance with ND. Which I am OK with. But then we do need a tech strategy - and it is either switch to currency or shut it down and try to buy the techs in around 20 to 25 turns or so.

And jon - you will have to tell Gs what we are planning.

	14-03-2003 08:02									#69
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And no response as of yet from NeuD.

	14-03-2003 19:41									#70
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

sent this morning:


Darekill

Greetings from Vox Controli. We are wondering why we have not heard any reply to our overtures of friendship and trade.

Please let us know. Thank-you.

BetaHound.

	14-03-2003 21:23									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

response .... hmmmm

Hello,
i'm sory but our ambasador, Louis seems busy this days and i have also a lot to do.
please be patient i'm sure that louis will respond real soon.
If he wont find the time to write you, i will do it tomorrow. Is that ok?

Greetings Darekill

	14-03-2003 21:28									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

and my response:

We would like a reply by early tomorrow please. I'm sure you appreciate why we see it as important that we commit to these trades now. If you are not willing to do so - please advise.

Thank-you. I look forward to hearing from you or Louis.

Regards - BetaHound

	14-03-2003 21:41									#73
	Increase Your PM Length

Sounds like they are delaying. Could be thinging/trying to stop us from settleing. I think they know our intentions. This could be a problem. We must carry out our plan with hast.
I think once we have a good force of Immortals they won't be so quick to threaten us

	14-03-2003 22:08									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree Macy.

	15-03-2003 00:12									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yup. 5-6 turns to landing. Fingers crossed.

Dissident is also trying to reach a separate deal with RP.

	15-03-2003 02:15									#76
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

SO have we given up on a trade with ND?
If we have lets get to work on RP. Lets also strat working on GoW. maybe we can still get a trade with them.

	15-03-2003 13:12									#77
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

what exactly is the plan.

You wanted to seel our currency to RP right? not try to get it from them right?

I'm not sure if you bumped our research up yet that's why I'm asking. We may as well research currency I suspect.

	15-03-2003 18:34									#78
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is getting messy. And Diss, as you have stated, we need a plan.

We are currently part way into Polytheism, and can finish it 15 turns, but as the following message from NeuD indicates, they have it already. I'm not usre whether they got it from RP, or maybe Lego. I will send a letter off to Lego shortly.

So - with NeuD having it, and RP researching or completed it, it doesn't make sense to search it. I get the ominous sense that we are being shut out of the continental trade circuit. Lego may be the key.

Or we switch to currency, (26 turns) and try and cut a deal with RP, who may have already reached a deal with NeuD. That was the thinking Diss, If you can find out anything from RP, it would be helpful. The last we talked in the chat they were still 20 turns away from completing it. In which case, NeuD may have got poly from GoW from Lego.

The other option is we pay cash for Polytheism. Offer RP or Neu D 80 gold for it. Completing the research ourselves would cost around 150, so it would be a great deal - and when a few civs get the same tech, the price really drops.

Here is NeuD's message. Note the 'stay off the continent' clause. (and note they have already passed the save on - the note came in the early morning for me)

Trade
So, we have the Save now and i'm going to keep it for at least the next six hours.

Please tell me what you are interestet to trade. We will put it on the screen.

Here is what we offer.

our Map for your map and 20g.
We can manage contact to legos but it did cost us 50g so we want at least 50g in return.
we have gained polytheism, philosophy, map making.
we are researching on currency. slow but we are on our way.
We can offer a "non agression pact" for 40 turns or less if you promiss not to settle on Borconia. We would in return promisse not to settle in Estonia.
If you have any questions please contact me.

Last edited by Beta on 15-03-2003 at 18:57

	16-03-2003 01:38									#79
	Get a bigger avatar today!

no deal

that sucks

and we ahve already gaven them a tech plus money

and I bet that they traded literacy for some of that from Lego (Since Lego didn't have literacy, it was the one tech we ahd that they did not)

Jon Miller

	16-03-2003 01:39									#80
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yah

this is deffinitely true, ND had everything that GoW had (which was everything we had but Literacy)

and Lego traded for everything GoW had

so what left to trade with ND, but literacy

we just got screwed

Jon Miller

	16-03-2003 03:06									#81
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yes - would appear so.

Looks like cash purchases.

	16-03-2003 03:11									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller one of the considerations, is that to me, GoW seems to be the most freindly, while RP and ND seem to be the least freindly that is why I would think that ND might be a better target than GoW (I think that RP is too far to be our target) Jon Miller

Agreed!

Sorry guys, I thought that ND would see the value of an alliance/friendship and that it could be translated into future tech trades. I was mistaken. I guess for a screw-up like this - I will be facing a pay cut.

Jon and Diss - do you want to start discussions with GoW - or perhaps we should get ourselves established first. Or do you want to see how it plays out?

	17-03-2003 12:48									#83
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That is ok. When I was reading the post, it sounded like there was no strong opposition to giving Lit. for better relations in the future. But it seems like ND just wants to take and never to give. Now we have Poly from GoW.
One question. WHat do we research now?

	18-03-2003 07:40									#84
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Proposed response to NeuD. I am trying to keep talking to them, so they don't think we have crossed, and will delay sending anyone to check it out. On the other hand, this may raise suspicians and prompt them to do so. The other option is we do nothing - which is basically what this letter says anyway. Suggestions?

Dear Louis and Darekill, esteemed representatiives of Neu Demogyptica.

Greetings from Vox Controli. I apologize for not responding sooner to your earlier letter, or you offers sent via the game save.

We are in possession of the technologies you offered. We may be interested in currency, depending on the price and when you will be finished it.

Regarding contact with legoland, thank-you, but we will be obtaining contact shortly.

We would like to discuss further the idea of the non-aggression pact. Why did you specify 40 turns or less? And why is it contingent upon your stated limitations on expansion? This is not clear to us, and seems threatening in its tone. Can you clarify please.

I trust that peace is treating you well, and that your nation prospers.

Regards .... BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli

	18-03-2003 09:40									#85
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You are right Beta - Keep the diplomatic talks flowing (ie, stall tactics)...at least until we've settled the new city.

	19-03-2003 02:59									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes I agree. Let's look like we are considering there deal to stay off there continent. That way it will look like we are still a while away from landing.

	19-03-2003 06:45									#87
	Remove this text

OK - above letter sent to Darekill of NeuD by PM, exactly as worded.

	19-03-2003 09:28									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It appears to me that they had just come off of their 'victory-high' and were looking for someone to intimidate by rattling their sabers and we jumped, but this might work to our benefit in the future yet.

	19-03-2003 15:40									#89
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

1. keep talking to them about a "deal"
2. Keep with plan to settle
3. get friends on the continent. (I will be working on this as well)
4. get MORE settlers across. It will be easier, and make more sense to the international community if they only have to ask/force one city off "their" continent. Very hard/stupid to aks a civ. to remove 3 to 4 cities off a continent.

	19-03-2003 23:39									#90
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: 4. get MORE settlers across. It will be easier, and make more sense to the international community if they only have to ask/force one city off "their" continent. Very hard/stupid to aks a civ. to remove 3 to 4 cities off a continent.

Plus it is a lot easier for them to block one city (especially on the hill site) and make it effectively useless for us.