01-03-2004 17:18									#181
	Increase Your PM Length

I will follow-up - and advise them of the road and railway plans.

	02-03-2004 10:27									#182
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Email received from Vondrack:

quote: Hi, Jared! Last Thursday, I emailed Beta we were ready for a chat he proposed some time ago, but I have not received any response yet. I believe that with Democracy coming this turn, we really need to chat some - at least making sure we spend our research funds in a meaningful way in the nearest future. Let me know if we could meet today or tomorrow - preferrably before you play your next turn. And if it's impossible - I suggest you halt your research, saving cash, until we deliver ToG & Magnetism to you (we shall discover ToG this coming turn and easily do Magnetism in 4 turns then). If we are to keep it to the email only, I would very much appreciate learning what is the maximum research output you can generate at 100% - assuming we provide you with the gold needed to cover your costs. Cheers, Radek aka vondrack

	02-03-2004 10:34									#183
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

And my response. I hope you don't mind that I went ahead and responded to his inquiry Beta.

quote: Good evening Radek, Yes, we were planning on sending our research back down to 0 for the next few turns until we enter the next age per your PM from several days ago. I don't know if I'll be able to get into a chat anytime soon. The only times I can chat are the times you specified as not being able to. Plus I have some personal issues going on that may limit my time for the next couple weeks. If you and Beta can get together for a chat that's great. As to our research numbers, I pulled some rough numbers two turns ago: - At 100% science we generate 164 beakers per turn with -38gpt loss. - At 70% science we generate 117 beakers per turn with -5gpt loss. - At 0% science we generate 76gpt. We will have 6 marketplaces and a bank within the next 12 turns that will add about 44gpt to that total. Those numbers will rise as our empire grows more, but not a lot and not very quickly. It will take a while to build the next wave of improvements (universities and aqueducts) though if we can get some rails going and get electricity for the irrigation ability then our growth will progress a little quicker. Thanks Rhoth

	03-03-2004 08:14									#184
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Message sent via e-mail with the 670 ad save:

quote: Greetings from Vox. Here is the save. It comes with Democracy, accepted. Also - note the pic. GS galley spotted 8-7-7 of Issac Newton. We have two caravels in the area as well. Not sure what is up? ...Beta.

	03-03-2004 17:21									#185
	Tired of ads?

And his response:

Hi, Beta!

> Here is the save. It comes with Democracy, accepted.

Thanks!

We have finished Theory of Gravity this turn, Magnetism comes in 4
turns (pity you can't do a tech in 2 turns...). We will deliver both
techs at the same time (unless you, for some reason, prefer getting
ToG sooner).

> Also - note the pic. GS galley spotted 8-7-7 of Issac Newton. We
> have two caravels in the area as well. Not sure what is up?

Most probably just charting. We have another GS vessel (a galleon)
charting the ocean about 10 tiles to the South/South-East of that
galley. I do not think there is a reason to worry.

Also - I have briefly communicated with Rhoth. He said you were
shutting down your research until we deliver Magnetism and ToG, which
was exactly what I was going to suggest. Get Metallurgy, we provide
you with Magnetism and ToG in 4 turns (720AD).

I think it might be a good time for a chat now. We could talk about
our plans, your plans, research etc. If you are available, let me
know. I can chat basically from 5am GMT to 24pm GMT, with some
exceptions, varying from day to day.

Cheers,
Radek

	04-03-2004 07:15									#186
	Put an end to popups!

Received via email from Vondrack

quote: Hi, Jared! (Hi, Bruce! > Yes, we were planning on sending our research back down to 0 for the > next few turns until we enter the next age per your PM from several > days ago. Good. I was not sure if that message made it to you, too, or not (plus, I am not sure how many active members you still have - Beta sometimes sounds like he and you are the whole nation of Vox now). > I don't know if I'll be able to get into a chat anytime soon. The > only times I can chat are the times you specified as not being able > to. Plus I have some personal issues going on that may limit my > time for the next couple weeks. If you and Beta can get together for > a chat that's great. No problem. I emailed Beta and will see if we are able to meet. If not, the crucial moment will come only in 4 turns anyway - depending on what tech you get for free, we will have to agree on the research paths. Off the cuff... if you get Nationalism, you go for Communism at an easy pace (police stations). If you get Steam Power, Nationalism would look viable to me (probably at 100%, using extra funding from us). Medicine would suggest Sanitation, I believe (pre-arranging deals with everybody for it). I am basing these ideas on your maximum beaker output - with the techs you'd be able to go for costing from 2160-2880 beakers (Sanitation is 2160, Medicine is 2400, Nationalism, Steam Power, and Communism 2880), you will be able to research them in like 14-18t, maybe a turn or two faster (with extra funding from us, which should not be a problem). In order to avoid researching a tech someone else researches + in order to avoid researching key techs slowing down everybody else (incl. us), it would be best to go for a tech as cheap as possible, or as likely to be neglected by others as possible. > As to our research numbers, I pulled some rough numbers two turns > ago: > - At 100% science we generate 164 beakers per turn with -38gpt loss. > - At 70% science we generate 117 beakers per turn with -5gpt loss. > - At 0% science we generate 76gpt. We will have 6 marketplaces and a bank > within the next 12 turns that will add about 44gpt to that total. This is quite impressive, coonsidering what you have to work with! > Those numbers will rise as our empire grows more, but not a lot and > not very quickly. It will take a while to build the next wave of > improvements (universities and aqueducts) though if we can get some > rails going and get electricity for the irrigation ability then our > growth will progress a little quicker. Our own plans are quite simple: Steam Power for RRs first, then Electricity for irrigating without fresh water. Not sure what next then, as I am not 100% sure whether we should still try to get Hoover or waive it in favour of GS (if they planned their prebuilds/research right, we should not have a chance to get it - they should beat us to both ToE and Hoover). GS getting it would not be a problem, as even with Hoover, they would still remain behind everyone else. I believe that it all depends on what your free tech will be. If it's Steam Power (highly unlikely, I believe), it might be worth giving it a try, I think. If not, then it would probably be better to strike a deal with GS - they go for ToE and Hoover, we go for the techs in the middle part of the tech tree (and Suffrage, I suppose). They are too far ahead of us research-wise and we cannot catch up properly due to the 4-turn research limit imposed by the game (we could do techs as fast as in 2t these turns). If you get a tech they are not doing and try to deny it to them (or delay it significantly), they'd probably scream foul - and they'd be quite right, I believe, since one of the conditions for the peaceful Voxodus was that your free techs would be available for fair trade to them, too. We are expecting Military Tradition from GoW this coming turn. As long as they deliver it, which is very likely (trade agreement signed, our part fulfilled), then there will be little to discuss before your free tech. One last thing - if you happen to need saltpeter at any time, just ask. We have two extra sources. Take care, Radek

	07-03-2004 22:23									#187
	Put an end to popups!

to Lego:

quote: Hi Radek. Are dyes still available. The 20 turns ended last turn - and we had a few happiness issues. It is something Rhoth and I will have to pay more attention to. If possible - can you re-send the lux this turn. Many thanks from your friends at Vox. And btw - closed most of our democracy deals last turn. Rhoth even obtained a deal from ND ( ). Cheers ... Bruce

I followed this up with a quick aknowledgement that they had already played the turn, so if they could start it up again next turn, it would be appreciated.

	18-03-2004 11:11									#188
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Beta if you want to communicate this with Vondrack...our new numbers are 184 beakers with -45 gold at 100% research. But like I said in the moves thread that deficit will be going up soon as we finish some defenders and cats, the harbors in the south, and a worker every 3 turns.

I'm kind of bummed now that we didn't switch Memory, Seabiscuit and Renewal over to universities before completing the markets. We'd likely be over 200 beakers if that were the case. Oh well, my fault.

	18-03-2004 17:18									#189
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Beta if you want to communicate this with Vondrack...our new numbers are 184 beakers with -45 gold at 100% research. But like I said in the moves thread that deficit will be going up soon as we finish some defenders and cats, the harbors in the south, and a worker every 3 turns. I'm kind of bummed now that we didn't switch Memory, Seabiscuit and Renewal over to universities before completing the markets. We'd likely be over 200 beakers if that were the case. Oh well, my fault.

Will get in touch with vondrack.

As to the universities, hey, my fault as well. And it was only when Lego talked about the heavy research plan that we realized we should have done it the other way around.

	18-03-2004 17:25									#190
	Inflate your Upload Space

Chat with Lego

I updated Rhoth in chat one night regarding the chat I had with vondrack last week. Forgot to post the highlights. Here they are:

Foreign Affairs

Lego and GS do not talk with each other.
Lego still talks and trades with GoW.
Lego has become closer to ND as of late.

Research

Lego will continue to keep us current in tech. They are in their GA, and researching at a very fast rate.
We will help out with our free tech, and will research specific dead end techs (eg sanitation)
General expectation is that we will get Nationalism as our free tech.
We, Vox, can expect to go to 100% research shortly, and Lego will fund our deficit.

Military
Lego is ready to come to our defence in case of invasion.
They suggest we build sufficient city defenses, and complete the road connection south of Panama Vox. We will be railroading soon.
I suggested we would concentrate on naval power after that - vondrack thought that made sense.

That was the gist of it.

	20-03-2004 00:11									#191
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

An email from Vondrack to Beta and I.

quote: Hi, Jared! Hi, Bruce! Just a quick note - unless you get Steam Power, do NOT send your free industrial tech to us. We do not really need rifles yet (actually, we strongly prefer doing a couple more muskets first, as we have several 30S cities quite fit for 2t muskets, while we have no 40S city able to build 2t rifles), nor we need Medicine. No need to make it any cheaper for those that may (be) research(ing) them. GoW is doing Medicine ATM, that we know for sure - let them spend as much as possible. The only exception would be Steam Power - that is a crucial tech for us, which we need urgently. Besides, GS already have it, and GoW will get it from GS (in exchange for Medicine, if I deciphered it correctly from my chit-chat with Master Zen), so no big deal making it cheaper. If it is Steam Power, send it immediately, please. My personal suggestions: If you get Nationalism, go for Communism (Police Stations). If you get Medicine, go for Sanitation (Hospitals). If you get Steam Power, go for Nationalism (Rifles). This should make it very likely that you are first to research whatever you decide to research. Also - think hard about if you can meaningfully use some gold. We might be able to help, if it really helps things. Our Golden Ages truly are "golden"... Cheers, Radek aka vondrack

	20-03-2004 00:15									#192
	Remove this text

Hopefully we will receive steam power, but if we do get medicine or nationalism then we won't send it until they are ready for it.

Regarding the gold, if they are still willing to finance our deficit then we will need roughly 50 gold per turn from them, but that will go up to around 60 in the next few turns. That will allow us to run 100% research, otherwise we have to keep it dialed down a bit.

Beta can you talk with Vondrack and see if they are still willing to send us 50+ gold per turn? Then we can set that up so they can give it to us starting next turn and we can go 100% research. If they can't send that much then we can of course dial our research down a to 90% or 80% so that we don't have a big deficit.

	20-03-2004 08:15									#193
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sent vondrack an e-mail basically quoting your last post Rhoth. I expect they will respond quickly.

	21-03-2004 06:53									#194
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The letter I sent to Lego with the savegame:

quote: You're up. We did indeed receive Nationalism as our free tech. Whenever you want it just say so. We are going full bore toward research of communism and should have it in 16 turns. Our current deficit is 41 gold after we picked up a few gpt from a trade deal. But that will go up to around a deficit of 50gpt in about 3 turns. If you are able to send us that much each turn then it would certainly be helpful. If not we will dial the research slider back down.

	24-03-2004 01:25									#195
	Inflate your Upload Space

Received from Vondrack via email

quote: Hi, guys! > You're up. We did indeed receive Nationalism as our free tech. > Whenever you want it just say so. We are going full bore toward > research of communism and should have it in 16 turns. Our current > deficit is 41 gold after we picked up a few gpt from a trade deal. > But that will go up to around a deficit of 50gpt in about 3 turns. > If you are able to send us that much each turn then it would > certainly be helpful. If not we will dial the research slider back > down. We have briefly discussed the situation in our forum an it seems we would prefer you researching Communism at less than 100%, not losing money. Unlike, say, Medicine or Sanitation, we believe the benefits of Communism (i.e. Police Stations) are not needed that urgently at the moment... we/you better save the 50gpt. OTOH... we would be happy to assist you with some gold, if you are able to use it reasonably. We were thinking of helping one or two of your cities to finish (through shortrushing) all or most of the comm and sci improvements (library, university, marketplace, bank, perhaps temple & aqueduct, too), so that they'd be able to focus on building arty and/or defenders, while bringing the maximum commercial benefit. Would ~500g help in this regard? Let us know. We would like to see you arranging the deals for Nationalism with everybody... we know that ND is extremely keen on acquiring the tech because of security reasons (we would suggest a looooong luxury deal with them - like 1 luxury for 40 or, even better, 60 turns; it would cost them "nothing", so they should be happy to take it, while you'd be able to grow your cities a bit more without running into happiness problem). Trading Nationalism with GoW for Medicine would be cool, too - if you can make them add 20t of wines to the deal, even better (it's amazing how much waste one can save by operating cities in WLTKD). And the most important thing would be to trade Nationalism for Electricity with GS - as we would prefer not researching Electricity ourselves, trading for it with GS (most probably for Industrialization). It would be worth arranging all deals in advance, so that everybody (but us, perhaps) gets the tech at the same time. Rifles are powerful and providing only some teams with them might make them "ponder" about things... We will keep building muskets for few more turns and ask you for Nationalism only after our GA end. We plan to quickly finish Steam Power now, continuing with Industrialization and probably Corporation then - and further down that branch, perhaps with a short detour for Replaceable Parts. One last thing... would you be able to send us your World Map this turn? Just wanna improve our ocean charts a bit. Thanks. Take care, Radek aka vondrack on behalf of Legoland

So basically we'll turn down the slider and send the map to Lego. I'll see about seeking deals for nationalism. Unfortunately I've already told GS we want luxes and gold, but I'll see if we can get electricity from them instead.

	24-03-2004 01:37									#196
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Regarding their offer of 500 gold, with that and some of our gold we could rush marketplaces in 2 of the 3 cities we switched over to universities when we thought we were doing straight research. Now we'll need the added bonuses to gold again so we'll need to get those markets going.

	24-03-2004 07:18									#197
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

We may need to run the projections out a bit - but where we have cities jammed up at pop level 6, would it not be better to rush aqueducts. Growth equals gold and research capability.

You might have to run a model out 30 or 40 or 50 turns to see what the medium and long term advantages and disadvantages are.

I can tackle this if you like Rhoth. But I know you love stuff like this. Let me know.

	30-03-2004 12:15									#198
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Sent with the 750ad save to Lego. I forgot to ask about the gold so can you do that Beta? Thanks.

quote: You're up. We set up a deal with ND for nationalism for gold and a few more luxury deals once we have the population. Still working on the deals with GoW and GS, though both want it. :-)

	03-04-2004 12:41									#199
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Sent to Lego with the 760ad save

quote: You're up. Thanks for steam power. :-D As I'm sure you already know we have a source of coal so we'll be starting our rail network right away. It won't be up and running quite as quickly as yours since we have a lot of mountains and hills to rail, but we should have a good start on it soon. Also, you had mentioned a while back about the possibility of sending gold our way if we could use it. We're in the process of trying to finish up marketplaces and universities in all our major cities before aqueducts (and hopefully electricity from GS). If that offer still stands then we'd like to take you up on it to finish up the last few major commerce boosting buildings. Also, on the diplomatic front, the only finalized nationalism trade so far has been ND and we received three more future luxury options and gold which was immediately used to rush universities. We're still waiting to hear back from GoW and GS. GoW thought the idea of nationalism for medicine and a luxury option was fine but MZ has been busy so I haven't heard back yet. GS is still debating a nationalism and democracy for electricity and luxuries deal. Regards, Rhoth

	03-04-2004 13:42									#200
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Response from Vondrack

quote: Hi, Jared! The offer still stands - how much gold would you need? Let me know ASAP, I am just playing the turn - if it is within the limits agreed upon in our forum, I could send the gold this turn. Radek

And my response...

quote: Hi Radek, You had mentioned 500 originally and that would be fine for us. We could use it to rush a marketplace and gear up to rush a second soon. Thanks, Jared

	05-04-2004 12:04									#201
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Copy of email sent to Lego with the turn. Beta can you discuss with them their view on the ND proposal? Thanks.

quote: You're up. Thanks for the gold. We received an interesting proposal from ND about tech research today. Beta should be contacting you about it soon.

	06-04-2004 00:38									#202
	Increase Your PM Length

I noticed Vondrack was online so I went ahead and sent this to him to get their opinion. Sorry Beta, I hope I didn't step on your toes.

quote: Hi Vondrack. I try not to impose on Beta's job as Lego ambassador, but the turn is moving quickly and I'd like to get your opinion on this deal that ND is offering. Obviously we can't go for sanitation at the moment and I told Zayxus that. I'm of course leaning toward doing this since it would not only give us gold for sending them tech, but I just wanted to get Lego's thoughts on the matter. The original proposal: quote: quote: Hello! Neu Demogyptica offers Vox a deal about a technology. ND would like to offer 150 Gold / Turn for the adequate number of turns, for example 16 turns for Sanitation. I'm looking forward for your answer. What about a deal, where Legoland researches along the main Technologies and Vox or ND research for the other Technologies like Sanitation? Best regards Zayxus I sent a PM back to him stating that Vox would discuss it. Today he sent another response. quote: Hello Rhothaerill! Turn 780 is rather near to ND; and I would like to support the research of Vox as soon as possible. What about, if I send you next turn 150 Gold in trust for a deal of research; and you may send it back, if you decided in another way? Or should I keep the save until tomorrow evening to let Vox have more time to decide? Best regards Zayxus To that I sent back to not hold up the save, just send us the money and if we can't work things out we'll return it. Regards, Rhoth

	06-04-2004 01:51									#203
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Initial response from Vondrack

quote: Hi, Jarred! Honestly, I am shocked by how much they offer... the deal indeed looks extremely attractive, as they basically offer the full price of Sanitation... Well, without going into too much details: we offered ND sort of a research/luxury pact - like they'd supply us with luxes & gold (MUCH less than what they offer you, though) and we'd keep them in the tech race by trading them all mandatory industrial techs we would research ourselves. So far, it seems the deal will go through, as Zayxus sounded very agreeable when I presented it in a chat last Thursday. So... ND buying even more techs from you would fit well into the grand scheme - the less gold they have to buy stuff from GoW/GS, the less business they do together and the more ND is attracted to "us" (meant Vox/Lego). That definitely sounds attractive, as our primary goal for this era is to keep the world divided, preventing a gang-up on us, hopefully further increasing our lead. OTOH, Sanitation is a bit troublesome starting point... first, you've already invested quite a lot of beakers/gold into Communism... second, you don't have Medicine yet, do you?... and third, we have already approached GoW with a proposal to trade The Corporation for Sanitation. Nothing binding yet and we haven't got any response from them yet, but still... if they say yes, it would look strange and unfriendly if we suddenly changed our minds. So, my suggestion would probably be to respond very favourably as far as the general idea is concerned - yes, you will be happy to trade them techs for gold, but you need to finish your current research project first, as you already have a deal signed for it (yeah... more or less, you have ). Once you're done, you can revisit the idea and make a deal on a specific technology, perhaps even Sanitation (though I still think Sanitation would be better acquired from GoW). Generally, I'd say that an arrangement like this would be extremely beneficial to you. I can imagine you could use an unlimited amount of ND gold... and as I said, it would fit nicely with our high-level strategy for the industrial era. So, I think I'm going to leave this up to you. If you think the gold would be worth it, I don't think we would mind too much you scrapping the Communism research and starting Sanitation (assuming you'd actually be able to). We suggested Communism to you pretty much out of necessity - it was the only uncontested option... Hm... not sure if any of this babbling helps. Besides, it's just my personal recommendation, nothing official (I am going to post your PM in our forum, though). Take care, Radek aka vondrack

	06-04-2004 01:53									#204
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And the response from the update.

quote: Hm, sounds like Zayxus does not really know what it is he wants. But anyway - I PMed you with my opinion few minutes ago. It stands. And I will add more in case someone in our forum comes up with something ispiring. BTW - how many turns to Communism? Cheers, Radek

Followed by my response to him

quote: That was my thought as well. I PMed him a response to keep us in mind if they do decide to pay us for the research. I read your opinions about the deal. They are pretty much what I had thought too, I just wanted to run it by Lego to make sure they weren't trying anything funny. Not that sending us 150gpt is 'anything funny' If they come back and want to deal then I will work something out with them. I certainly wouldn't mind taking their gold for something we are researching anyway. As to switching to sanitation it is currently not something we can do as we still haven't received response from GoW yet about the nationalism for medicine trade (you aren't the only ones not to hear from them). I sent a 'friendly reminder' over the weekend and it still hasn't been read. We currently have 21 turns to finish communism. Regards, Rhoth

	13-04-2004 21:16									#205
	Tired of ads?

I had sent an email with the save about our deal with GS. Here is Vondrack's response (and it includes what I sent).

quote: Hi, Jarred! > You're up. We've worked out a deal to get electricity from GS for > nationalism by agreeing to a 30 turn NDA instead of the normal 20. > Party at the irrigation district next turn. That's an excellent piece of news! We shall hopefully strike a deal with GS pretty soon, too (Electricity for Industrialization and some gold). We did not push it and waited for them to come to us with the deal proposal... which eventually happened. Anyway - glad to hear you are now able to irrigate. You needed it much more than we did. Though we needed the tech to get close enough to the Replaceable Parts... Cheers, Radek aka vondrack

	14-04-2004 12:55									#206
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Note from Vondrack

quote: Hello, Jarred! We are out of our GA and do not plan to build any more muskets for upgrades, so we'd appreciate getting your Nationalism, so that we can start upgrading. Also - your WM would be nice... hopefully lifting the shroud in the Northern Seas. As we successfully traded Industrialization to ND, GoW, and GS, its research cost ceased to be an issue and I sent it your way as 'accepted' this turn. Best regards, vondrack

	14-04-2004 12:56									#207
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And my response.

quote: Nationalism and the WM will be on their way next turn. The world map won't show much more than last time though. Thanks for industrialization. Rhoth

	18-04-2004 21:40									#208
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sent to Lego with the save.

quote: You're up. We have almost completed a deal with Roleplay to send them nationalism for cash, however they have requested our world map as well. Part of the New Voice treaty was that we cannot send our world map to anyone without the prior approval of Lego so I need to ask whether we have your approval or not. I attached a screenshot of what we do know of your area so that you know what we'd be giving them. Thanks, Rhoth

	20-04-2004 00:41									#209
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Email from Vondrack. Lego has no problems with us sending our WM so my opinion is that we just send it. When I get home tonight I'll work out the beaker output and send it to Lego...unless you want to do it Beta. I've kind of usurped your role as Lego ambassador and I feel bad about it.

quote: Hi, Jared! We see no problem with you trading your WM to RP (or to anyone else, for that matter). You may remember it was Vox inserting the clause on the map trading, we did not feel strongly about it (as it's primarily a matter of your security, not ours... even though your security is our problem, too . From the screenshot you sent, it seems you know as much or even a little bit less than what is generally known, so go ahead and trade the map to RP, if they desire so (they have been obsessesed with getting maps of Legos since the beginning of times . How many turns to Communism? What is your current beaker output (and what is your maximum beaker output and gold deficit at 100% research)? Anything you might need from us? Best regards, Radek aka vondrack

	21-04-2004 02:27									#210
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Email to Vondrack

quote: Hi Vondrack, Per your request... We are currently researching communism at 50% science with a +6gpt surplus. We will receive it in 13 turns. At 0% research we currently gain 85gpt, though that will rise in a few more turns when some of the lesser cities complete marketplaces. At 100% research we have 213 beakers per turn with a loss of -67gpt and it speeds up research to 7 more turns. By the way, we're also starting work on our navy now. About 10-15 turns and we'll have several warboats in the water. :-D Regards, Rhoth