17-03-2003 22:08									#1
	Neu Demogyptica - correspondence Got spare money?

[DG]helios replied to my PM I posted a while ago in another thread. Here it is:

quote: vondrack wrote on 17-03-2003 04:39: Greetings, I am truly sorry to see that such a mistake happened - it was probably that we got both the contact (getting it "twice", as GoW gifted it to GS on that very same turn) and your map. While the map of Bob is certainly interesting to see, we do not have any intentions to invade it, so its real value would probably be difficult to measure with money. Alas, what happened, happened... this is further complicated by the fact that Gathering Storm received our contact from GoW on the last turn, so there was no need to buy it for 50 gold from you... effectively, we bought your world map for 50 gold - that's what really happened. Could we let this be that way? I understand you may not be very happy about this, but I can see no way to revert it back. I did my best to prevent misunderstanding, PMing you right after playing our turn, explaining what those 50 gold were offered for... I believe that redstar1 explained that it is our team policy to not trade our world map (this effectively means that your world map will never be traded to anyone else, either). But... maybe... not sure if you consider this worth considering... do you have any idea about the discovery date for the Currency you are supposedly researching? There may be a deal possible regarding this technology. Best regards, Radek aka vondrack President of Legoland

quote: Greetings! I think we can live with this trade. 50 Gold for our WM was a good price. Now you see the whole Bob We have Currency in ca. 20 rounds and we will contact you, when it is finish. What are you researching now? Best regards, helios

I believe it is time to propose them a deal on Currency!

	18-03-2003 01:39									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yay!

	18-03-2003 01:42									#4
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops

OK, so lemme precise what Leo suggests here...

They say they are like 20 turns from discovering Currency. Combined with some more intel we have, it looks like they are researching at about 14 beakers per turn... if they shut their research down for 10 turns, they should be able to save about 140 gold. So, if we ask for 90-100, they should be quite happy, shouldn't they? They get the tech 10 turns earlier + they save some gold. Should gain us yet another happy Bobian smiling at us.

Add your comments, please - we should make them an offer ASAP, to minimize losses... I would go for 90 or 95, to avoid the figure looking too high...

	18-03-2003 02:10									#5
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Sounds good. However if we include a no-whoring clause (even though I don't know who they could possibly trade with; we will give most probably Currency to eveybody on the same turn) the price might go down a bit.

Edit: typo

Last edited by Tiberius on 18-03-2003 at 02:19

	18-03-2003 02:14									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Sounds good. However if we include a no-whoring clause (even though I don't who they could possibly trade with; we will give most probably Currency to eveybody on the same turn) the price might go down a bit.

Agreed - let them enjoy a little bit of haggling over the price.

	18-03-2003 02:18									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yeah, 90 sounds good to begin with, and we could settle on 80 (or maybe even 70, to show our gratitude for the WM; maybe we'll repeat the trade some day ).

	18-03-2003 02:42									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

OK, seeing nobody objecting, I have sent the following PM to [DG]helios few minutes ago:

quote: quote: Greetings! I think we can live with this trade. 50 Gold for our WM was a good price. Now you see the whole Bob We have Currency in ca. 20 rounds and we will contact you, when it is finish. What are you researching now? Best regards, helios Hello! Glad to know that you are okay with the deal as it eventually ended up. I admit that we enjoyed having a peek, even if we do not intend to set our feet on your soil ever. Now, as for the Currency. My reason for asking you about it was that after making contact with GoW and (almost) catching up tech-wise, we - quite randomly - chose the Currency as our next research goal. We are now 10 turns (at most) from discovering it. We believe it would be wasteful, if you continue researching it, as you would finish your research several turns after we traded it around anyway. So, here comes our proposal: shut down your research and stockpile cash for those 10 turns (it may be 9, but 10 is guaranteed). We will sell you Currency on the very turn we discover it for 90 gold (preferrably arranging it so that you offer 90 gold a turn before, we counter by throwing in the Currency and "accepting", and you close the deal the turn after by "accepting", too). We'd respectfully ask for a non-whoring clause (i.e. you would not be allowed to resell it for a given number of turns), but as most teams would be purchasing it on the same turn anyway, it would be more or less just a formality... Let us know if you consider the price fair and if you are interested in pursuing the deal. Best regards, Radek aka vondrack President of Legoland

	18-03-2003 12:30									#9
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My guess: they will accept the deal as it is. They won't bargain, even if we would eventually lower the price a bit. They are germans

	19-03-2003 03:06									#10
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OK, to keep everybody posted, here is a rather dull chat held a bit unexpectedly earlier today with guys from ND:

quote: Session Start: Tue Mar 18 19:44:20 2003 Session Ident: #Legoland2 Jack_www: well did your team get a chance to look over the deal? helios: yes helios: i have posted the whole pm Jack_www: That is good Jack_www: any feed back yet on weather your team likes it or not? helios: yes many team members think that we have spent many ressources on currency helios: too much to stop it Jack_www: yes but if you go with deal you get it faster Jack_www: then you can start with anther tech Jack_www: But i see what you are saying Jack_www: understandable helios: faster perhaps Jack_www: is there anyone who wants to accept the deal helios: but also it would be more expensive Jack_www: because of the resreach you put into it? helios: yes we research it for a long time helios: and we are not very liquid ... Jack_www: well we believe that it would just cost you the same if you conitued to reasreach, the way the deal is now. Jack_www: but what price would you be willing to pay for currency? helios: hmm its a difficult question Jack_www: plus think of the money you can make by getting currency 10 turns early Jack_www: you will get markets sooner Jack_www: would you be willing to make a gold per turn payment, instead of a lum sum payment Jack_www: of say maybe 4 or 5 gold per turn? helios: this would not be a different Jack_www: well the deal we present would make it so you will make more money in the end run Jack_www: if you get markerts in your cities sooner Jack_www: also the gold per turn would be different because you would not need all the gold up front helios: hmm helios: perhaps you are right, but the position of our members was that they thougt it is too expensive helios: and it would be better to research it on our own... Jack_www: well we believe that it would just cost you the same amount maybe even less with this deal Jack_www: and like i said markets sooner means more money Jack_www: but if you want to resreach it on your own helios: yes but markets have to build first Jack_www: we dont mind, just through your would be interested in the deal helios: yes thanks for the offer * [ND]Darekill has joined #legoland2 [ND]Darekill: Hi legos! helios: hi darekill Jack_www: hello Darekill [ND]Darekill: what were you talking about? Jack_www: we were just talking about the currency deal [ND]Darekill: ah i see. [ND]Darekill: it's funny that we research the same thing. helios: yes Jack_www: well what I just said to Helios here that we offered a gold per turn of 4 or 5 gold per turn for currency Jack_www: Here is the hole summery of our deal as it stands now Jack_www: we will sell you curency in ten turns for 4 or 5 gold per turn Jack_www: and you can stop reasreching currency Jack_www: and save up your money for other projects Jack_www: that way you can get currency in half the time Jack_www: also you can spilt the payment Jack_www: like pay some upfront and the rest per turn Jack_www: what ever suits your team helios: what will you research next? Jack_www: we have not decided yet Jack_www: we are trading techs with other teams Jack_www: so we dont really know what we will get in the trades Jack_www: thus not sure what to resreach next helios: hmm i think we should think about it... helios: about your offer, i mean [ND]Darekill: the problem is we donmt see no other resarch right now and we like to research for ourselfs... Jack_www: well for the ten turns Jack_www: you can just cut back on resreach Jack_www: and still have it on currency Jack_www: and save your money [ND]Darekill: We could speed up our research and be ready sooner... Jack_www: but what other techs would you want? [ND]Darekill: maybe monarchy Jack_www: well some other team is researching that tech for a couple of turns right now Jack_www: but we have not made any deals with them as we are not interested in Monarchy [ND]Darekill: well there are not so many choises left. [ND]Darekill: choices [ND]Darekill: let's say we consider your offer. We have the time ten turns are some time to think! Jack_www: well just to ask again Jack_www: what price would you like to pay for it? [ND]Darekill: helios will keep the contact Jack_www: aalso we can wait for the ten turns as well helios: yes of course Jack_www: so that is not a problem [ND]Darekill: we have to calculate it through. So i can't give you numbers now. Jack_www: ok, again we are in not in any rush Jack_www: if you wish Jack_www: you can come back after you calculate the price vondrack: k, I am back vondrack: whoa! vondrack: what an honour! vondrack: welcome, Darekill [ND]Darekill: at your service vondrack vondrack: sorry to miss you before - had something to do elsewhere [ND]Darekill: the honour is on my side! vondrack: lots of diplo talking this evening vondrack: Jack_www: well it is early in the day for me. [ND]Darekill: and i'm sorry but i have to go. vondrack: vondrack: ok vondrack: I will read the log then vondrack: 'twas a pleasure to meet you vondrack: both of you, I mean Jack_www: bye Darekill helios: cu darekill [ND]Darekill: no problem we will sure meet more often in the future vondrack: bye * [ND]Darekill has left #legoland2 vondrack: I certainly hope so vondrack: well, gimme a sec, I will skim through the log Jack_www: is there anything else that you wish to talk about? Jack_www: besides the deal helios: so i think, i should talk with our members in the next days and i will contact you then... Jack_www: ok Jack_www: i will await you pm Jack_www: and if you wish to chat again Jack_www: this time and day are perfect for me helios: yeyes its a good time vondrack: ok, seems I was able to catch up just in time to say good bye ) Jack_www: but if you wish to meat at a earlyer time Jack_www: that is ok Jack_www: too vondrack: take your time to decide, helios Jack_www: but not too much earlier vondrack: our offer stands for the next ten turns vondrack: no hurry Jack_www: yes the offer is good for the a while Jack_www: so you have time to talk Jack_www: with in your team Jack_www: and we can talk to our team Jack_www: well i will talk to you latter helios: ok i will send you a pm in the next days... vondrack: good vondrack: take care, helios! vondrack: cya Jack_www: cya helios: you too helios: cu vondrack: vondrack: bye Session Close: Tue Mar 18 20:42:40 2003

The best thing now is, IMHO, to do nothing. We offered a deal. We know it's fair. Let they get back to us, we have no need to beg them.

	19-03-2003 14:15									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius My guess: they will accept the deal as it is. They won't bargain, even if we would eventually lower the price a bit. They are germans

Well, I lost this bet
I don't really understand these guys. They don't want to give us money, but why? This treaty should bring them some money, too. What is the reason not to accept it?

	19-03-2003 18:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You were half wrong Tibi. The did not accept, but they did not bargain either. It would seem they would have had a counter proposal. Instead, the answer is YES or NO.

	21-03-2003 14:35									#13
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OK, I have just PMed the following message to [DG]helios:

quote: Esteemed ambassador! This is just a quick idea that has recently emerged in our team forum... where we were debating why you chose to not accept the Currency deal we considered quite fair and clearly advantageous for both sides... One of our members suggested that you may have your own Currency-related deals pre-arranged and thus need to be able to trade it around, at least to an extent... which the proposed no-whoring clause would prevent you from. Now, if that is the problem, I suggest we meet again. The fact is, that we have not arranged trading Currency to all the other teams yet... and the reason may be that some of them have a prearranged deal with you, thus not feeling like trading with us, waiving the deals already made. We may be happy to trade Currency to you together with rights to sell it to a team or teams of your choice... on condition that it does not interfere with our own trades, of course. Is this something that might change your mind regarding the proposed deal? Best regards, Radek aka vondrack The President of Legoland

	02-06-2003 07:30									#14
	Suffering from ads?

I think we should approach ND about a Theology deal. I'd very much like us to be the one to sell it to them, so that we can tack on a no-Sistine; due to their Religious trait, I consider them one of three prime candidates for Sistine's (the other two being Vox and GS, due to the chance of GLs).

	03-06-2003 02:34									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Commenting on info from the RP thread: If ND is the next one to go under the dogpile after GS, I think we should consider dealing favorably with them now, propping them up however we can BEFORE war; RPers and GoW can't be mad at us for support we gave before war.

	03-06-2003 02:40									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hm, the thing is that it is quite uncertain who's next after GS (with Darekill possibly replacing [dg]mav_son, things may get fixed for ND)... and I believe that it will take QUITE some time before GS leave us...

ATM, I would suggest treating ND as an ordinary trading partner.

	04-06-2003 08:42									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, you're probably right... it isn't certain.

I'd still like us to approach them with a Theology deal. A no-Sistine clause plus 150-200 gold in exchange for Theology?

	10-06-2003 10:32									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

draft PM to Darekill:

Darekill,
I request an urgent meeting with you to discuss your activities on Legos. Please contact me or one of my fellow Legos as soon as possible.

Thank you,
ZargonX

	10-06-2003 14:47									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

After talking to ZargonX in the morning, I was assigned the task of negotiating with ND regarding their scout Arne today.

I will be posting all the comms with ND here.

My first PM to Darekill and his response:

quote: quote: Hello, Darekill! There seems to be an issue that needs to be handled personally, rather than through PMs/email. I am having a trade proposal to discuss with you, but it needs to be discussed today. It seems I am the only online Euro in our team today, so I have been our negotiator this time. Be so kind, please, and PM me back about the time you and/or your ambassador would be available to meet on IRC (I will be checking my PMbox frequently today). Thank you very much in advance, vondrack, VP of Legoland I'm sorry but i don't have the time today. I've published the PM in our Forum and i hope to find someone to chat with you.

My follow-up:

quote: quote: I'm sorry but i don't have the time today. I've published the PM in our Forum and i hope to find someone to chat with you. Sorry to hear you have no time today, Darekill. I hope someone will be able to talk to us, though - the matter really is quite urgent. As you are probably able to figure out yourself, we need to talk about your scout Arne that appeared unexpectedly close to our territory. Sincerely, vondrack

	10-06-2003 15:39									#20
	Got spare money?

Borc PMed me, offering to chat:

quote: Hi vondrak, i would have time for a short chat today... please write me an email to borc@cylusion.com if you have time we can meet us at www.cylusion.com/neudemogyptica yours Borc

My response:

quote: Hello, Borc! I'd be most happy to have a chat with you. Would it be too impolite if I asked you to meet me at Apolyton.net? There is a Java based chat available there, too (http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/room.shtml, so in case you need to chat using just the browser, that should do (if you are using mIRC, just connect to Apolyton.net). At Apolyton.net, I would be able to log the chat, making it easy to report to the team afterwards (I would also be able to send the log to you). I will be hanging in the #Legoland room from now on. Just connect to Apolyton.net, please, and "/join #Legoland" (there is no password set at the moment). Once there, say "VONDRACK" (all caps), please - that will draw my attention to the IRC client I am usually running in the background only. Thanks for your prompt response. Best regards, vondrack VP of Legoland

	10-06-2003 17:14									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Great, here goes the log of my chat with Borc:

quote: * Borc has joined #Legoland Borc: hi vondrack vondrack: Hello, Borc! * vondrack sets mode: +o Borc Borc: i am sitting in my office and it is possible that somebody will disturb me from time to time vondrack: ok, no problem, I will know what's going on if you need to remain silent for a bit vondrack: now, to keep you as little as possible, I will go straight to our point, ok? Borc: so you have seen our scout arne ;-) vondrack: vondrack: yup, it was quite a surprise vondrack: you - apparently by chance - came through a very narrow stripe of land we have under the fog of war Borc: yes and we saw "alexander", that was his name right? vondrack: yes, Alexander Borc: "fog of war"? vondrack: now, to make it clear - I am speaking here officially for Legoland, even though I am not the President, nor FAM vondrack: yes, FoW - territory we do not fully "see" Borc: ok vondrack: like the territory where barb camp appear... vondrack: ok, back to what I was saying vondrack: I have certain limits I need to respect, but I have a certain degree of freedom regarding the trade proposal I am going to make Borc: i understand vondrack: I will have to bring whatever we may agree upon back to my team, but as long as it is within the limits I was given, it will be accepted vondrack: now, for the proposal vondrack: I have to admit that we are not entirely thrilled with the possibility of Arne charting more of our interior vondrack: we would very much prefer agreeing on a deal that would involve him leaving and us giving you something in exchange vondrack: do you think this could be a possibility? Borc: it is a possibility, yes... anyway i am one of totally 4 ministers which are the government now of ND (darekill, zayxus, zerialienguru and borc) vondrack: I understand Borc: so i probably have to contact the other 3 first vondrack: we can make no "official" deal until approved by your team vondrack: that's ok vondrack: I just wanted to know if it's ok to go on with the trade proposal... Borc: yes, please... vondrack: now, before I start making offers... is there anything specific you would like to get? Borc: maybe a map o your continent ;-) vondrack: vondrack: hehe Borc: just i joke, i understand vondrack: at the moment, here is what we can offer RIGHT NOW: gold & Theology vondrack: plus vondrack: we can also discuss future tech deals, of course vondrack: may I ask you about your current research goal? vondrack: we are currently researching Education Borc: our current goal is engineering vondrack: good, that makes it easier, I guess Borc: do you have engineering already? vondrack: would you be interested in trading for Theology? vondrack: Eng: no, not yet, but we do have a deal prearranged Borc: arnes withdraw for theology? vondrack: well, that would be a little bit too cheap perhaps... vondrack: but you are not that far away vondrack: here is the idea: vondrack: in exchange of Arne returning E-E to the coast and sailing back to his beloved homeland vondrack: we would provide you with Theology for a VERY low price in gold vondrack: there would be just one more condition vondrack: I hope it will not be a problem Borc: yes? vondrack: I will explain a bit first vondrack: you probably know that Legoland has only one luxury of its own vondrack: (Dyes) vondrack: in order to allow our people live their happy lives vondrack: we will have to heavily invest into happiness improvements & wonders Borc: you only have dyes?! vondrack: yes Borc: ahh vondrack: one of the key wonders for us would be the Sistine's Chapel vondrack: we are trying to arrange deals with other teams Borc: i understand! vondrack: allowing us to build this wonder vondrack: with no competition vondrack: after all, wonder races are costly for everybody vondrack: GS lost the race to Pyramids to us by 1 turn only vondrack: (did you know that?) Borc: no, waoo! vondrack: so, here comes the deal in its full: Borc: ---:[/b] phone call, just one minute... vondrack: ok vondrack: I will type the proposal in full now vondrack: you can read it once you are done with the phone call Borc: thx vondrack: in exchange for Arne heading straight back home, we would provide you with Theology for gold and this "no Sistine clause" (as we use to call it) vondrack: before I go on and say any gold sum vondrack: may I ask you what you would consider a fair amount to balance this trade? vondrack: I am trying to make this really a "deal" for you vondrack: a good one, for that matter vondrack: lump sum or gpt, whatever you'd prefer Borc: ---:[/b] ok, phone call ended, i start reading ;-) vondrack: np, take your time Borc: for me this deal sounds very interesting, does it also mean we can not ship your coast lines? vondrack: we would not mind you circumnavigating our landmass - as long as you do not land any units vondrack: I would even go as far as agreeing to your ships sailing through our territorial waters Borc: we have seen landmass in the very north - does it belong to "your" continent? vondrack: as long as your units never set foot on "our" soil vondrack: probably yes... there are two parts of this landmass, connected with a very narrow isthmus Borc: northwest of panama, yep vondrack: yes, that is Legos Minor vondrack: regarding Legos Minor Borc: i understand vondrack: scouting that area would be less of an issue for us, though we would still prefer vondrack: if you keep just to the water vondrack: there is one problem with Legos Minor vondrack: it is heavily infested with barbs vondrack: so you would not be able to land just a scout vondrack: since he would be dead in two turns Borc: right vondrack: you would have to land a military unit vondrack: I have to admit I am not authorized to say "it would be ok", but I do not want to say "it would NOT be ok" vondrack: honestly vondrack: It would not be worth the hassle vondrack: the reason why we did not settle that part of our landmass vondrack: is that it is quite rugged terrain vondrack: LOTS of mountains vondrack: very few truly good tiles Borc: yes we can see a bit there vondrack: we would like to keep it a "reservation"... sort of... vondrack: you know - like Yosemite Park... vondrack: I will tell you something... you may find it amusing vondrack: when you were warring with Lux Invicta vondrack: they were heavily negotiating with us vondrack: for a refuge on Legos Minor Borc: ahhh :-) vondrack: but Voxes ended that plan... vondrack: to be honest vondrack: we would like to keep that part of our landmass vondrack: as a refuge for a team that will get "exterminated" next vondrack: it is a place that does not allow vondrack: to grow back to a sufficient strength Borc: so i hope we never will visit that legos minor :-)) vondrack: but decent enough to allow that team stay in the game Borc: not in this way, haha vondrack: LoL vondrack: yes, I will keep my fingers crossed for you Borc: i have a proposal... we will FREEZE arne for the next turn, so we have a bit time to discuss your very interesting ideas in our neudemogyptian forums, what do you think? vondrack: that would be acceptable, yes Borc: i will do my best to tell my people your ideas Borc: can you make a chat log here? vondrack: would you like me to send you the chatlog? vondrack: vondrack: yes, of course vondrack: I will send you the log once we are finished here Borc: YES, wiuld be great! i will post it in my forums and then we will have resluts soon! vondrack: great vondrack: I have no idea why we have so little diplo contacts vondrack: it is a pleasure to talk to you vondrack: certainly MUCH more pleasure than some other teams... Borc: you are far away , its a pitty vondrack: heh, we are far away from just about everything... ) Borc: we have a sandwich position between RP and GoW that keeps us busy :-( with them all the time vondrack: yes, that's what we figure from the map vondrack: being the middle one is never the best position vondrack: we are going along very well with GoW Borc: yes and i am sure you can see our jungle world vondrack: yes, we can - we have one of our own on our landmass vondrack: thanks God we are industrious Borc: so your relations with GoW are better than with RP? vondrack: my teammates will scold me for telling you... vondrack: but yes Borc: ok, it will stay a secret vondrack: maybe from the "official" point of view, they are just as fine vondrack: but I guess you best know how RPers conduct their diplomacy Borc: and are you involved in the GS-Vox War, we notn but i will have a chat wit zeit from GS tonight Borc: ---:[/b] sorry phone call again :-/ vondrack: np vondrack: re: Vox-GS war - no, we are not directly involved vondrack: though we maintain business relations with both parties vondrack: which probably helps one or both warring parties vondrack: as you correctly put it... we are too far away vondrack: we are not very excited about GS grabbing the whole of Estonia, but it seems quite difficult to prevent that from happening Borc: ---:[/b] phone call ended vondrack: ok vondrack: well, what about this: vondrack: 1) I send you the chatlog of this conversation vondrack: 2) I send you a draft of the "trade agreement" involving Arne, Theology, and all the stuff I was talking about vondrack: I will put no precise gold amount vondrack: you post everything in your forum and discuss your idea of the fair gold amount Borc: thats fine! one last question... vondrack: until we agree on the deal or officialy "disagree", Arne stays put vondrack: yes? Borc: would you be interested in a luxury instead of gold vondrack: theoretically, yes - but there is a major problem Borc: yes? vondrack: until we discover Astronomy vondrack: we are unable to trade over sea tiles Borc: right, sorry vondrack: and that's at least 25-30 more turns Borc: but we should remeber this possibility for the future :-) vondrack: but I am quite sure we will be able to work out fine deals in the future vondrack: yes Borc: and you already have a deal preparing engineering vondrack: one more curious question... Borc: yes? vondrack: yes, we have already signed a deal on Engineering - we are used to sign our tech deals well in advance vondrack: the question: vondrack: do you remember our offer on currency? vondrack: if it is not secret, what made you reject it? vondrack: we honestly believed it was a win-win deal... Borc: a long time ago... hm... i take a look in our forum... wait please vondrack: and were surprised you chose to spend money on the research vondrack: no problem... I was just curious, don't waste your time Borc: we had a very good offer for currency... hmm it would be better to tell you the details 1000 years later :-) vondrack: LoL vondrack: right Borc: but it was nothing against you vondrack: no problem vondrack: we knew it was nothing against us vondrack: were just puzzled about your reasoning vondrack: anyway vondrack: I am happy we were able to have this chat vondrack: I am going to send you the log and the trade proposal in written Borc: i think as soon as possible i tell you the results of our people and then maybe we make a new chat soon vondrack: that is a great idea! Borc: hopefully just after the next "freezed" arne-turn vondrack: I would like to see more contacts between our two civs vondrack: ok vondrack: since we are doing lots of business with just about everybody - but you Borc: at least we both shoudl chat more often now vondrack: yes vondrack: I would be happy to become our ambassador to your team vondrack: our current ambassador... vondrack: is... vondrack: rather is not... vondrack: here, actually vondrack: last time we saw him months ago, I think Borc: actually i am the ambassadro fot GoW, GS and now also for Lego as it seems vondrack: which is a shame for us vondrack: good! vondrack: vondrack: won't keep you any longer then Borc: yes sorry, but work is work vondrack: the chatlog will be with you within a few minutes vondrack: it was a pleasure talking to you vondrack: have a nice day Borc: anyway i am sitting in front of my mail and we can have a chat very soon if you write me a mail vondrack: ok vondrack: I am working from home Borc: whenever you want vondrack: sitting at my comp all the time vondrack: I check Poly and my email every 10-15 minutes Borc: ah! you are from which country? vondrack: Czech Republic vondrack: vondrack: close to you, eh? Borc: great GMT+1 as we are i am from munich vondrack: yes, it will never be the problem of different timezones... vondrack: but I am often staying up very late in the night anyway vondrack: did numerous chats around 4-5am my time vondrack: when Americans were best available Borc: Darekill and i we have families and thats why we stand up very early (5-6 asm) :-)))) vondrack: I see Borc: 5-6 am Borc: old men vondrack: I have just a wonderful girlfriend ATM, no kids vondrack: she wakes up early - usually shortly after I go to bed )) vondrack: good, back to work now vondrack: looking forward to talking to you soon again! Borc: oh, take care! my wife hates civ3 but my son is 8 and he starts playing civ3 already vondrack: Borc: ok, bye, have a nice day! vondrack: np - she loves me telling her what's going on in the PtWDG vondrack: bye Borc: ) vondrack: Borc: oh i know the problem )))) * Borc has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

	10-06-2003 17:31									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And here goes the draft I have sent to Borc:

quote: Hello, Borc! I am hereby sending you the draft of the trade we were discussing during our chat. I intentionally left out the gold sum. If your team is ok with the rest of the draft, feel free to come up with your own idea of the fair balance in gold. A lump sum paid immediately, lump sum paid on a certain turn, gold-per-turn payment - whatever suits your plans best. I take it I have your word that Arne will not move on the next turn - we shall play our turn with no unnecessary delay then, hopefully sorting the situation/deal out until we get to play our next turn... quote: 1) Legoland agrees to provide Neu Demogyptica (ND) with Theology immediately after signing this agreement. ND agrees to not resell/trade/gift this technology to any other party for 20 turns from receiving it. After these 20 turns, ND agrees to not trade Theology to any other team, unless that team also agrees to not build Sistine's Chapel as part of the trade. 2) ND agrees, in exchange, to provide Legoland with XX gold pieces and withdraw Arne the Scout from the Legoland landmass via the shortest route (E-E from the position he was on Turn 110, then aboard a boat). ND agrees to not attempt to chart the Legoland landmass other than by sailing around its shores. 3) ND agrees to not attempt to build Sistine's Chapel as long as Legoland remains in the game. Best regards, vondrack Legoland

Speaking to ZargonX & Kloreep in the morning, we informally came with 50 gold as "just fine" - since it is actually the no-Sistine clause (and Arne's prompt departure, of course) we are after... the gold is there mostly to make us look not like "kissing ND's...".

	10-06-2003 18:13									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have a feeling that they will offer more than 50. I'd guess 100 (maybe 5 gpt).

Anyway, nice chat. I missed only the "... otherwise Arne will be impaled in Karina" part, but heck, you can't have everything you want

	10-06-2003 18:46									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I have a feeling that they will offer more than 50. I'd guess 100 (maybe 5 gpt). Anyway, nice chat. I missed only the "... otherwise Arne will be impaled in Karina" part, but heck, you can't have everything you want

Yes, we can't have everything.

I wanted to make it as little confrontation as possible. Fortunately, Borc was very reasonable, too. I never had to even mention hostilities. I believe they're well aware of that they have nothing to gain by going hostile towards us - Arne would be dead this very turn and they would be unable to even avenge his death (with just a single coastal city) for many turns.

And agreed re: the gold they may offer. At least I hope so.

	12-06-2003 09:05									#25
	Support Apolyton

Just to keep you up to date, this has been waiting for me in my mailbox this morning:

quote: Hello Vondrack! We are discussing your draft in our forums. we did not move Scout Arne this turn. I am sure we will send you a answer very soon! good luck Borc

	14-06-2003 11:56									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This fresh from Darekill:

quote: Hello Vondrack our People have finally worked out a proposal concerning the so called "Arne's springbrake affair": We will take Arne back. we understand that you don't want him at Legoland so he will leave. See he is a merry tourist and not a pest. We do this so you see that we realy have no bad intents. We are really interestet in Theology and agree to the folowing. a; We will not enter Legoland in the next 50 turns if you promise not to enter Borconia in the next 50 turns too. To furhter extend this we offer a NAP for 50 turns up to the year 500 AD. b; we will not give theology to anyone in the next 20 turns. c; we will not build the sistine. d; If we are to give theology awya after the 20 turns are over We will only do this if they promise not to build the sistine too These terms are not so easy to accept for us as it may seem because: 1. We already have an alternative source for theology but they need a little time before they can give it to us. 2. Beeing a religious Nation, the sistine would be a path for us to a golden age. We would give this up and that is something to mention. 3. Under the given conditions it is very unlikely that we can resale the tech. We accept that but of course it has it's price. The last point for the trade was that you wanted some mony too. Money is the one thing we do not have enough to give it away easy. So here is what we can offer there: We give you spices for 20 turns for free but to do so we need a harbor that can be rushed for about 50g. If you gave us the money to rush the harbor we give you the spice. So you have the spice, the withdrawel of Arne, the security that we do not build the sistine and not give away the tech too soon, a long term NaP with us and a trustworthy tradespartner. We get theology now and not later. What do you say? sincerely Darekill consul of Neu Demogyptica

Bascially, at first sight, I believe it sounds acceptable (as spices for 20 turns equals ro roughly 50 gold, maybe more). PLUS, they are actually offering a 50-turn NAP, which really is a very good thing for us (we haven't even though about getting this).

But I will think this over a bit and add my comments later today.

	14-06-2003 12:06									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hm, can't help myself, but think of ND's message... so the comments are here sooner then promised...

I believe we should take it with just minor adjustments. No rush, let's delay our response for 1-2 days, but I think it is a fine deal.

1) WE GET THE NO SISTINE CLAUSE
This is actually golden... even if we got nothing else, it would be helpful - keep in mind that getting a no-Sistine clause actually makes building Bach's, too, even more likely. VERY important for us.

2) WE GET A LONG NAP
Another very good point. As we wish to be left alone for as long as possible, this is an extremely fine stuff for us. 50 turns basically covers the period of Ansar Warriors.

3) as for the spices...
I would explain we do not have a harbour yet, plus that we would not be able to trade anyway, as we have to discover Astronomy first, to be able to trade over sea tiles. So I would suggest including the spice bit into the trade, but would make it so that "Legoland will receive spices free of charge for 20 turns once such a trade becomes technically possible" - this way, we save 50 gold, they do not get a cheap harbour they want and we get the spices later on, when they are more valuable for us.

	14-06-2003 13:38									#28
	Remove this text

quote: 1. We already have an alternative source for theology but they need a little time before they can give it to us.

Who that might me? Is GS working on Theology or is it somebody from those who we are selling to.
In the first case it is bad, because it would hinder our no Sistine negotiations with them. No one else is working on Theo, that's for sure.
In the second case, maybe we should tell ND that we made the same conditions to everbody who we sold Theology to, so they wouldn't be able to build Sistine's anyway.

quote: a; We will not enter Legoland in the next 50 turns if you promise not to enter Borconia in the next 50 turns too. To furhter extend this we offer a NAP for 50 turns up to the year 500 AD.

Not only they want a NAP but also we won't be able to land on Borconia (read: Bob) for the next 50 turns. I wonder: are they up to something and want us to stay out? Because otherwise why would they care if we land in Spain, for instance?

Anyway, it is not a bad treaty. They really wanted to give us something in exchange for Theo and apparently they don't have money, or more likely they are keeping it for upgrades.

	14-06-2003 17:56									#29
	Suffering from ads?

A little bit of extra communication:

quote: quote: Hello, Darekill! Acknowledging the receipt of your proposal. I can't speak for the whole Lego team, but for me personally, it would probably be acceptable with a minor adjustment - that is because we do not have a harbour ourselves yet (and will probably not have one for 15-20 more turns), plus we'll not be able to trade with anyone until we discover Astronomy, which is going to take some time (sea tiles block all possible trade routes for us). So I think we will ask to change the spice bit (which I understand is basically the replacement for gold we asked for) so that you would agree to provide us with 20 turns of free spices once the trade becomes technically possible. We would omit that 50g harbour rush contribution, as you should be able to finish your harbour in the meantime (and if not, it would be considered a valid obstacle to the "technical possibility" of fulfilling the spice part of the deal). (if you can comment/agree on this small adjustment, I would appreciate that - might expedite our intrateam discussion re: your proposal). Best regards, vondrack just like you i have to discuss this first with my team but i guess that this is absolutely fair and agreeable. I'ts a pleassure to do buissiness with you. I'll stay in contact and tell you as soon as i can make the deal official. You can tell your team that we will probably agree to the conditions you mentioned. Please tell me if you have their official response. Sincerly Darekill Consul of Neu Demogyptica

	15-06-2003 08:41									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I would object to the no landing clause if we were planning on anything in the next 50 turns... but seeing as we want to keep building, this is actually a great excuse if RP or GoW wants us to send military for a Bobian war. We would have to stay out because of the treaty, possibly sending gold (our only real means of contribution anyway). So I think this is very good for us...