17-06-2003 15:17									#31
	Got spare money?

Politely reminding ND of the pending deal...

quote: Darekill, Just to briefly confirm that what I PMed you right after receiving your recent proposal is now official. All we ask for is that 50 gold for the harbour rush is left out and the spice "payment" is postponed until technically feasible. And thank you for withdrawing Arne prior to having a treaty signed - we appreciate your good will a lot. Best regards, vondrack quote: just like you i have to discuss this first with my team but i guess that this is absolutely fair and agreeable. I'ts a pleassure to do buissiness with you. I'll stay in contact and tell you as soon as i can make the deal official. You can tell your team that we will probably agree to the conditions you mentioned. Please tell me if you have their official response. Sincerly Darekill Consul of Neu Demogyptica

	18-06-2003 14:30									#32
	Get a bigger avatar today!

And here is Darekill's response:

quote: quote: Darekill, Just to briefly confirm that what I PMed you right after receiving your recent proposal is now official. All we ask for is that 50 gold for the harbour rush is left out and the spice "payment" is postponed until technically feasible. And thank you for withdrawing Arne prior to having a treaty signed - we appreciate your good will a lot. Best regards, vondrack quote: just like you i have to discuss this first with my team but i guess that this is absolutely fair and agreeable. I'ts a pleassure to do buissiness with you. I'll stay in contact and tell you as soon as i can make the deal official. You can tell your team that we will probably agree to the conditions you mentioned. Please tell me if you have their official response. Sincerly Darekill Consul of Neu Demogyptica Thank you Vondrack, then it is a deal! My People agreed to your proposal. Arne is on it's way home again and we expect your offer of Theology in the next turn then. You'll get your spice as soon as it is possible. Your friend Darekill.

	10-07-2003 02:37									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Shall we contact ND with an Edu proposal soon?

We could discuss a second "get spices out of ND free" card if they have trouble paying us in cash only; they must have upgraded at least some horses to Ansars, so they may be a little short in their treasury right now.

	10-07-2003 02:48									#34
	Put an end to popups!

Contacting ND is a good idea. Do we have anyone assigned as an ambassador to them or shall I do it myself?

	10-07-2003 02:58									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think Jack was the ambassador, and I haven't seen him around in a while.

I suggest we start with a price of 225 to 250 gold, but make sure to mention the luxury option in the first PM/chat as well.

	10-07-2003 15:29									#36
	Tired of ads?

How much does actually 20 turns of spice worth, in your opinion?

	10-07-2003 19:40									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My opinion: What the market will bear. Seriously, though; from what we've heard, it seems GoW managed to set tech prices low in the early game singlehandedly! Other teams followed suit because they didn't want to lose out. (It may have been a very wise move on GoW's part, as they now seem to be commerce-poor and having a precedent for cheap tech sales is good for them.)

Viewing it from our side, the equivalent luxury money that would be needed to produce the same effect as a lux is 260 gold. (13 cities * 20 turns.) However, viewing it from their side, surplus spices do nothing for them if they aren't sold.

The only precedent here is that ND gave us more than spices for Theo: they also gave us a no-Sistine. (Plus NAP and withdrawing Arne, but the NAP balances out and Arne was more of a goodwill gesture IMO; I think they would probably have withdrawn him anyway.) Since Edu is more expensive, and we've been selling it for somewhere over 200 gold, I'd say we could request at least 50 gold in addition to the spices. Perhaps not more; we need to keep in mind that ND is the last team we're selling to (perhaps second-to-last), and may already be exploring alternate deals with GoW and/or GS.

If ND doesn't want to give up the gold immediately, we could do a 10 gold + 2 gpt deal or something similiar. Or just drop it to 2 gpt.

	12-07-2003 20:09									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

Wow, a 24 hours turn for the Arabs. This is so very-unlike ND. Let's see what comes.

	24-07-2003 19:51									#39
	Tired of ads?

Ok, quick rundown of some recent diplomacy:

-In the ISDG chat yesterday, the events on Bob came up (of course), with Togas and Master Zen arguing about the gifting of the cities to GS. MZ accused RP of trying to hand the game to GS, which Togas sort of agreed with, saying they were doing it out of spite. MZ asked why they didn't give cities to us, to which Togas poitned out that they offered, we refused. MZ essentially pleaded that if they give more cities away, to at least give them to Lego so as to keep GS in check, somewhat. Togas said that they were willing, but it was basically up to us (Lego) to change our minds. I said I would be agreeable to it, personally (playing "good-cop", trying to keep them from doign any more spiteful things), and that I would talk to the team about it.

So. of course, there is still the issue of our agreement with ND. MZ pointed out that ND's situation has changed, and they may WANT us on Bob now. Kloreep and I talked about it, and I contacted Darekill requesting a chat to discuss recent events, with the hopes that we can bring up the no-Bob clause and perhaps work ourselves out of it, once we explain the situation.

Now, I know some of you aren't thrilled by the idea of us having cities on Bob, but think about it this way: would you rather we have 1 or 2 wastefull cities, or that GS have 4 or 5 cities, with a big foothold on Bob?

Anyway, the main point of this is, Darekill said he'd be available for chatting around 19:00 GMT. Unfortunatley, I will still be at work. So, if Vondrack or Kloreep could try and be around, that'd be a good thing Basically, just explain the situation to them, get their assessment of how things are going, and see what we can work out.

	24-07-2003 20:31									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OK, I will try to be around (no problem, I think).

	25-07-2003 00:43									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If I understood it correctly, ND conquered one of the cities gifted by RP to GS, so why would they accept us receiving cities from RP?

	25-07-2003 01:24									#42
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Because, if they end up at war with GS over the situation, they probably won't want RP just handing cities over to GS on Bob. Thus, the situation has changed

	25-07-2003 01:49									#43
	Tired of ads?

My point was that ND will continue to occupy RP cities, gifted or not. It won't stop them if RP will gift them to GS or to us. I don't think it makes any difference who is receiving the cities, from ND's PoV. ND wants the cities for themselves, otherwise they wouldn't have started the war. They won't accept us taking RP cities, unless we promise to gift them later to ND, and we can't do that.

Besides they are empty anyway (when you gift them), and empty cities won't help GS too much against ND, should they fight against each other.

So my opinion is still to stay out of the city gifting business. I still can't see any profit in it.

Last edited by Tiberius on 25-07-2003 at 01:57

	29-07-2003 01:49									#44
	Put an end to popups!

I have finally been able to meet with Darekill this evening. Here goes the chatlog... I apologize if I went too far, but I felt that for this chat to be of any use, it was time to stop being overly cautious and start talking yes, yes, no, no. I basically relayed what we briefly discussed in the new thread on our general policy.

quote: Session Start: Mon Jul 28 20:45:22 2003 Session Ident: #nd_chat opening pleasantries left out [ND]Darekill: Vondrack you want to know what's going on on borconia i supose? [ND]Darekill: So the facts are we are at war with RP and are allied with GoW vondrack: right, that's how it looks from the outside, too [ND]Darekill: RP faced they can't take it up with both of us and choose to invite GS into the party. vondrack: right, that we also know vondrack: watching it on CNN every turn [ND]Darekill: Now is GoW a bit scared about facing GS in war and choose not to be overly active vondrack: umm, not a good news [ND]Darekill: which leaves us to wonder if they just want to sit there and lean back and watch while GS gets stronger and stronger. [ND]Darekill: It is obvious that we cannot face GS and RP. vondrack: understood [ND]Darekill: Aother problem is the pervert tactics that RP chooses. [ND]Darekill: it is one thing that we attacked them which we frankly admit. [ND]Darekill: We had our reasons. vondrack: sure, this is basically a very cruel game vondrack: no problem with that vondrack: little love between us and RP [ND]Darekill: But we think they exploit the game mechanics by teleporting their troops form their cities to their capitol vondrack: hm, even if I agreed (which I would) with this, it is too late to "outlaw" this trick vondrack: GS is using it, too vondrack: Voxes have used it recently, too vondrack: ugly, but effective [ND]Darekill: didnt wittnes that. did you? NeMeSiS: thats bad vondrack: we can only guess, but the guess is well backed with save/map observations vondrack: (that was re: GS) vondrack: Voxes - that was part of the plan to move them to Legos Minor vondrack: without having to build too much of a navy [ND]Darekill: now i see! [ND]Darekill: That whole Voxodus **** starts making sense now. vondrack: we have reasons to believe that GS is pulling their forces vondrack: from Northern Stormia to Eye of the Storm vondrack: quite possibly preparing for an invasion onto Bob [ND]Darekill: We have just seen troops of GS in Spain. vondrack: yes, Voxodus was a grand plan - and it has been successfully carried out, Voxes are now in their new home vondrack: hopefully becoming a valuable ally in the long run vondrack: but not immediately [ND]Darekill: the Problem is that we have to do something before GS gets to strong. vondrack: agreed [ND]Darekill: they have already a big continent for themselves. [ND]Darekill: but unlike you for example they still try to expand agressively vondrack: their landmass is not that big vondrack: they can't win from there (only) NeMeSiS: they already have cities elsewhere [ND]Darekill: they came to us with a plan to assist us in slaughtering RP for the cost of three Citys. vondrack: ????? vondrack: my Lord! [ND]Darekill: Yes it was before the war started. vondrack: ah, I see - that makes sense [ND]Darekill: We didn't like this so we did not accept. now see what happened. [ND]Darekill: they have a real easy policy. [ND]Darekill: accept what we want or face the consequences. vondrack: did they say what they wanted? vondrack: those three cities? vondrack: have they made any claims? [ND]Darekill: They told us they assist us if they get three spanish citys. [ND]Darekill: We refused. vondrack: I mean - have GS set any conditions to not intervene on behalf of RP now? [ND]Darekill: I think they plot against you too. [ND]Darekill: the next thing they asked us was an alliance against [ND]Darekill: guess who? vondrack: Lux Invincta! [ND]Darekill: not exactly [ND]Darekill: They are after everyone who is in their way. [ND]Darekill: and this means Lego too. vondrack: ummm... everybody is basically after everybody else... that is the nature of this game vondrack: it is just a matter of timing vondrack: my friend in 10AD may be my sworn enemy at 1000AD [ND]Darekill: Until now I thought you would be quite content with the little island that you call home vondrack: and that's correct vondrack: but we had a very unique starting position vondrack: not GS' case vondrack: we do not really need to expand unless someone grows too big elsewhere vondrack: or, we think so vondrack: GS on Stormia is okay with us vondrack: 3-civ Bob is okay with us vondrack: everything else is a problem [ND]Darekill: We think that GS will be a massive problem in the future. NeMeSiS: well GS will be able to expand agressivly on borconia now [ND]Darekill: what about a two civ borconia? vondrack: though, the least of a problem is a 2-civ (GoW+ND) Bob vondrack: much better than anything else vondrack: it also depends on how the borders would be drawn vondrack: between you and GoW [ND]Darekill: You know we thought this would all be a great experiment. vondrack: ? [ND]Darekill: There were Warmongers [ND]Darekill: Builders. [ND]Darekill: Foreigners. [ND]Darekill: and so on. [ND]Darekill: We tried to play the proud and honest but warlike people here. vondrack: I think I personally understand you very well vondrack: but it's not how the game turned out to be... [ND]Darekill: Now it turns out to get into and powerplay with intrigues more than can be count. vondrack: right [ND]Darekill: that is what i say. [ND]Darekill: I do not like it that way. vondrack: it's all about winning now * vondrack sighs vondrack: me neither vondrack: but then, what can we do about it? vondrack: too many people play this game to win vondrack: we did something that was not very victory-driven by saving Voxes vondrack: after failing to save Lux Invicta [ND]Darekill: We could at least try to find some one who does not agree to the win at all cost game. vondrack: do you have any plan? [ND]Darekill: I still think that some of the GoW has the idea of living in peace with us. [ND]Darekill: Up to know they treated us with respect and were reliable. vondrack: I have always felt they were true allies of yours vondrack: yes vondrack: judging from what they said to us about you vondrack: they are honest with you [ND]Darekill: So we trusted them but if they do not take some action soon we don't know if we were right. vondrack: did they explain their reasons to not attack GS? vondrack: see - we had a big chat with them vondrack: after the first RP-to-GS city transfer vondrack: trying to assess where we stood at that time vondrack: we explained that we actually stood (and had to stand) - ASIDE [ND]Darekill: Hmm.. they did not tell us about that they just told us not to take Santiago. [ND]Darekill: We could not do this if we wanted to keep our role which we still want to play. vondrack: let me explain our position a bit, ok? [ND]Darekill: Ok. go ahead. vondrack: at that moment, all we could have done was to exert diplomatic pressure on GS to stay away from Bob vondrack: but we knew that any hostile action from you or GoW against GS would trigger their invasion vondrack: the only hope for a "diplomatic" solution was to leave the two gifted cities be vondrack: once those would be conquered from GS vondrack: or one of them vondrack: GS would intervene militarily vondrack: that we knew... vondrack: so we were hoping to make it clear to GS that we did not want vondrack: them to get involved in the Bobian war any more vondrack: alas... you took Santiago and that become a moot point vondrack: not that I would consider that a bad move vondrack: but it actually prevented us from doing anything vondrack: since GS had their "reason" to intervene vondrack: now, for our stance: vondrack: 1) right now, we do not have navy, nor army to make any difference militarily on Bob vondrack: we are quite capable of defending our homeland vondrack: but ultimately unable to intervene anywhere else [ND]Darekill: We are aware of this. vondrack: we understand that this is a big problem vondrack: and we are fully aware of that we have to change that vondrack: right before coming here vondrack: I have posted on this topic vondrack: responding to the "call" of our President, ZargonX vondrack: we are switching to a much more militarily oriented economy vondrack: still, we will need at least 15-20 turns to put together a force that could help anyone against GS [ND]Darekill: I'm glad you see the things this way. [ND]Darekill: And we understand your position. vondrack: let me make one thing clear, please: vondrack: we are NOT going to assist you in dismantling the RP empire vondrack: that is your own business vondrack: but we WILL intervene and support you even militarily if things get rough for you and GoW on the GS front vondrack: for the moment, we can offer only non-military aid... and not all that much of it vondrack: perhaps the only notable item would be Astronomy vondrack: that would allow your vessels to navigate through sea tiles vondrack: making it easier to reach Stormia undetected vondrack: though, I have no idea if this would be helpful or not vondrack: we are now working on some sort of a schedule vondrack: that would put us into a more power-projecting position vondrack: putting together a navy and an expeditionary force vondrack: capable of intervening overseas vondrack: but 15-20 turns is the minimum we will need vondrack: so, our semi-official (though confidential) position is: vondrack: if you and GoW get into troubles against GS, we want to be ready to help you vondrack: as we see extensive GS presence on Bob as a long-term threat vondrack: they are playing to win, that's clear [ND]Darekill: no doubt that we all do play to win in a way but not necesairily by military means vondrack: right

	29-07-2003 01:50									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

Part II:

quote: [ND]Darekill: so I can tell you that we really like the things you told us. NeMeSiS: sounds all pretty good [ND]Darekill: ND has no interst to invade Legoland or Estonia. vondrack: right... that's our policy, too [ND]Darekill: We wanted our share of Borconia thats it. vondrack: no invasions overseas [ND]Darekill: We wanted respect and honor. vondrack: but you see... for GS, that would mean giving up their chance to win vondrack: Stormia is too small to allow for a peaceful victory vondrack: so it is understandable they want to expand vondrack: but... hell... we do not have to be happy about them expanding NeMeSiS: yes but the question is if we should do something against it NeMeSiS: or if we can [ND]Darekill: We definitely don't want them on Borconia. vondrack: hm... I guess this will soon become less of a question and more of an answer... we will HAVE to do something [ND]Darekill: That is absolutely clear now i think. vondrack: do you have any idea about the economy of GS? [ND]Darekill: My only concern is that GoW trys to sneak out of this war. [ND]Darekill: I think GS is building up a huge warmachine now vondrack: I think they are desperately waiting for assurances of support vondrack: from us, perhaps vondrack: yes, they are (GS) vondrack: repeat: do you have any idea about the economy of GS? vondrack: about its power? [ND]Darekill: I think it is quite powerful vondrack: I am not trying to GET information, just checking how much you know... [ND]Darekill: I watch Sir Ralph building up moty. [ND]Darekill: I know enogh to tell that we don't know but fear the worst. vondrack: their economy power is - rough estimate - 25-30% above ours ATM vondrack: and ours is slightly higher than yours, even when you are in your GA [ND]Darekill: Hmm. I guess that is probably correct. vondrack: the estimate is based upon the number of GS pop points and number of available tiles vondrack: the good news is that they are working almost everything they can vondrack: they cannot expand too much anymore vondrack: almost every single tile of the Southern half of Stormia is fully improved now vondrack: and worked, too [ND]Darekill: that is why GoW is so afraid. That is why we are afraid too. [ND]Darekill: but we rather fight and die then to duck and cover vondrack: vondrack: right [ND]Darekill: We have seen their map. vondrack: yeah, they sold it to everybody vondrack: at least that's what they told us [ND]Darekill: probably to show us how strong they are. vondrack: hmmm... that did work, did it not? [ND]Darekill: they want to bully us. and that is exactly why we did take Santiago. vondrack: understood [ND]Darekill: Our hope is to forge an big aliance . vondrack: what will be the goal of this alliance? [ND]Darekill: GoW , you and maybe later Vox too. [ND]Darekill: There is only one goal. [ND]Darekill: Cut GS back to size. Zayxus: goal: to keep GS on it's continent. vondrack: and after it is cut to size? [ND]Darekill: then it ends vondrack: see, this may be a problem [ND]Darekill: GoW and ND may try to share Borconia. vondrack: if you (ND) conquer all of RP [ND]Darekill: there is one thing one vision that i have! vondrack: you will become the clear candidate for the 1st place vondrack: and that's unlikely to make everyone else happy [ND]Darekill: I'm not aiming for that. vondrack: vision? [ND]Darekill: Imagin the following. [ND]Darekill: We forge that alliance now and succeed. [ND]Darekill: Legoland will have its Land. [ND]Darekill: It is pretty large. [ND]Darekill: Vox has already de facto lost it's game. Zayxus: right there is much free land, to be settled. [ND]Darekill: GS will be cut to size and sit on it's continent. [ND]Darekill: After we had put much fate in each other in that great aliance we will not battle each other anymore. vondrack: do we call the game then? [ND]Darekill: We will end this game peacefully claiming to have formed a peaceful multinational Community. [ND]Darekill: Call me a dreamer if you want. but this would be just great. vondrack: what if GS does not agree? [ND]Darekill: they probably won‘t agree. Zayxus: that is the point now vondrack: I mean - I perfectly understand your dream/plan and I like it [ND]Darekill: But how big are their chances of another invasion when they know they had to face all of us? vondrack: but we will need more than me and you to make it happen [ND]Darekill: How succesful could any invasion be after Railroads are built? vondrack: true [ND]Darekill: It's just a vision. vondrack: where does GoW stand in this dream? [ND]Darekill: I think they would like it. vondrack: I mean - what part of Bob would they get? NeMeSiS: I‘m very sorry but I have to leave now [ND]Darekill: If they had their fair share of Borconia of course. vondrack: ok, bye! Zayxus: GoW as our neighbors NeMeSiS: cu Zayxus: cu * NeMeSiS has quit IRC (Quit: ) [ND]Darekill: They call themselves Warmongers but we found thea are not so up to that like they say. vondrack: LoL Zayxus: indeed Zayxus: by the facts [ND]Darekill: actualy they talked with us about such plans. vondrack: hmmm... these grand plans used to involve getting rid of Lego, too, IIRC... [ND]Darekill: Now you might ask me why did RP fit not in this plan. vondrack: actually vondrack: I would not ask vondrack: I think I know why vondrack: we have had our own share of "experience" with RP [ND]Darekill: *g* [ND]Darekill: Well GoW had plans concerning Lego i admit that. vondrack: I know... I have no problems with that [ND]Darekill: But they were far fetched and they needed the asistance of GS which they surely do not have now. [ND]Darekill: BTW. I do think you are well prepared to stirke back any invasion. vondrack: yes, I believe we are [ND]Darekill: You could only be endangered by a very big oponent or an ailliance of many smaller oponents. vondrack: yes vondrack: well... can we focus on one point that is particularly important for Lego, please? vondrack: ...the point: the after-war division of Bob between you and GoW vondrack: we would like to know what is the plan regarding the current territory of RP [ND]Darekill: Yes i see. [ND]Darekill: Well there is a map that is accepted as fair by us and GoW but it is secret and I am not allowed to tell you about it. vondrack: alright, that's all I need to know, I believe vondrack: if both of you consider it fair, it is likely to be really fair [ND]Darekill: may it suffice that not all the ND cities will necessarily remain ND cities in the future. vondrack: yes, that is what I was thinking about... vondrack: ok vondrack: that suffices [ND]Darekill: We tried to do something to arrange with RP too but you would not believe what they thought would be a fair solution. vondrack: I... ahem.. WOULD... believe vondrack: their sense of 'fair' is from another world vondrack: I cannot remember a single good deal with them [ND]Darekill: Now your talking vondrack: actually... one... but it was a very good deal for them, too vondrack: so that does not count, I guess ) [ND]Darekill: Well we have not forgoten to gift you spices. vondrack: vondrack: few more turns to Astronomy vondrack: then it will be time [ND]Darekill: So if you could give us Astronomy we would pay for it of course. vondrack: I am fairly confident we will be able to work out some deal on Astronomy [ND]Darekill: Another thing I want to mention. vondrack: yes? [ND]Darekill: GoW is building the GL still. vondrack: it's just a prebuild, is it not? [ND]Darekill: they are likely to switch soon. vondrack: right [ND]Darekill: I fear they might go for Sistine. vondrack: do not worry about that vondrack: that's is our business [ND]Darekill: alright. [ND]Darekill: good. vondrack: now - what about a three-team chat? vondrack: you, us, and GoW? vondrack: to make things clear vondrack: to set goals etc. [ND]Darekill: wait just another turn. vondrack: ok [ND]Darekill: As soon as GoW is ingame in war with RP and GS we can have that chat. vondrack: ok, I will wait for your PM vondrack: once you think it's time, just let me know [ND]Darekill: You could pm me if you see that this happened. vondrack: ok [ND]Darekill: We trust you in this. Don't think you would lie. vondrack: ok, then [ND]Darekill: I like doing buissiness with you. vondrack: vondrack: me too vondrack: less "politics", more common sense vondrack: it's been a pleasure for me today vondrack: may I post this chatlog in our forum? vondrack: or shall I post just a summary? [ND]Darekill: I#ll give you the chatlog. vondrack: I do have it [ND]Darekill: good. vondrack: I just thought I would ask you if you are ok with me posting it in our team forum [ND]Darekill: Just don't sell it to other Nations. vondrack: vondrack: of course vondrack: very well, then [ND]Darekill: Especially I would not be pleased if RP or GS would have it vondrack: I am looking forward to more chats with you Zayxus: I enjoy it very much to chat here. vondrack: and I hope we will be able to get together easier next time Zayxus: that I hope as well vondrack: if you need to talk any time, just PM me - I am usually sitting at my computer [ND]Darekill: Yes could not be bad to build up some more trust between us. vondrack: definitely vondrack: we have built a very strong relationship between us and Voxes vondrack: and I believe we could do the same with you vondrack: we seem to be sharing the overall point of view at the game [ND]Darekill: all right then it's getting late. vondrack: yup vondrack: good night! vondrack: see you soon [ND]Darekill: good night we'll stay in contact. Zayxus: good night vondrack: bye Session Close: Mon Jul 28 22:15:26 2003

	30-07-2003 20:49									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just PMed Darekill with the following message:

quote: Hello, Darekill! With GoW publicly declaring war on GS, I believe it is time to start talking about the details of our business. I would imagine that a trilateral chat of Lego + ND + GoW would be useful now. Off the cuff, here is a couple of points we would like to discuss (NONE of them are requests or demands! many of them are just ideas we'd like to know your opinion on!). 1) Lego unit help: catapults/workers for capture 2) Lego gold help: this is something we do not have much of ATM, but if you urgently need some gold, we might put something together 3) mutual help: tech exchange (Astronomy comes into mind - will be done in a couple of turns) 4) mutual help: luxury exchange (once we discover Astronomy, we could provide you with our dyes) 5) troop transfer: we believe we should start moving our troops to Bob almost immediately, gathering them somewhere well behind the front lines, assembling a stack that will be able to strike at GS, should they advance into your/GoW core territory. With a "fleet" consisting currently of two galleys only, it will take some time, even if we plan to build a couple of caravels ASAP. 6) possibility of establishing a stronghold on Bob - just one small, coastal, no-culture city with walls/barracks meant only for recovery/upgrading of our troops. Would be abandoned or handed over to you after the war. 7) Right of Passage agreements Other ideas/topics would emerge in the chat, I imagine... Cheers, vondrack P.S.: Also, if our expeditionary forces are to land on Bob, we will need you to formally amend our treaty - ATM, we would be breaking it by landing.

	30-07-2003 20:56									#47
	Remove this text

Radek, could you send something similar to GoW? Don't forget to mention the worker exchange instead of the worker gifting, becoming possible with the stronghold.

Also remind them of the secrecy of our involvement yet! We will make it public at the right moment, so they must keep their mouths shut until then!

	30-07-2003 20:57									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Will do.

	31-07-2003 14:43									#49
	Got spare money?

Darekill's brief, but cordial response:

quote: I think we can meet tomorrow at about 20:00 MEZ (our local time). I do belive that GoW can make it at this time too. I hope that I'm not to going to far if I tell you that this is almost more that I would have demanded (or expectet) and I'm sure we will find a way to work this out.

20:00 MEZ is 6pm GMT. Not sure how many of you can be there, but we can hardly hope for a more suitable time, as ND is an all-German team.

	31-07-2003 14:52									#50
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Thats tonight?

	31-07-2003 14:53									#51
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Yes, tonight - July 31. Sorry for the confusion.

	31-07-2003 16:10									#52
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Radek, I think MEZ is CET (central european time), which is GMT+1. So 20.00 MEZ is 7 PM GMT, not 6.

	31-07-2003 16:41									#53
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Well, MEZ might be GMT+1, but Darekill expressly said "our local time", which is - due to the daylight savings time - GMT+2 ATM. It must have been just improper use of MEZ on his side... I am 100% sure his local time is the same as mine.

	31-07-2003 17:17									#54
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What? You mean I'm GMT+3 now?
What time is in London then? GMT+1?

	31-07-2003 17:28									#55
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London is on BST which is GMT+1 yeah.

	31-07-2003 17:53									#56
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Holy crap!! I always thought that London is always GMT. Isn't Greenwich near London?

Now you will tell me that Greenwich is GMT+1, too For christsake, GMT means Greenwich Mean (Meridian) Time! How can it be GMT+1 ???!!!

Edit: OK, I know, daylight saving, blah blah, but I still don't get it how can London be GMT+1.

	03-08-2003 01:56									#57
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Bit of intelligence from Darekill:

quote: Since you requestet it. I'll give it. Z 50 AD shows Zaragoza in our Hands. Shirocco is an Operation to hurt their south. 50 AD Stack is the spanish Stack that aproaches Leon. We have a lot of Troops in Leon now. we hope it will work. This was nescesairy to prevent them from moving to fast to the north.

	03-08-2003 02:05									#58
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Man that is a lot of RP units - 8 pikes, 11 med infs and 8 catapults nearly all undamaged too... in other words equivalent to nearly our entire armed forces.

Should be interesting if RP loses all of these whether they have anything left...

I am surprised they are going after Leon, I would have thought that Vigo and/or Zaragoza would be much more important.

Last edited by Sharpe on 03-08-2003 at 02:26

	03-08-2003 02:35									#59
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And that, gentlemen, is why we need to build up our military

	03-08-2003 03:05									#60
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Frankly I think that perhaps we should plan for more med infs than originally planned as that will give us more units more quickly. Though yes, the backbone of our force should be knights.