20-03-2003 09:30									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I suggest you re-read the UN charter if you have not done so before affirming the contrary.

I suggest reading the relevent UNSC resolutions on Haiti where they give thier seal of approval to the violent overthrow of the military regime and the restoration of Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

	20-03-2003 09:31									#122
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propaganda: the mannerheim line eh? the winter war is such a proud part of soviet military history.

you certainly live up to your name

	20-03-2003 09:32									#123
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quote: Don't use the terrorist thread as an excuse for your own imperialist ambitions, my fellow Russians, since that makes you people no better than the US.

What about Mexican aggression in the Chiapas region? Long live the Zapatistas!

	20-03-2003 09:32									#124
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I suggest reading the relevent UNSC resolutions on Haiti where they give thier seal of approval to the violent overthrow of the military regime and the restoration of Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

exactly. the UN has done such things in the past, i don't know why it had to think twice about it this time.

* Inverse Icarus ignores public opinion

	20-03-2003 09:35									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda I personally feel that with the US clout over the UN and the world, there really is no hope for both. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON OUR SOULS!

Ummm... ?
Haven't recent days shown that the US doesn't have that much clout over the UN?
And there have been more posters here (not that they necessarily constitute a representative sample ) opposing the US than there have been supporting it, which would tend to indicate that they don't carry as much clout over the rest of the world...

	20-03-2003 09:37									#126
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I suggest reading the relevent UNSC resolutions on Haiti where they give thier seal of approval to the violent overthrow of the military regime and the restoration of Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

Read Article 7 again. It says this will not apply if the Security Council approves it. The SC approved the Haiti overthrow but has NOT approved this one. Hence it is illegal in the whole sense of the word.

	20-03-2003 09:41									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen No offense but compared to the atrocities Russians commited during the 2 chechen wars, they pale in comparison. Don't use the terrorist thread as an excuse for your own imperialist ambitions, my fellow Russians, since that makes you people no better than the US.

I don't understand this. We gave them independence, they used it to justify terrorism on our country. They provoked us. What were we supposed to do? Sit on our hands?

BTW, the fact that there are are 2 Chechen wars should tell you something.

	20-03-2003 09:41									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Don't use the terrorist thread as an excuse for your own imperialist ambitions, my fellow Russians, since that makes you people no better than the US. What about Mexican aggression in the Chiapas region? Long live the Zapatistas!

There has not been any insurrection since 1995. Many of the mostly-indian municipalties in that state are semi-autonomous. They never asked for indepence either, just an end to injustice commited by government paramilitary groups.

Chechens are an entire different ethnic group than the ruling class of the country which oppresses them, and they want independence. The same does not apply to the Zapatistas. Plus, Marcos, the leader of the Zapatistas is NOT indian.

	20-03-2003 09:42									#129
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Ummm... ? Haven't recent days shown that the US doesn't have that much clout over the UN? And there have been more posters here (not that they necessarily constitute a representative sample ) opposing the US than there have been supporting it, which would tend to indicate that they don't carry as much clout over the rest of the world...

Come on, let me have my fun.

	20-03-2003 09:43									#130
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RUSSIANS, get your own thread.

Whow wants to take bets on whether Tariq Aziz defects or not? I am saying there is a 60% chance he will defect. He could be an important figure in post-war Iraq. If he knows what's good for him he will get the hell out of dodge when he gets the chance.

	20-03-2003 09:43									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda I don't understand this. We gave them independence, they used it to justify terrorism on our country. They provoked us. What were we supposed to do? Sit on our hands? BTW, the fact that there are are 2 Chechen wars should tell you something.

When exactly did Russia voluntary give Chechnya independence? If I don't recall it was because they lost the first war...

	20-03-2003 09:44									#132
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quote: There has not been any insurrection since 1995. Many of the mostly-indian municipalties in that state are semi-autonomous. They never asked for indepence either, just an end to injustice commited by government paramilitary groups. Chechens are an entire different ethnic group than the ruling class of the country which oppresses them, and they want independence. The same does not apply to the Zapatistas. Plus, Marcos, the leader of the Zapatistas is NOT indian.

You actually believe this Mexican propaganda? You should find some unbiased news sources...

	20-03-2003 09:45									#133
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I'm watching the tube now, and apparently there have been several developments:

1) There's been a big push in Afghanistan with over 1000 82nd Airborne troops.

2) Saddam is going on television in several minutes

3) There has been reports of artillery fire along the Kuwait border...

	20-03-2003 09:48									#134
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Ted:

Tariq Aziz hasn't been, to the best of my knowledge, accused of any crimes other than being Saddam's tool. I think that if there is some sort of reconciliation committee like in South Africa, Aziz could be an excellent resources in finding out 'where the bodies are buried' so to speak.

Also: Kudos to Fox News for picking up Sky News broadcasts.

	20-03-2003 09:48									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf propaganda: the mannerheim line eh? the winter war is such a proud part of soviet military history. you certainly live up to your name

EVIL FINNS! WHY DO YOU RESIST?

Oh well, next time, we'll make sure to do it right.

	20-03-2003 09:50									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch 1) There's been a big push in Afghanistan with over 1000 82nd Airborne troops.

Any details on this one?

	20-03-2003 09:50									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Read Article 7 again.

Then I refer you to the ex post facto approval of the NATO intervention in the Balkan conflict.

	20-03-2003 09:51									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You actually believe this Mexican propaganda? You should find some unbiased news sources...

What part should I not believe?

I'm not saying it's all good in Chiapas, it's our poorest state, there is still abuse and repression by the government, the Zapatistas however, are hardly the force they were before, most people actually regard them as a joke these days.

As for the semi-autonomous regions, they are not limited to the Zapatista territories. As I said, many municipalies are legaly governed by Indian custom and tradition. This of course was one way of the government to sooth tensions.

I think it's a load of crap, and in reality the government has not done all it should. The Zapatistas are not the only "guerrilla" in the country, all I'm arguing is that the situation here is nowhere near comparable to that in Chechnya.

Also, the FAS website (Federation of American Scientists) has Mexico listed as a "civil war" which I find truly and absolutely ridiculous.

	20-03-2003 09:54									#139
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Everyone knows about the shameful, aggressive acts of the Mexican government. Hopefully the UN will place sanctions on them for their violations of international law...

	20-03-2003 09:55									#140
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The UN *might* issue some sort of "acceptance" of the need for action after any WMDs are found...but, that same document would in any case include substantial criticism of the manner in which the US began the operation (that is to say, without prior UN approval and amid international opposition)....

	20-03-2003 09:56									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda EVIL FINNS! WHY DO YOU RESIST? Oh well, next time, we'll make sure to do it right.

You don't have to get rid of the Finns per se - just make sure you take out their internet access.

	20-03-2003 09:56									#142
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Then I refer you to the ex post facto approval of the NATO intervention in the Balkan conflict.

I am unfamiliar with that so if you could enlighten me on the details...

However, International Law is not like US law which is based on precedents. The law is written in the UN Charter and in the myriad of other documents ratified by the UN. As it stands today, the actions taken by the US are totally in breach of these laws, I'm not the only one who has said this, France and Russia have this very day. I don't honestly see how you can get around this plain and simple fact. If the US wanted to make it legal, it had to make it legal before they started it, which it hasn't since no SC resolution has as yet authorized the use of force.

	20-03-2003 09:58									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Any details on this one?

Latest News

The name is something like "Operation Valliant Struggle"


Love him or hate him, apparently Geraldo Rivera is along for the ride and will probably show up on Fox News later tonight.


On a side note, I can't wait to see if there will be a riot on Capital Hill tomorrow. That'll make my workday....

	20-03-2003 09:59									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda EVIL FINNS! WHY DO YOU RESIST? Oh well, next time, we'll make sure to do it right.

This post demonstrates the utter ruthlessness and hypocrisy of Russians.

	20-03-2003 10:01									#145
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Sweet, it looks like that idiot the Pakis caught a couple of weeks ago is giving up lots of info so the 82nd knows where to go get some of the baddies.

	20-03-2003 10:02									#146
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Lord Merciless:

I can't believe they have the guts to slam on the US and actually post stuff like that!

	20-03-2003 10:09									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch The name is something like "Operation Valliant Struggle"

I say we shoulda named it the Franco-American War. It's already over though, seen in that light.

EDIT: BTW: let's go out and kick some Iraqui Arse! Eh? Let's hear it for.... some Iraqui Arse kicking.

Get the Oil wells first, so they can't burn them, i don't care if we're fighting over liberation, I'll personally go out to defend those feilds if it'll bring gas prices down.

Free Iraq!
Kick Saddam's tail!

get me some oil.....

	20-03-2003 10:10									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Sweet, it looks like that idiot the Pakis caught a couple of weeks ago is giving up lots of info so the 82nd knows where to go get some of the baddies.

Probably under torture...

	20-03-2003 10:11									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I am unfamiliar with that so if you could enlighten me on the details...

Resolution 1199, IIRC.

	20-03-2003 10:11									#150
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Edited for adult content.