20-03-2003 10:11									#151
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*ahem*

I was talking in reference to the Afghanistan raids...

	20-03-2003 10:12									#152
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quote: Probably under torture...

Just like the proud Zapatista fighters...

	20-03-2003 10:14									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Edited for adult content.

	20-03-2003 10:15									#154
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DD

	20-03-2003 10:16									#155
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God Bless America!

	20-03-2003 10:17									#156
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very patriotic.

	20-03-2003 10:22									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Notice how Serb is careful to use the term "independent countries"? We wouldn't want our trolls being used to criticize Russian atrocities in Chechnya, now, would we?

I'm glad you noticed this.
Aside American war vs. Iraq, Russian war in Chechnya do not violates UN charter, because:
1) It was war against bunch of terrorists, a rightfull atempt to restore order on part of Russian territory, not war against independednt country- the member of international community.
2) It was defensive operation against armed terrorist groups that invaded Dagestan- Russian territory (they started this war not we are), NOT war of pure agression (America started this war, USA is country agressor, not Iraq).
Aside you we were fully justified in our war, but this thread is not about this.

	20-03-2003 10:23									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Probably under torture... Just like the proud Zapatista fighters...

I wouldn't doubt it either. We are actually in the process of unconvering our own history's dirty secrets, especially our own "dirty war" against left-wing organizations in the 1960s and 1970s, where there were hundreds, perhaps thousands of people illegaly arrested and tortured.

Still, this in no excuse for the US to do it there is no excuse for anyone to do it.

	20-03-2003 10:24									#159
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Double.

USA!

	20-03-2003 10:24									#160
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You're assuming the US IS doing it dumbass.

	20-03-2003 10:25									#161
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Well, um, excuse me Master Zen but Saddam is in breach of his agreement at the end of Gulf War 1. He was supposed to remove his WoMD and he still hasn't 12 years later.

Does anybody remember what the UN said about Rwanda?

And, a lot of the innocent lives lost in the war anyway will be because of Saddam putting bunkers near the schools.

I'm opposed to the war though.

	20-03-2003 10:25									#162
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc

Why are you posting anti-American insulting pics DD ?

	20-03-2003 10:25									#163
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First photos of Baghdad strike.

Attachment: banhim.gif
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	20-03-2003 10:26									#164
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Terrorists or freedom fighters... depends on who's side you're on

But "technically", Serb is right, it is not in violation of the US Charter, it is technically still a Russian domestic issue, kinda like if Montana declared its independence from the US.

But still, that is no excuse for the atrocities committed by Russian troops.

	20-03-2003 10:27									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Terrorists or freedom fighters... depends on who's side you're on But "technically", Serb is right, it is not in violation of the US Charter, it is technically still a Russian domestic issue, kinda like if Montana declared its independence from the US. But still, that is no excuse for the atrocities committed by Russian troops.

Oh aren't you just the bastion of all that is good and just in the world.

	20-03-2003 10:27									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse First photos of Baghdad strike.

HAHAHAHAHA

	20-03-2003 10:30									#167
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quote: this war is illegal

No war is 'illegal' unless the people who start them lose.

	20-03-2003 10:30									#168
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Well, um, excuse me Master Zen but Saddam is in breach of his agreement at the end of Gulf War 1. He was supposed to remove his WoMD and he still hasn't 12 years later.

Resoultion 1441 states that Iraq will face "serious consequences" if it does not comply". That is diplomatic lingo for not yet supporting military force in full. According to protocol, such a statement invites a further resolution which does in fact authorice "all means necessary" (diplomatic lingo for war) which is like what the US/UK/Spain draft resolution which was never voted on called for.

	20-03-2003 10:30									#169
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Richard Symonds strikes.

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	20-03-2003 10:31									#170
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When you say it's a War of Agression, you're only making an educated guess. You aren't in Bush's mind.

Just for the sake of discussion, more people should argue for the war. I'm opposed to war, but I lose in arguments about it a lot so I want to hear arguments and facts backing them up from both sides.

Master Zen may be right, but as an outisder of the argument he isn't explaining and backing up what he is saying enough. I'm trying to pick up from his arguments so I can use them, but I need just a little more backing it up. Good job though.

	20-03-2003 10:31									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Resoultion 1441 states that Iraq will face "serious consequences" if it does not comply". That is diplomatic lingo for not yet supporting military force in full. According to protocol, such a statement invites a further resolution which does in fact authorice "all means necessary" (diplomatic lingo for war) which is like what the US/UK/Spain draft resolution which was never voted on called for.

Give it up. The cat is out of the bag.

This debate is so 2002.

	20-03-2003 10:32									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Terrorists or freedom fighters... depends on who's side you're on

No. A terrorist is a piece of excrement who skulks around in civies trying to kill civilians, rather than confronting uniformed forces who could defend themselves. They are the worst form of vile creatures.

Do not insult those who confront soldiers in rebellions by associating them with such vermin.

	20-03-2003 10:32									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Oh aren't you just the bastion of all that is good and just in the world.

I just don't follow the propaganda any country, even my own, spits out at me. If that's too hard to understand, I pity the poor sheep who follow Bush and his madman allies to the abyss...

	20-03-2003 10:34									#174
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod You aren't in Bush's mind.

That's one thing to be grateful for. I couldn't stand the silence.

	20-03-2003 10:34									#175
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Everyone is affected by propaganda. Nobody is above it.

	20-03-2003 10:34									#176
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How thick do I have to lay it on before the one-trick ponies realize that I'm mocking them? Anyway...

Russia and Mexico are the leaders in worldwide genocide! The people of the world must rise up to fight their evil empires! We can't let these horrible nations continue their unchecked aggression against brave freedom fighters!

	20-03-2003 10:35									#177
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither No. A terrorist is a piece of excrement who skulks around in civies trying to kill civilians, rather than confronting uniformed forces who could defend themselves. They are the worst form of vile creatures. Do not insult those who confront soldiers in rebellions by associating them with such vermin.

Is there a difference between an atrocity commited by a uniformed soldier and a terrorist? Why should they follow the other's rules? None of these countries can confront the US in a conventional war so why not go the other route? What makes an F-15 strike which knocks out a dam and starves a hundred people any more legal than a terrorist strike? Both are repudiable acts.

	20-03-2003 10:36									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten How thick do I have to lay it on before the one-trick ponies realize that I'm mocking them? Anyway... Russia and Mexico are the leaders in worldwide genocide! The people of the world must rise up to fight their evil empires! We can't let these horrible nations continue their unchecked aggression against brave freedom fighters!

BTW, is it just me, or did Saddam look like a fake double in his latest speech?

	20-03-2003 10:37									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Is there a difference between an atrocity commited by a uniformed soldier and a terrorist? Why should they follow the other's rules? None of these countries can confront the US in a conventional war so why not go the other route? What makes an F-15 strike which knocks out a damn and starves a hundred people any more legal than a terrorist strike? Both are repudiable acts.

TERRORISTS *TARGET* INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

DUH!

	20-03-2003 10:38									#180
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Saddam just gave a speech on Iraqi television.

It was standard stuff, no particulars, just lots of hot air about the U.S., Zionists and lots of "Allahu Akbar!" and "Long Live the People of Palestine!".

Interestingly enough, some reporters have commented that as they watched, they saw some errors in the broadcast indicating that it was probably taped.