20-03-2003 11:02									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Propaganda: There is in the other games forum. Many of us are playing on the White Giant world.

Yeah, thanks a lot.

Anyway, back on-topic the lot of you.

	20-03-2003 11:05									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Chile is a well known agressor. Why should I believe the lies of a nation that still occupies land stolen from Peru and Bolivia during the War of the Pacific? It's quite obvious that Chile wants to break down the international system of laws so that they can continue their aggressive wars of conquest!

yeah the Bolivians call us "the Southamerican Israel"
But what can I say.. we have never lie about it. We fought the Pacific War after that both countries declare war on us and we proudly won. As you keep Puerto Rico, the former Mexican land and some other countries in the history of mankind we did the same.

Anyway is hard to compare. I'm not sure but.. I believe.. that... I'm really not sure but in 1879 I believe that the UN didn't exist.

	20-03-2003 11:07									#213
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Question: was that THING on Iraqi TV saddam hussein or a really poor impersonator? Because if it is, saddam has really bad glasses and needs a liposuction... he's let himself go!

	20-03-2003 11:08									#214
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Your pessimism is noted. Good thing it is not certain. The UN has survived many military actions not sanctioned by the UN in the past. Almost all of them, in fact. Nothing indicates that the same is not true now.

But never like this. Never has the Security Council seen itself so totally useless and voiceless against the actions of one country. The US simply leapfrogged them with absolutely no regard to multilateralism. Diplomats in NY are probably drowning their anger with alcohol at this time.

IMO this is the gravest thing to ever happen to the UN.

	20-03-2003 11:08									#215
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Question: was that THING on Iraqi TV saddam hussein or a really poor impersonator? Because if it is, saddam has really bad glasses and needs a liposuction... he's let himself go!

And really old. He was not Saddam... maybe his grand father

	20-03-2003 11:08									#216
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Your pessimism is noted. Good thing it is not certain. The UN has survived many military actions not sanctioned by the UN in the past. Almost all of them, in fact. Nothing indicates that the same is not true now.

I guess some things do, indicate.
First such thing was Yugoslavia. After collapse of SU, world has changed. Some changes happaned in American foreign policy. Now, Yanks consider they can do everything they want and no one will stop them.
Great aproach.

	20-03-2003 11:09									#217
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quote: yeah the Bolivians call us "the Southamerican Israel"

Wars of aggression aren't funny...

	20-03-2003 11:10									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: yeah the Bolivians call us "the Southamerican Israel" Wars of aggression aren't funny...

First time that we agree.. and I believe that the iraqi people think the same right now.

anyway the Pacific War was a "war of aggression" but from the peruvian and bolivian point of view. We were defending ourselves. And the region that we took was called "despoblado de Atacama" something like "unhabited zone of Atacama".

	20-03-2003 11:10									#219
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laugh at the scoundrel:

www.dancingbush.com

	20-03-2003 11:10									#220
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cry me a river

	20-03-2003 11:11									#221
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Master Zen. Hmmm. Well, I think you missed the Cold War. Many things have happened at the UN. It is not the crucible of power that some seem to assume it is.

It is a forum for nations. That is all. Yes, it is nice when everyone can agree and all move in the same direction, but that hasn't happened very often. Not even when millions were hacking each other to death and the UN dithered.

	20-03-2003 11:12									#222
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Chilean:

quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Question: was that THING on Iraqi TV saddam hussein or a really poor impersonator? Because if it is, saddam has really bad glasses and needs a liposuction... he's let himself go!

I just hope his (great-grand?)sons don't survive for long...those guys are just about as wacko as Saddam is/was....and a reason to continue all these bloody military operations.

	20-03-2003 11:12									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen laugh at the scoundrel: www.dancingbush.com

	20-03-2003 11:12									#224
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quote: First time that we agree.. and I believe that the iraqi people think the same right now.

War might not have been necessary if Chile hadn't conspired with France to make the UN irrelevant...

	20-03-2003 11:13									#225
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I bet it was nice back in the 1950's when the UN was actually capable of action save humanitarian missions...

	20-03-2003 11:16									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: First time that we agree.. and I believe that the iraqi people think the same right now. War might not have been necessary if Chile hadn't conspired with France to make the UN irrelevant...

Hmm... who attacked in flagrant violation of international law? Are those French Mirage fighters I see over Baghdad? Is that the Charles de Gaulle in the Gulf? Nooooooooooooooo

Just cuz the UN doesn't do what the US wants it to is no reason to make it irrelevant, in any case it was the US/UK who did. Diplomacy is about compromise, and you won't always get what you want. Hard to swallow for a superpower.

And though there were many crisis during the Cold War, never did it show the ineptitude of the UN and SC like this one.

	20-03-2003 11:18									#227
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Well, as I trist to bed, here's hoping they pegged Saddam in the opening shot.

	20-03-2003 11:18									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: First time that we agree.. and I believe that the iraqi people think the same right now. War might not have been necessary if Chile hadn't conspired with France to make the UN irrelevant...

OHHHHHHHH COME ON!!! are you Jerry Seinfeld?? At this point this is funny. What conspiracy? Our contries search the peace... on the other side the "Azores Summit" can be seen as a conspiracy for war.
Why is so hard to believe that a resolution away from the point of view of America and France could be possible.

The Chilean plan said, we gave the inspectors a few more weeks and then if Irak doesn't destroyed the missiles the UN may accept a militar intervention. The British like that proposal, the French too. Why the Americans rejected it without even considering it as a peaceful way to solve the Iraki conflict?

	20-03-2003 11:18									#229
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda I bet it was nice back in the 1950's when the UN was actually capable of action save humanitarian missions...

It wasn't. If you are referring to the Korean War, it was only because the USSR was boycotting the UN because of the chinese civil war (the fact that Taiwan had a seat on the SC and not the reds).

Had the USSR not been boycotting it, it would have vetoed any action in Korea (that would still not have prevented the US from acting, mind you, just that it wouldn't have been done under the UN banner)

	20-03-2003 11:20									#230
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Well, as I trist to bed, here's hoping they pegged Saddam in the opening shot.

you'd have to change your avatar...

	20-03-2003 11:20									#231
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quote: And though there were many crisis during the Cold War, never did it show the ineptitude of the UN and SC like this one.

*cough*Suez Crisis

	20-03-2003 11:20									#232
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Because there is no balance of powers anymore. America feels like it's invincible and can do everything it wants.
Great, let's hope we'll survive the bloodbath which such behavior may cause.

Last edited by Serb on 20-03-2003 at 11:34

	20-03-2003 11:21									#233
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quote: Hmm... who attacked in flagrant violation of international law?

No one. American actions are completely legal under 1441 and other UNSC resolutions.

quote: Are those French Mirage fighters I see over Baghdad?

There would be if the Iraqis could get them off the ground...

At any rate, I don't need a lecture on international law from someone whose own country is brutally repressing the Zapatistas as we speak. Why don't you fix your own country first?

Free Chiapas! Free Tarapaca and Antofagasta! Free Chechnya! Free Iraq!

	20-03-2003 11:22									#234
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quote: Because there is no balance of powers anymore. America feels like they are invincible and can do everything it wants. let's hope we'll survive the bloodbath which such behavior might cause

Great, we can do it up Old Europe style and then we can have massive destruction on a grand scale! That Russian-German Non Agression Pact counterweight worked out pretty good.

Talk about bloodbaths.

	20-03-2003 11:23									#235
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quote: OHHHHHHHH COME ON!!! are you Jerry Seinfeld?? At this point this is funny. What conspiracy? Our contries search the peace... on the other side the "Azores Summit" can be seen as a conspiracy for war.

I suppose you believe that Chile didn't secretly instigate the Falklands War either?

Open your eyes! Chile is trying its best to weaken international law so that it can colonize South America! We can't let the Chilean imperialists get away with this!

	20-03-2003 11:23									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Free Tarapaca and Antofagasta!

yeah... the Antofagastians are hopping that the bolivians came here and free them..

	20-03-2003 11:27									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And though there were many crisis during the Cold War, never did it show the ineptitude of the UN and SC like this one. *cough*Suez Crisis

The USSR could have stopped it but if it had, it would have blown its own excuse for invading Hungary.

Back then the UN was juggling with 2 powers, now only one. Multilateralism has MUCH more to lose today than it did back then, that is why these events are oh so more terrible for the future of world security. There's more to lose with a useless UN today than in 1956 when there was a balance of power.

So no, there has been no greater crisis to the UN than this.

	20-03-2003 11:28									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Great, we can do it up Old Europe style and then we can have massive destruction on a grand scale! That Russian-German Non Agression Pact counterweight worked out pretty good. Talk about bloodbaths.

What did you want us to do? Go on the offensive against Hitler? We weren't even close to ready to match their military caliber.

BTW, Funny thing, Stalin warned European leaders in '36 that Hitler should be contained right then, not later. It's too bad no one listened to him.

Please don't blame this on Stalin or the Soviet Union.

	20-03-2003 11:29									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten [I suppose you believe that Chile didn't secretly instigate the Falklands War either?

of course we help Great Britain in the Falklands War... in those days Argentina was our biggest enemy. Is like the Soviets with the US.. now you keep good relations with the Russians as we do with the Argentinians. It was our own "Cold War".

quote: We can't let the Chilean imperialists get away with this!

I can assure you that we don't want anymore Southamerican land... we have enought with our own. Besides if we get more our thin healthy shape country could get fat
But is nice to read "Chilean imperialist" from an American... maybe in the future we follow your path

	20-03-2003 11:32									#240
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Drake Tungsten and Chilean President: