27-03-2003 09:18									#211
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Oh I forgot that in your world view, the US can do no wrong.

That's also nonsense, but whatever...

quote: So you're not attacking the men and women who serve in the Forces, but you are attacking the Forces bureaucracy, which by definition are the men and women who serve in the Forces.

If the DND Bureaucracy demanded more funding, and were perhaps more able than they appear in interviews and public actions (like the Sea King report fiasco), then perhaps I'd place the blame solely on the federal government.

Both the DND Bureaucracy and the Federal Government both need to seriously shape up.

I'm friends with several people in the Canadian military, and they're fine people, but from everything I've heard from them (both logistically with the DND and federally with funding), there's a LOT to be desired.

quote: That's the problem with Canadian society. Too many greedy people who demand the government give them everything

Socialists.
I agree, major problem.

quote: But no, life for you is just about money.

Life for me is about doing what I want to do with it. Unlike you, I don't have a blind patriotism to a federal government which has done nothing but aggravate me. I won't join the Canadian forces, I'd be more likely to join the US forces, but I'm even more likely to never even consider joining either short of being invaded by someone like Quebec.

quote: Quote frankly, the Forces are better off without your type.

Oh, without a doubt. I think too much to be in the forces.

	27-03-2003 09:20									#212
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Asher I really don't care if I'm taking seriously by people. My opinions won't change any Canadian's mind, that's part of the problem, you see.

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe it's your problem?

quote: Canada is an elected dictatorship and the tyranny of the majority is simply an accepted thing among Canadians. I find it sad, Canadians find it normal. Maybe they just don't know any better.

Oh please!

	27-03-2003 09:20									#213
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

* Asher trips Tingkai's high horse.

	27-03-2003 09:22									#214
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Willem Oh please!

I agree! It's absolutely disgusting.

Chretien and his party have absolute, uncontested control over this country. That's an elected dictatorship.

Not only this, but the Canadian people refuse to reform the system to add checks and balances!

This makes it astoundingly clear to me that Canadians have no problem with it being soley tyranny of the majority. (Majority is defined, by the way, as the 40% of Canadians that actually voted the Liberals into power...)

	27-03-2003 09:24									#215
	Suffering from ads?

An example of why the US system is better: Bush wanted to do a $715B tax cut, the Senate disagreed, and actually had power to cut that thing in half.

If this were in Canada, no one would be able to question or second-guess the PM passing that tax cut.

	27-03-2003 09:28									#216
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You don't need a huge armed forces for that. UN peacekeepers are just lightly armed, I can't recall them having tanks, attack helicopters, and all those toys. It's not like they are expected to face an opposing army, they are just there to keep the rioters at bay. Hey, if Bangladesh can supply people to peacekeeping missions, I am sure Canada can too.

We have lots of people on peacekeeping missions, all over the world. The problem is that there are now so many areas that need help that our forces are stretched very thin. This will be especially so when this war is over, and the reconstrucion of Iraq begins. We just don't have the people to deal with all these trouble spots, we need more.

quote: If there is no need for said protection, why have it? It's much better to put the money in education and healthcare.

Many Canadians take pride in the fact that we have peacekeepers all over the world. We're not really concerned about a traditional military per se, but we would like to able to send troops to troubled areas and do our part for the UN. And we're starting to have a hard time meeting the commitments we feel we should be.

	27-03-2003 09:31									#217
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Is brain drain that different in Canada as in Europe ? Every brain-drained person I knew (beginning with my brother) came back home a few years after. Is that different for brain-drained Canadians ?

No, but the people who complain about it, and use it as an excuse to prove we're falling behind, never take that into account.

	27-03-2003 09:34									#218
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Asher If the DND Bureaucracy demanded more funding, and were perhaps more able than they appear in interviews and public actions (like the Sea King report fiasco), then perhaps I'd place the blame solely on the federal government.

DND continually demands more funding, but the current government was more interested in a balance budget and the PR gained from joining lots of peacekeeping missions. End result, the Forces get screwed.

The Forces do not control the pursestrings. It is that simple.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Both the DND Bureaucracy and the Federal Government both need to seriously shape up. I'm friends with several people in the Canadian military, and they're fine people, but from everything I've heard from them (both logistically with the DND and federally with funding), there's a LOT to be desired.

You don't know what you are talking about.

After you some real work experience, you will learn that there is bureaucracy in every organisation. The amount of bureaucracy in the Forces is pretty much par for the course. It has no effect on the Forces ability to buy new equipment.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Life for me is about doing what I want to do with it.

Asher, you don't need to tell us that you're selfish, that you only care about yourself. Everyone knows that already.

quote: Originally posted by Asher I won't join the Canadian forces

News flash, the Forces don't want your type. Even if we were incredibly desparate, and you somehow got accepted, you wouldn't last a week. You haven't got what it takes: committment, dedication, a willingness to help others.

quote: Originally posted by Asher I think too much to be in the forces.

Another example of how you don't know anything about life in the Forces.

	27-03-2003 09:35									#219
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Asher An example of why the US system is better: Bush wanted to do a $715B tax cut, the Senate disagreed, and actually had power to cut that thing in half. If this were in Canada, no one would be able to question or second-guess the PM passing that tax cut.

If you want an example of how it's worse, look at how every controversial bill passed in the US is aided along through bribery.

Bills there are awful conglomerations of a dozen different issues where swing representatives use their position to tack on billions in waste.

It's kleptocracy of the highest order.

	27-03-2003 09:37									#220
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Correct. But with a government entirely decided there, you then are led to total disregard for some large issues in the other regions. That can have devastating effects, and if not changed will most likely lead to the eventual failure of the country to remain whole. I don't wish it, but I can see it.

That's where a reformed Senate would help.

	27-03-2003 09:40									#221
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Asher A sovereign nation should have a military capable of defending its borders. Simple as that.

Right, we're going to defend our borders against the US. It's futile to even consider it.

	27-03-2003 09:40									#222
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asher * Asher trips Tingkai's high horse.

You really do live in a dream world.



I'd love to stick around for some more laughs, but I got to get to work.

	27-03-2003 09:41									#223
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The Forces do not control the pursestrings. It is that simple.

No sh*t, but if they make it more clear (like not EDITING their reports after to lessen demands for new equipment), they'd get more funding, faster.

quote: After you some real work experience, you will learn that there is bureaucracy in every organisation.

No way! OH MY GOD! My life is over.
Why is it that virtually every argument you put forth is either irrelevant or a strawman?

quote: Asher, you don't need to tell us that you're selfish, that you only care about yourself. Everyone knows that already.

You make many large jumps to conclusions...
I don't care about only myself. I care about my family and friends, also. I care about the people serving in the military, I care about giving them the adequate funding they need to do their job.

I do NOT care for Chretien, I will NOT risk my life for his sorry ass, and I will NOT risk my life for a country that has pissed me off more than it has made me proud. You call that selfish, I call it reasonable.

Now, if Alberta was recruiting forces to defend it, I'd seriously consider joining. Canada? No.

quote: News flash, the Forces don't want your type.

The recruiters I spoke to gave a decidedly different impression...

quote: You haven't got what it takes: committment, dedication, a willingness to help others.

YOU don't know what you're talking about. You take my distaste for Canada's federal government and extrapolate it into not caring about anything, not being able to dedicate myself, and not being able to help others.

You know what? F*ck you. You're exactly the reason why I won't risk my life for Canada. Canada doesn't respect me, Canadians don't respect me or people from my province in general, and I sure as hell won't put my ass on the line so you can sit on your high horse and shout down at people and judge them based on their opinion of your federal government.

Piss off.

	27-03-2003 09:44									#224
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 If Stockwell were to cut science education funding for more religous education, this would be one instance we should be concerned about his creationist beliefs.

But since he does have such beliefs, we can't be sure if he would do just that. He was just a bit to fanatical in his belief for most Canadians to trust him and take him seriously.

	27-03-2003 09:46									#225
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Asher You need more than Canada has. Honestly, you do. It's a simple logistics problem that's widely known in Canada.

There are two ways to solve this problem. The first one is to improve logistics. The seond one, to reduce the men fielded. If you consider the fact that the US has field 1 (one) soldier so far for UN peacekeeping missions, you don't need to feel embarassed.

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's not only a question of armament, UR, why do you assume it is? It's a simple problem of not having enough soldiers in the first place, and then having antiquated equipment for them to use, if there's much at all.

Equipment is usually what most people complain about.

quote: Originally posted by Asher BTW, haven't you seen those white UN tanks?

I have seen APCs but not tanks.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Because there's no way to guarantee you won't need it. Really, there's not. That's the problem.

It all boils down to an assessment of the global situation. You ask two questions: why and how.

Given the size of Canada, not a lot of countries can conquer it. Invade, sure, but conquer, no. The US doesn't have a big enough army. The PRC has a big enough army, but will not be able to tackle the logistics problem now or in the near future.

	27-03-2003 09:48									#226
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger There are two ways to solve this problem. The first one is to improve logistics.

We can't create soldiers out of thin air. We need more funding for that, you know...

quote: The seond one, to reduce the men fielded.

So Canada should continually reduce our peacekeeping forces? I'm ideologically opposed to that.

quote: Given the size of Canada, not a lot of countries can conquer it. Invade, sure, but conquer, no.

That argument doesn't really cut it. The vast majority of Canada's population is concentrated in certain areas.

There's certain areas in particular that hold more oil than all of Saudi Arabia, and have only about half a dozen F-18s defending it...

	27-03-2003 09:48									#227
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Asher You know what? F*ck you. You're exactly the reason why I won't risk my life for Canada. Canada doesn't respect me, Canadians don't respect me or people from my province in general, and I sure as hell won't put my ass on the line so you can sit on your high horse and shout down at people and judge them based on their opinion of your federal government.

Well, what makes you think that the US will respect you?

	27-03-2003 09:49									#228
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Well, what makes you think that the US will respect you?

They already have.

	27-03-2003 09:51									#229
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Why do you think our birthrate is so low? That's the real brain-drain. That is why we are having trouble finding enough immigrants to fill these positions.

But that's not a uniquely Canadian problem, all the industrial nations are facing it.

	27-03-2003 09:58									#230
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Except the US.

	27-03-2003 09:59									#231
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

And I don't see it as a "problem" at all.

But I do think that government should do more to encourage procreation in the form of tax credit and direct subsidies.

	27-03-2003 10:00									#232
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Frogger: I hate to kill a thread, but I think it's Tax-funded abortion on demand.

Obiwan, take a look at other countries before you make such a blanket judgement. Shrinking populations are occuring every where, not just in Canada. It's one of the side effects of an industrialized country. There's a lot of people who feel that they have better things to do with their time and money than have children, or they may decide to have only one. Availabilty of abortions has very little to do with it.

	27-03-2003 10:06									#233
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Frogger obi: Doesn't answer the question. Even if you added that in we'd be far short of the US birth rate. And IIRC the abortion rate in the US is higher than here. Look at the marriage rate... People in Canada aren't interested in getting married and having children as young as those in the States.

You also have to look at who's having the babies in the US. There's a reason why Spanish is becoming a predominant language in parts of the US. Same with other immigrant groups. If it wasn't for immigration in both countries, the populations would be shrinking on both sides of the border.

	27-03-2003 10:13									#234
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

IIRC the US actually reproduces its own population.

But if you want to get into ethnic comparisons, then yes, IIRC, both whites and blacks in the US fall a bit short of breakeven while hispanics go beyond.

(This is IIRC. I saw the figures recently, but cannot say where)

	27-03-2003 10:14									#235
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Frogger And I don't see it as a "problem" at all. But I do think that government should do more to encourage procreation in the form of tax credit and direct subsidies.

:d:

Jon Miller

	27-03-2003 10:16									#236
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My reasoning actually isn't to encourage people to have more babies...but to remove some of the financial burden having children places on people.

It's more a social justice than social engineering issue in my mind.

	27-03-2003 10:18									#237
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Asher An example of why the US system is better: Bush wanted to do a $715B tax cut, the Senate disagreed, and actually had power to cut that thing in half. If this were in Canada, no one would be able to question or second-guess the PM passing that tax cut.

Well on that we agree, our system needs more checks and balances. I would like to see a reformed Senate, and removing the Queen as our head of state and replaced by someone who has been elected. I do think we could learn a few lessons from the Americans in that regard. Majority governments can do pretty much anything they want once they're in power.

	27-03-2003 10:27									#238
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Asher The recruiters I spoke to gave a decidedly different impression...

Obviously they don't know you very well.

quote: You know what? F*ck you. You're exactly the reason why I won't risk my life for Canada. Canada doesn't respect me, Canadians don't respect me or people from my province in general, and I sure as hell won't put my ass on the line so you can sit on your high horse and shout down at people and judge them based on their opinion of your federal government.

If people from Alberta would stop shooting their mouth off all the time, maybe the rest of us would take you more seriously. Take this letter by Klein to the US ambassador. What business is it of his to stick his nose into it.? It's clearly not in any province's jurisdiction. How can we have respect for someone who's constantly trying to undermine what the majority of Canadians believe in?

	27-03-2003 10:27									#239
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Good points all round.

The abortion rate in the US is lower than Canada

http://www.webhart.net/vandee/abortstat.shtml
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764203.html

32.2 for every 100 live births in Canada
30.2 for every 100 live birth in the US.

Our birthrate stands at 1.4
While the US is around 2.1

quote: But that's not a uniquely Canadian problem, all the industrial nations are facing it.

And all the industrialised countries allow abortion on demand.

So the difference in abortion rates do not account for all of the birthrate difference between Canada and the US.
So clearly, abortions are not the whole story.

But they do provide a brain-drain of 100,000 people a year whom we would otherwise have as Canadians.

I agree that industrialisation will drop the birth rates, but abortion on demand is also lowering the birthrates.

	27-03-2003 10:30									#240
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Asher There's certain areas in particular that hold more oil than all of Saudi Arabia, and have only about half a dozen F-18s defending it...

From who?