27-03-2003 08:30									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Actually, YES.

DOn't wave your flag.
I know Cretin is quite stupid, but there are major players in the worldwide stupidity contest. And your neighbour's president happens to be the favourite candidate, my prez being the challenger
Cretin is small fish when compared with the stupidity of Bush.

	27-03-2003 08:30									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It is not "screwed". (snipped offtopic crap)

Thanks for your input, totally irrelevant.

Canada, politically, is screwed.

quote: That is spectacular success and would be trumpeted to the heavens if it happened in any other country. In the few years I've lived here I've been impressed and I've become attached to it.

Equally relevant, is that Calgary has consistently been rated as the cleanest city, is one of a select few major cities in North America to be designated as a "safe city" by the WHO, and we've also been named "World’s Top Intelligent Community of 2002".

Obviously, Calgary's politics are responsible for this.

	27-03-2003 08:31									#153
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Optimally, there would be a Commons with a semblence of proportional representation based on pop, and an upper house based along some kind of regional lines.

That's a totally reasonable suggestion. I believe this is the first time I've ever agreed with anything you said.

	27-03-2003 08:31									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor DOn't wave your flag. I know Cretin is quite stupid, but there are major players in the worldwide stupidity contest. And your neighbour's president happens to be the favourite candidate, my prez being the challenger Cretin is small fish when compared with the stupidity of Bush.

Bush is actually quite a bit smarter than Chretien. The difference is Bush is a lot more extreme than Chretien, and people who don't know any better confuse it with stupidity.

They're both rather dumb, Bush is still brighter than Chretien.

	27-03-2003 08:31									#155
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 As for Yogic Flyers:

Sorry obi.. but for a LOT of us, hardline creationism is about as credible as levitating magicians.

	27-03-2003 08:32									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Out of curiosity, how many votes did the Liberals get in AB and BC compared to the 'Alliance', and how many seats did they get? The system cuts both ways.

Yup, it does. Unfortunately, the inequalities that count are in Ontario and Quebec. That is where the archaic system decides 19 out of 20 governments.

	27-03-2003 08:33									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The Forces are not an embarrasing.

It depends what you want to see.

To me, seeing them having to wait 6 months to get tan-colored Uniforms (forcing them to make their own uniforms for Afghanistan), buying their own radios at Future Shop since they're far better than the crap the forces gives them, seeing the copters crash regularly when they should have been replaced ages ago, seeing the very-pathetic-looking "Canadian Forces" booth at all career fairs and all over campus every month practically begging people to join them for a piddly salary -- yes, I think they're embarrassing.

	27-03-2003 08:36									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The problem, you see, is Canada is screwed. Not only is the system flawed, but the people have peculiar and unusual attitudes and there are no competent leaders, at all. This is what happens when all your smart people move south.

You sound like Stockwell when he made that speech shortly after visiting some high tech firm near Ottawa that had several Americans working there. The brain drain isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, and works both ways.

	27-03-2003 08:36									#159
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STYOM:
Creationists don't spend all day trying to levitate.

My point was how does one's belief in creationism going to affect the job that they do as PM?

I don't agree with Stockwell Day, I find his creationism somewhat embarrasing as well.

But embarrassment is not a quality to dismiss someone as a PM.

Look at Chretien.

	27-03-2003 08:36									#160
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Based on the articles posted by Asher alone — and nothing else that's been added to this thread since then — I just wish *all* of our so-called political and academic leaders (regardless of nationality) would just shut up and concentrate on their jobs, rather than exchanging barbs.

Gatekeeper

	27-03-2003 08:36									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Thanks for your input, totally irrelevant. Canada, politically, is screwed.

You know, if you are just going to troll then you won't be taken seriously. The reason that Canada does well is due to the kind of policies Canadian governments have upheld. I don't know what your definition of bad government is, but if a government that gets such good results is a "bad" government, then I say that the world needs more "bad" government.

Canada isn't screwed politically; it's the political right in Canada that is screwed because they can't get their act together.

And when have I ever criticised Klein's performance in Alberta? Never. I think he does a good job or he wouldn't have been around for so long. I think his separatist talk is silly but he's a competent premier, unlike Harris who allowed Ontarians to be poisoned.

	27-03-2003 08:36									#162
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Yup, it does. Unfortunately, the inequalities that count are in Ontario and Quebec. That is where the archaic system decides 19 out of 20 governments.

And rightly so, considering that Ontario and Quebec account for about 2/3 of the country's population.

	27-03-2003 08:37									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Willem You sound like Stockwell when he made that speech shortly after visiting some high tech firm near Ottawa that had several Americans working there. The brain drain isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, and works both ways.

Who cares? There seems to be an endless supple of brainy Asian people who would love to come to Canada.

	27-03-2003 08:39									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Willem You sound like Stockwell when he made that speech shortly after visiting some high tech firm near Ottawa that had several Americans working there. The brain drain isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, and works both ways.

That's right, it's all a lie.

Keep believing that. Hey, can you do me a favor?

Try to rationalize it by taking into account all of the immigrants we have which barely balance it out.

I loved it when the government did that. Who cares if people who lived here a while are so likely to move to the US once they start making real money? All the low-level positions keep getting replaced by immigrants, there is no brain-drain!

Let me give you an idea of how bad it is, especially in the tech sector: Go to a computer science career fair at your local university, and take note of how many of those companies don't even operate in Canada.

	27-03-2003 08:39									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Who cares? There seems to be an endless supple of brainy Asian people who would love to come to Canada.

LOL
Thanks Agathon, I was just waiting for someone to try that one

	27-03-2003 08:40									#166
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 STYOM: Creationists don't spend all day trying to levitate. My point was how does one's belief in creationism going to affect the job that they do as PM?

I hear what you're saying... but if someone has a deeply held belief that - even if irrelevant to the PM job (and it might not be totally irrelevant, either) - flies in the face of reason, I would be inclined to question their ability to reason in other areas relevant to governing.

	27-03-2003 08:41									#167
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Even better, didn't he make an analogy about our brains going south like the water over Niagara does or something? Only he ****ed up on directions...

	27-03-2003 08:41									#168
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I guess it's time to start dropping the cluster bombs on Ottawa. *sigh* When will we Americans ever learn?

Perhaps after we deport the ignoramuses like yourself.

	27-03-2003 08:42									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You know, if you are just going to troll then you won't be taken seriously.

I really don't care if I'm taking seriously by people. My opinions won't change any Canadian's mind, that's part of the problem, you see.

quote: Canada isn't screwed politically; it's the political right in Canada that is screwed because they can't get their act together.

If an entire spectrum of your country is screwed, the country is screwed politiclally.

Canada is an elected dictatorship and the tyranny of the majority is simply an accepted thing among Canadians. I find it sad, Canadians find it normal. Maybe they just don't know any better.

	27-03-2003 08:42									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's not as simple as "well no one wants to invade us, so we don't need any protection!". Canada has committments to the UN and NATO for peacekeeping operations -- committments we can't, by and large, complete properly due to inadequate funding by the Liberal government.

You don't need a huge armed forces for that. UN peacekeepers are just lightly armed, I can't recall them having tanks, attack helicopters, and all those toys. It's not like they are expected to face an opposing army, they are just there to keep the rioters at bay. Hey, if Bangladesh can supply people to peacekeeping missions, I am sure Canada can too.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Not only that, but it's simply not a valid excuse to not have protection because you don't think you need it. I don't think I have to explain why.

If there is no need for said protection, why have it? It's much better to put the money in education and healthcare.

	27-03-2003 08:42									#171
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Is brain drain that different in Canada as in Europe ? Every brain-drained person I knew (beginning with my brother) came back home a few years after. Is that different for brain-drained Canadians ?

	27-03-2003 08:43									#172
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quote: Keep believing that. Hey, can you do me a favor? Try to rationalize it by taking into account all of the immigrants we have which barely balance it out.

Actually just our bilateral immigration rate in highly-trained professionals with the US is almost balanced. When you take into account the rest of the world we come out far ahead, not just "barely balanced".

For every "brain" that moves to the US from Canada there's something like 0.995 brains that move from the US to Canada, and 2 or 3 "brains" that move to Canada from the rest of the world...

	27-03-2003 08:45									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Is brain drain that different in Canada as in Europe ? Every brain-drained person I knew (beginning with my brother) came back home a few years after. Is that different for brain-drained Canadians ?

Some people leave and never return. Other people leave and return years later.

It is just part of the global economy and it has been going on for decades.

	27-03-2003 08:45									#174
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Don't fall into the trap of believing the old stories about the Forces. Things are improving and the Forces continue to do excellent work around the world.

Yes I realize that. 9/11 was something of a wake up call in that regard. And we do have good troops, who do a good job in their peacekeeping duites.

But as we can see now, with all the trouble spots that could use our help, we could still be doing more. I think it was you in fact that suggested we increase our forces to 120,000? I would agree with that. I don't really know how we're supposed to help out with the reconstruction in Iraq if we don't have anymore people to spare. I think we're down to just staff used for rotation to relieve the troops we have in the field now.

And we definitely need new helicopters!

	27-03-2003 08:45									#175
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quote: Originally posted by Asher LOL Thanks Agathon, I was just waiting for someone to try that one

It's worked in New Zealand. I don't see why it couldn't work here. Anyway Frogger is right, the brain drain is mostly a myth. Again, I would point out that Canada seems to be doing just fine given your claims of doom and gloom.

What really needs to be stopped is Canadians spending their working lives in the States and then retiring to Canada to take advantage of social services. Now that is a drain on the economy.

Anyway, you should go and live in the States, you're anti-Canadian.

	27-03-2003 08:46									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man And rightly so, considering that Ontario and Quebec account for about 2/3 of the country's population.

Correct. But with a government entirely decided there, you then are led to total disregard for some large issues in the other regions. That can have devastating effects, and if not changed will most likely lead to the eventual failure of the country to remain whole.

I don't wish it, but I can see it.

	27-03-2003 08:46									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Canada is an elected dictatorship and the tyranny of the majority is simply an accepted thing among Canadians. I find it sad, Canadians find it normal. Maybe they just don't know any better.

I agree, democracy is in some ways tyranny of the majority. By definition, at least half of the people in a society has median income or below. That's why you see social welfare is such a big thing in a democracy. It's like gravity, something you cannot avoid.

	27-03-2003 08:46									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You don't need a huge armed forces for that.

You need more than Canada has. Honestly, you do. It's a simple logistics problem that's widely known in Canada.

quote: UN peacekeepers are just lightly armed, I can't recall them having tanks, attack helicopters, and all those toys.

It's not only a question of armament, UR, why do you assume it is? It's a simple problem of not having enough soldiers in the first place, and then having antiquated equipment for them to use, if there's much at all.

BTW, haven't you seen those white UN tanks?

quote: If there is no need for said protection, why have it? It's much better to put the money in education and healthcare.

Because there's no way to guarantee you won't need it. Really, there's not. That's the problem.

Sure, you could risk it by abolishing your military like Canada is slowly doing, and trying to rely on the UNSC (lol) to do something about it, but that's not very good for a sovereign nation.

A sovereign nation should have a military capable of defending its borders. Simple as that.

I don't consider it valid at all to say Canada doesn't need one because no one would attack Canada. I think that's perhaps one of the dumbest things one could say, really.

	27-03-2003 08:47									#179
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quote: I hear what you're saying... but if someone has a deeply held belief that - even if irrelevant to the PM job (and it might not be totally irrelevant, either) - flies in the face of reason, I would be inclined to question their ability to reason in other areas relevant to governing.

STYOM:

That's a good point. However, you must remember that Stockwell will be working with a different set of assumptions.

Now here's where the interesting part comes from. In order to logically argue a position of creationism, one must make certain assumptions that are relevant to the performance of a PM. One of them being the importance of Scripture against the importance of science.

If Stockwell were to cut science education funding for more religous education, this would be one instance we should be concerned about his creationist beliefs.

	27-03-2003 08:47									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I really don't care if I'm taking seriously by people. My opinions won't change any Canadian's mind, that's part of the problem, you see.

You know you could change my mind if you cam up with better arguments. I'm sure there are lots of Canadians who are like me.

I want to see the right do better. It's bad for democracy to have one party rule. At the moment I think they are doing very badly. Now either they change or Canada changes and I know Canada isn't going to change much.