28-03-2003 18:19									#31
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I obviously understand that you cannot decide for someone else. But there is no effort made to distance from these islamist organizations. Mostly, these rallies are planned together, just like that enormous anti-war demonstration in London. "The muslim council of Britain" together with a group of socialist organizations.

Yes, let's cooperate with the religious fundies!

	28-03-2003 18:25									#32
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quote: There is always someone else to blame...

I can only say that by downplaying the role of Le Pen, you send a clear message. AND by downlplaying the role of Le Pen you forget all he has said and done for antisemitism and racism in France. Did you or did you not downplay the importance of Le Pen as a source of racism in France?

Now, someone mentioned bigotry?

	28-03-2003 18:28									#33
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The anti-French trolling here is extraordinarily disturbing. One hopes that decent Americans will act more agressively to show this type of behaviour can't be tolerated.

	28-03-2003 18:33									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel But there is no effort made to distance from these islamist organizations.

This is true and I understand your concern. As of now, I don't think the involved parties will change their ways, but all hope isn't dead yet. Time will tell.

quote: Mostly, these rallies are planned together, just like that enormous anti-war demonstration in London. "The muslim council of Britain" together with a group of socialist organizations.

I assume Saturnday's rally was planned by the big left-wing parties, ATTAC, and student organizations. The presence of Muslim extremists was too low for being part of the organization IMHO (about as big as Amnesty International), I assume they just ganged up with the rest of the demo.
If we have organized the protest with these people, then my party would deserve a big But I'm thinking we did not. I may be naive.

	28-03-2003 18:34									#35
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quote: Now, someone mentioned bigotry?

*I* did, dearest. you lumped all the jews into a single opinion, single pov, etc. Generalized on a national basis.

Even now, it seems that you confuse me with him.

	28-03-2003 18:39									#36
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Bah....

You can all have your Jean Marie Le Pen and go camping with him. I still think he's a piece of crap and the fact that 22% of French voters think he's a great chap sickens me. Even worse Jewish members of this community cannot see the wood from the trees. All they see are arabs....

Anti French trolls? This thread is about anti semitism in France. Ooooh, wait. thats the name of the thread too. This thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with the anti-french sentiment regarding the war in Iraq.

OVER AND OUT!

	28-03-2003 19:18									#37
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Oh, I´m always suprised what kind of statements is taken seriously here...

	28-03-2003 19:25									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel What worries and disturbs me is the willingness of the socialists to join forces with muslims, just to protest against America.

"Socialists" seem fairly popular at ACS.

Oh. And screw France.

	28-03-2003 19:32									#39
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Spiffor: Don't have time to respond right now, but thanks for responding to this thread(which I did not mean as a troll). You seem to be the rare European on this board who can actually discuss problems in their country and not simply say "Oh ya, well the evil Americans do this which is much worse, you slimy troll. "I most certainly hope the French can reinforce the Napoleonic tradition of tolerating Jews in their country.

	28-03-2003 19:43									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "Oh ya, well the evil Americans do this which is much worse, you slimy troll. "

Not that one said this here....

	28-03-2003 19:59									#41
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If it sucks so bad, move to Israel, that why it was set up.

	28-03-2003 20:10									#42
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Oh. And screw France.

You are competing with Tass to be the most easthetical troll, aren't you ?
BTW, I love that these smilies come from FFZ Should have guessed

	28-03-2003 20:15									#43
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BTW, I now realize I should write a disclaimer : not all the Muslim youth are antisemitic, nor all the white youth is anti-Arab. Both are growing trends, but do not concern the whole population. Besides, I don't know life in impoverished quarters, so I don't know to what extent this specific gangsta culture is implemented. Its dominance seems to be heavy, but not complete, from my perspective.

Lastly, the lack of integration of the Muslims in the French society is a big concern to be. It seems to be a logical explanation to the rise of antisemitism, but it is also possible I have exaggerated its role.
Don't forget my depictions are "educated opinions", they are not an absolute truth.

And Shi, for the sake of it :
"Sure we have antisemits. But you Yanks have hate crimes ! You should look at yourselves before criticizing the others "

	28-03-2003 20:46									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You are competing with Tass to be the most easthetical troll, aren't you ?

Actually, Tass is my buddy.
Don't agree for sh1t on politics, but at least he has good taste in cats.

	28-03-2003 21:19									#46
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The overall trends for France are disturbing, indeed. They are looking more and more like the next Nazi Germany. Anti-Americanism. Anti-Semitism. What they did in the UN to attack the US and the UK recently illustrates these trends dramatically.

While the article blames the anti-Semitism on the left, what the h*ll is Chirac?

Blair intends to "fix" things after the war is over. I doubt that he will be successful. I think it is high time that other European countries begin to openly criticize France to show their disapproval of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.

	28-03-2003 22:03									#47
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It occurs to me, that I don' recall a Frenchman in the forums.
Surely there are people in France who aren't partaking of massive amounts of whine and cheese, and scrounging scraps of white cloth.

	28-03-2003 22:11									#48
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I have a question: Why are Jewish and Muslims kids attending a catholic school anyway? Most people go out of their way to avoid confrontations.


It is sad when ones religion is attacked because of a national tie. This is one reason why theology suks.

I feel bad for the Jews always being attacked for the crimes of the world, always being the 'scapegoat, and always taking it (for what it's worth). IMO, Sharon is a great leader. Finally a Jew who will stand up and kick some butt for what he believes is right for his counrty and his religion... as wrong as some of his actions may be, I find it honorable, patriotic, and responsible... kind of like Bush.

	28-03-2003 22:14									#49
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Japher. What would you guess the majority of wars throughout history was over?

	28-03-2003 22:22									#50
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Land, Resources and Politics? Religion, IMO, has really been out of the picture in recent times. Granted that religion has lead to these wars, but not the cause.

I.e. American was formed as a haven from religionous persecution. The revolution occured not of the religious aspects, but the politics that spouted from it. Even though the nation was formed due to religion.

	28-03-2003 23:17									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The overall trends for France are disturbing, indeed. They are looking more and more like the next Nazi Germany. Anti-Americanism. Anti-Semitism. What they did in the UN to attack the US and the UK recently illustrates these trends dramatically.

Ned: This type of extreme hyperbole is not helpfull.

The increasing trend of anti-semitism is worrying without a doubt and the authorities have to do a better job at educating the public about it. May I point out though that if anti-semitism in france recieves so much attention is because the Jewish community in france is also the largest and most integrated in Europe at this time.

	29-03-2003 01:26									#52
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quote: Racism in France cuts both ways.

quote: Also, most of [Le Pen's] racist propaganda is oriented towards the Blacks and the Arabs, his tales of Jewish conspiracies are well hidden of the general public and are broadcasted only on the Parisian facist radio.

quote: But the krux of the problem isn't the media at large, it is the specific messages the Muslim youth gets : gangsta culture, Islamists, and first of all, their peers, all of this builds a counter-culture in which antisemitism seems to be a new part.

Spiffor, I feel sorry for you.

	29-03-2003 01:57									#53
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The increasing trend of anti-semitism is worrying without a doubt.

Yes it is. But also, the increasing trend to anti-Americanism is also disturbing. Blair has made it clear that unless this is fixed, it could tear Europe apart.

The analogy to Nazi Germany was made because of its virulent racism and nationalism. Doesn't that describe the trends in France?

	29-03-2003 02:12									#54
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2/10, but only because such anti-French attitude is relatively fresh to me.

	29-03-2003 02:35									#55
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quote: You dont blame him for this?

Do you blame Pat Buchanan for anti-Mexican feelings in the US? Come on!

Personally, I don't feel that France is any more racist than the US or UK or Germany.

	29-03-2003 03:03									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Yes it is. But also, the increasing trend to anti-Americanism is also disturbing. Blair has made it clear that unless this is fixed, it could tear Europe apart. The analogy to Nazi Germany was made because of its virulent racism and nationalism. Doesn't that describe the trends in France?

No. About 1000 anti-semitic incident reported (all incidents, including graffiti) and the French HR organizations are calling alarms as well. As for rampant nationalism: I fail to see the "nationalism" in France being more rampant that what is happening in the US: whens the last time you heard of some pro-Israel artist in France having their work burned in rallies organized by the Media? But it did happen here in the US. (Dixie chicks) As for ramapnt anti-Americanism: besides the usual anti-McDonalds attacks by anti-globalists, I don't see the French renaming foods, or French officials say how our "the Americans are no longer allies (Perle)" or famous members of the media calling the Americans our "enemies" (Bill O'Reilly).

It is important for the French to better educate the population and specially among Arab youths in ghettos. BUt to make any sort of annalogy to nazism is just incorrect.

As for what Blair thinks: This admin. has payed to attention to European interest in general: why would Europe reciprocate? I think chirac might have gone too far, but the US is the one that set the ball rolling, and I see no one in this amdin. doing anyting to fix that. what's the last time the admin. called the French? For God's sake, our oldest ally, and we don't even call them for months? Yes, very profesional in our part: certainly, this admin. want sto keep trans-atantic ties strong

	29-03-2003 03:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Actually, Tass is my buddy. Don't agree for sh1t on politics, but at least he has good taste in cats.

Good taste in cats?

Anyone with good taste in the first place would rather have a dog.

	29-03-2003 03:25									#58
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quote: Anyone with good taste in the first place would rather have a dog.

Says the man with no taste .

	29-03-2003 03:38									#59
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I prefer the taste of dogs over cats, easily. Dogs are simply more yummy, and I dislike them more, when alive.

	29-03-2003 04:12									#60
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GePap, I simply do not agree that growing French nationalism is solely due to George Bush.

In the book, Band of Brothers, the author describes the resentment and hostiltiy of the French to Americans during the Summer and Fall of 1944. It was almost as if they viewed Americans as conquerors rather than as liberators.

Since then, deGaul conducted an anglo-phobic, highly nationalistic foreign policy. His successors maintained that same policy. But now, Chirac has adopted an openly hostile anti-American policy, not so much, it is said, because he is anti-war, but because he wants to set up France as an "independent," hostile, anti-US power.

This is an historical trend, not something new.

Ditto the France's historical anti-Semitism. I am not surprised at all that the average Frenchman stands asside allows the Muslim immigrants to beat up a Jewish kid. Is there anyone here on this forum genuinely surprised at this?

We all know where the combination of nationalism and racism leads, do we not? We fought the "fascists" in Japan and Germany and Italy in the 1940's. We may have to do it again. That is a snake that will not die, it appears.