11-04-2003 17:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Any objections if I move our three regular warriors into Tempest and upgrade them to swords so they can go after Vox's vet spear if he threatens to pillage a road?

Makes sense. We should have the money for the upgrade by now.

	11-04-2003 17:47									#32
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If we switch Sufa, we have two galleys next turn.

	11-04-2003 17:55									#33
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Right now we have three vet swords, a regular sword, and a regular warrior in Hurricane. Now that one of Vox's immortals is dealt with and we're a turn closer to finishing the Pyramids, I'm inclined to send two of the vet swords toward Arashi. If Vox comes at us with as much as we're afraid they might, we'll need everything we can get on that front.

	11-04-2003 17:57									#34
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Theseus, do you have an opinion on whether to risk an uninjured vet WC to protect our wounded elite or whether to save our vets and hope our elite's better retreat odds can save it?

	11-04-2003 18:04									#35
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We also need to decide whether we want to go ahead and use our settler to found our other desert city. We'd risk losing the settler if Vox decides to attack there, but even then, a purpose would be served since we'd presumably buy a little time.

I'm thinking go ahead and put a spear on the mountain by Arashi and move our spear from Sandstorm into Arashi. I'm also thinking leave the two remaining vet WCs where they are unless we want one of them to cover our new elite, and move our third vet WC to the same tile.

	11-04-2003 18:09									#36
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I'm in favor of founding another desert city. We need to buy time, and time is much more valuable than a settler at the moment.

I'm off shopping with the wife, back in about 90 minutes.

	11-04-2003 18:12									#37
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One more thought: We probably may as well leave Hack where he is for another turn or two as long as Vox isn't threatening him with immortals.

	11-04-2003 18:44									#38
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Yeah, we should found the desert city. If it slows down Vox for one turn that could make all the difference.

	11-04-2003 19:00									#39
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On the "protect the elite" issue...

I could go either way on that one. Either way, we risk losing 1 unit. The only difference is the quality of that unit, and the response time of that unit (I'll explain).

If we lose the elite, that hurts, because of the obvious leader generation ability it has. If we lose a vet, we keep the elite, but it's beat up, and will need to retreat, wait in a city for a turn, and only then will it be back to full strength for battle.

If we are confident we are not under full-blown assault and can spare the healing time (which I think we can), I would say we should protect the elite.

-Arrian

	11-04-2003 19:03									#40
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Wow guys, this is moving so fast that I can hardly keep up! Way to go!

	11-04-2003 19:12									#41
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Imagine teams opening their save,
" rumors have reached us the egyptians have build the pyramids"

Teams going auch
next message
" rumors have reach us, the egyptians have buil The Great Library" (or something else )

	11-04-2003 19:12									#42
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I just realized that if we move in a vet to protect the elite, we can only have one uninjured WC in a position to attack the immortal next turn, while if we don't, we'll have three. If we have only one unit where our elite is, the immortal's victory (either killing our WC or driving it off) will put it in range of the tile our WCs are on now (which is the limit of our western WC's travel). But if we move in a second WC, the immortal stays where he is regardless, so the only uninjured WC that could attack him would be the one that's already on the correct side of the river and doesn't move in to risk death in our elite WC's place.

	11-04-2003 19:18									#43
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Good catch Nathan.

	11-04-2003 19:32									#44
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Hrm. Good point. I guess we let our elite live or die as he may.

-Arrian

	11-04-2003 19:46									#45
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good job guys, luck was on our side this time

	11-04-2003 20:03									#46
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I think it's time to see what the others have been doing research-wise and decide what to research next.
Edit: or we may want to suspend research for a while in order to rush some aqueducts to celebrate our GA, perhaps?

	11-04-2003 20:29									#47
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I think we should hoard cash while researching Chivalry at a low rate... so we can pump out WCs & Horsemen (depending on shield output in different cities) and then have the cash to do a significant upgrade.

I have a question on gameplay/ethics/etc:

Is cutting one's own resource supply in order to drop back to a lower-shield-cost unit and then reconnecting for an upgrade beyond the Pale?

I'm not saying we would want to do it in this case, given where the iron is and how many worker turns are required to fix that tile if we break it, but what about in the future?

-Arrian

	11-04-2003 20:32									#48
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I say that is perfectly fair. I've done it a few times in SP games and certainly didn't think I was cheating.

	11-04-2003 20:36									#49
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I don't see any ethical problems with that. If it's possible in-game and is not a cheat / undocumented feature, then it's fine by me.

Btw, now that we've triggered our GA, we can no longer build WCs, if I'm not mistaken.

	11-04-2003 20:41									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Btw, now that we've triggered our GA, we can no longer build WCs, if I'm not mistaken.

I think we still can ... but I don't play the game much anymore so I can't be 100% ...if I had the password to the save I'd go and check.

	11-04-2003 21:17									#51
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AFAIK, UUs can be built even though they're obsolete as long as you haven't triggered your GA, so that you would be able to trigger it using the UU. However, once it's been triggered, you can no longer build your UU if it's obsolete.

	11-04-2003 21:41									#52
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WCs do not upgrade to horsemen; they upgrade straight to knights so we can keep building them until we get Chivalry.

We have a deal lined up with GoW for Chivalry if we want to go through with it, so I think we're better off not trying to research it ourselves. And in any case, gold for an aqueduct in Tempest (not to mention to upgrade all our swords and spears) will be our first priority once we get Feudalism.

	11-04-2003 22:19									#53
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Ok, didn't know about the Chivalry deal with GoW.

-Arrian

	11-04-2003 22:46									#54
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay WCs do not upgrade to horsemen; they upgrade straight to knights so we can keep building them until we get Chivalry.

Cool, that's a relief.

	11-04-2003 23:01									#55
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Great! So we're already in our GA.
From now on, please take the turn a bit slower, it's speeding along too fast.

military: I object to any moving of WCs farther from the road. One tile is no problem, it can return in time, and the 2 tiles for the GA victory was certainly a good deal. But, our defenses are too thin, we shouldn't spread out our WCs now, let's keep them within reach of Arashi.

Tech: Do we really need Feud asap? If so, go ahead researching it at 90%, otherwise save cash, and go for 3 turns. I'm going to post a message to Legoland and RP telling that the tech is coming, and asking whether they still want it, knowing that we are the only ones having it.

Settler: wasn't that settler going to be added to EotS to get to 30 shields faster? That would currently do us better then building a new city, which would only gain a little more commerce in GA. If not needed, any city is nice

military: are we able to crank out a few more swords instead of WCs before we discover Feud? 10 gold is nothing, but 10 shields count. Also, is there a plan yet on how we are going to build units, do we have an idea how many units we will have access to the next 5 or so turns?

pillaging our iron: the problem is not the iron source, it's the mine we need. So, we could do it for a very limited time, by placing enough workers on the mountain, which can start to mine the moment a warrior pillages the improvements. Doing so, we should be able to build 10 more warriors extremely quickly, and a couple of spears. But maybe we're not going to need it, with the information GoW will be giving to us.

Screenshots: certainly don't forward the turn before we get the screenies. I don't think much will change in our plans, but it would be great to see what's going on, and be able to start discussing that before our next turn arrives.

Last request: could you attach a F3 screenshot (on units, of course, not cities) please? It would be cool to see what we have. I know, you can see this from the screenshot, but simply as a memory later

DeepO

	11-04-2003 23:04									#56
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Hurricane: even if we would know the 2 immortals are removed, we can't give up our defenses there. That galley can return easily to the iron colony, load a couple of fresh immortals, and sail back to Hurricane. That would only take it 1 more turn...

DeepO

	11-04-2003 23:09									#57
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Oh, and Pyramids: I would indeed start now, it would more make the rest of the teams wonder whether we got a leader or not to rush it

Is anone interested in writing some historic story, where we build the pyramids in Grog's name, and start celebrating a great feast in his honor? I would post such story the moment we send forward the turn in which we switched to the pyramids. We could do it now, in the spirit of fun instead of professionallism, because if we really want to be paranoid to the end, we should wait one more turn before switching.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 23:19									#58
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I want Feudalism quickly so we can upgrade our swords to medieval infantry and our spears to pikes. With that plus barracks and city walls, we have a very real chance of holding Arashi if Vox comes with the kind of huge force we think they might. Without that, there is a significantly greater danger that Arashi would fall before the reinforcements we'd delay Feudalism to let us build could get there.

If we leave Vox's remaining eastern immortal alone, we need two more swordsmen (soon to be medieval infantry) in Hurricane at least than we do if we take him out. Using WCs to free up swordsmen seems worthwhile to me. And while a victorious WC ends up two tiles from the road, any that might retreat in earlier battles end up only one from the road, so we'd only be leaving one WC out of range to get to a barracks the turn after the attack.

	11-04-2003 23:22									#59
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Hurricane: even if we would know the 2 immortals are removed, we can't give up our defenses there. That galley can return easily to the iron colony, load a couple of fresh immortals, and sail back to Hurricane. That would only take it 1 more turn...

I'm not suggesting that we stop defending Hurricane; just that with new production available so soon and the threat reduced, we can reduce the size of its defense. Having five units including our only three veteran swords tied up around Hurricane while we're fighting for Arashi's life could be very costly.

	11-04-2003 23:25									#60
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I can't write a story in time for this turn, but I could for next one if we want to wait another turn to do the switch.

I need to get to work now. I'll be back to finish playing around 8:00 P.M. Apolyton time. Please discuss the issues I've raised between now and then so we'll be ready to wrap things up as quickly as is practical.

Nathan