26-04-2003 05:00									#1
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* We have a Great Leader!!!!!

* What do we want to do with him?

* An army is a viable option.

* Many would prefer to rush a Wonder. Sun Tzu's is getting lots of support.

This issue is too important for the discussion to just be in the chatroom.

If we decide on an Army we can use it this turn, so we should try and talk about this right now.

Your thoughts please?

	26-04-2003 05:03									#2
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Nah, I don't want an army, Sun Tsu is to good to pass on

but it is an option... a defensive army would certainly make our defense in Hurricane easier

DeepO

	26-04-2003 05:03									#3
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Do we have a city in which we can spare a turn of war production to build a wonder?

Do we have 2 fast movers spare to put in the army? How does that help us?

	26-04-2003 05:04									#4
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If we'd do an army right now, I'd want it to be pure medieval infantry. We don't have three med infs to put in it at the moment, and I'd hate risking an army in combat with just two regulars.

	26-04-2003 05:04									#5
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Defensive army? Do we have the spare units?

	26-04-2003 05:05									#6
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But I like Sun Tsu's better - probably in Cyclone (build a worker this turn and rush Sun Tsu's next turn).

	26-04-2003 05:05									#7
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If we go for an army, I think we need a mixed one. 1 vet med inf, 2 pikes. Attack with the med inf, then move the army next to Hurricane

Problem is we don't have time to build the HE, but maybe we don't need that, we could put Hurricane aside for the HE, if we can properly defend.

I don't like it, but it is an option...

DeepO

	26-04-2003 05:06									#8
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Sun Tzu's would mean that the 2 Gally cities can build Vet Pikes. Might come in verrrrry handy. Could decide the war.

	26-04-2003 05:06									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Nah, I don't want an army, Sun Tsu is to good to pass on

Sorry about that. I've edited the first post.

	26-04-2003 05:06									#10
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I'm with nathan here

	26-04-2003 05:07									#11
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I like the Cyclone option... can we get there in time with our leader?

DeepO

	26-04-2003 05:07									#12
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Sun Tzu's is a "nice to have" and an even better "nice to deny to GoW".

An offensive (3 WCs) or mixed (2 MedInfs, 1 pike) army would be my second choice, but I'm afraid we don't have units to spare and as Nathan pointed out in the chatroom, we don't have a good city to build the HE at the moment.

So the wonder gets my vote.

Under no circumstances should we keep the leader. It's to be used either this or next turn.

	26-04-2003 05:07									#13
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I wouldn't dare use a 1 med. inf., 2 pike army offensively because it would be too likely to die once the pikes start having to attack. (Unless I completely misunderstand how things work.)

	26-04-2003 05:07									#14
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay But I like Sun Tsu's better - probably in Cyclone (build a worker this turn and rush Sun Tsu's next turn).

Can we get Ramses to Cyclone in 2 turns? It's a lot of tiles away....

	26-04-2003 05:07									#15
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I think OB is a good spot for a wonder. The borders expand to give us access to the Whale, it's got no production right now, with GoW's Horsemen gone it's pretty much safe, no hills/mountains that can be landed on by it, and the Leader can make it there and rush this turn.

	26-04-2003 05:10									#16
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I like Aesons plan.

	26-04-2003 05:10									#17
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We could build ST in Cyclone.

	26-04-2003 05:10									#18
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I vote Sun Tzu's.
I'm an efficiency freak, and building some sort of an army now, winning and getting the Heroic Epic as soon as possible to increase our chances of getting additional leaders in this war has some appeal to me. However, I don't think this is really the time to build the HE; we don't want to build the Colossus right now, and getting it many turns earlier is a great benefit and earns us a lot of gold - so why do we consider building the HE?
Also, our options for an army are limited, and they also limit our coverage.
My vote goes to Sun Tzu's. City: preferably not coastal, and down south (so one turn of prod. isn't critical); Cyclone is a good choice.

	26-04-2003 05:11									#19
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Can we get Ramses to Cyclone in 2 turns? It's a lot of tiles away....

it will end it's turn in the city (cylone)

GL=3movement points

	26-04-2003 05:11									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I think OB is a good spot for a wonder. The borders expand to give us access to the Whale, it's got no production right now, with GoW's Horsemen gone it's pretty much safe, no hills/mountains that can be landed on by it, and the Leader can make it there and rush this turn.

OG is a very strong candidate for a write off if things do not go well.

	26-04-2003 05:12									#21
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How many movement points does a Leader have?

/edit: Sorry, I didn't see that this had already been answered. Damn cross-posting. Thanks for the answer.

	26-04-2003 05:12									#22
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Agree on OB.

But again, can anyone say for sure how much MPs a leader has? I thought 2 at this point, meaning we can only rush a wonder in OB next turn.

DeepO

	26-04-2003 05:12									#23
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Can we move him the full 3 and get the rush order from within the city display? Can someone test that quickly on a scenario or some such?

	26-04-2003 05:13									#24
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Leaders have a base movement of three, letting them move nine on roads. He'd actually be in Cyclone at the end of this turn; just not with any movement left to do the rushing.

	26-04-2003 05:13									#25
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3 movement... on roads that's 9

	26-04-2003 05:15									#26
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Agree on OB. But again, can anyone say for sure how much MPs a leader has? I thought 2 at this point, meaning we can only rush a wonder in OB next turn. DeepO

3.

A wonder built this turn in haste, but lost ten turns hense, is a large waste compared to a Wonder built where it is safe, and we are out of the game if lost.

Worse, if OG fell to Vox, they would be able to rush vets on our doorstep.

	26-04-2003 05:15									#27
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How about Bolderberg then? We lose the same amount of production as we would in Cyclone (from a practical standpoint), but can rush it this turn.

	26-04-2003 05:15									#28
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So we can rush it in OB right now? that would mean we can disband our barracks, giving us enough gold for 2 upgrades, instead of 1.

I don't think OB is a write-off candidate, if Vox gets that far, we're doomed anyway

DeepO

	26-04-2003 05:16									#29
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I strongly support Sun Tsu's... It will help us defend, produce universal vets at least for this war. As we march on VOX, we can be assured that each new city will have a barracks to heal our troops... and it will deny Gow the pleasure.

But an Army... for the heroic epic.... tempting, but not urgent..


Mss

	26-04-2003 05:16									#30
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So we can rush in Cyclone next turn, right?
I don't mind that all much. Sure, we lose any chances for GLs during Vox's turn, but how many will there actually be? Plus, the chances of generating a GL on a defensive battle (without the HE) are 1/24 (compared to 1/16 on the offense).